An Open Letter to Mel

[tsth]

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. 3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9 And they made His grave with the wicked-- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

[serotta]

I think it is a very human thing to need to place blame. But IMO, this thread comes down to semantics. Who bears the RESPONSIBILITY for Christ's crucifixion? Every human. Who were the TOOLS used to bring it about? This is where you can point fingers at Caiaphas, at Judas, at a portion of the Sanhedrin, at Pilate and Herod. These people were all tools to carry out what was predestined. Jesus knew what was coming and willingly went along with it. He could have stopped it and did not. Is anyone here going to say that Jesus is to blame for his own crucifixion? I think this is something we all need to get past.

[JesusisGod2]

Just to kick the discussion issue up a notch!

" And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, Behold we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the Chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death. And shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify Him: and the third day He shall rise again. " Matt. 20:17-19.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Great post! This has been a very interesting debate here, I have yet to find anyone who is really wrong.

I think that everyone has brought forth pieces of the truth, just from different perspective.

I too have something that I would like to add that will kick it in another gear. I have read where it was the Jewish leaders who have hardened the hearts of the Jews, which is in part, of the truth, but it is God who hardened the hearts of the leaders.

"What then? what Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, But those who were chosen obtained it, the rest were hardened" Rom 11:7

"Just as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not, ears to hear not..." Rom 11:8

This was all necessary for our salvation, which by the way, Christ said is of the Jews.

[nebula]

I had posted this on a separate thread. I have the urge to repeat it here. (Noted that others above me made similar points. Cool!)

Here are parts of it:

Some of the villains in this movie are Jewish, but so is the greatest hero in the movie, and in all of eternity. God came to us as a Jew! Not only was Christ Himself Jewish, the apostles, prophets, and everyone who wrote that which is now canon Scripture were Jews. All of those who were the greatest heroes in biblical history were Jewish.

Abraham was promised that his descendents would be a blessing to all of the families on the face of the earth. And they, the Jewish people, have been the greatest blessing to all of the families on the face of the earth. We all owe the Jewish people more than we owe any other race, culture, or people group on the planet.

We also need to understand that the Jewish people have been even more persecuted by Christians than any other religion

[JesusisGod2]

I had posted this on a separate thread.  I have the urge to repeat it here.  (Noted that others above me made similar points.  Cool!)

The same spirit that sought to destroy Christ is so intent on destroying the Jewish people because he knows the destiny of the Jewish people at the end. They will not only embrace Christ but will become the

[Guest Katy]

we are ALL responsible for jesus' death. he died to take on the sins of the WORLD as a whole, not just one race.

as far as the whole antisemitisim or however you spell it goes, the romans were the ones who crucified christ, the romans beat him and nailed him

(interesting fact: in "the passion" mel gibson's hand is either the one nailing him or the one beating him i'm not sure which, symbolizing the guilt of us all)

[Guest idolsmasher]

Scripting the Scriptures

The Disputation

By David Klinghoffer

Jewish officialdom

[Guest yod]

Lemme see if I am reading you correctly..

Are you saying that Jesus was crucified AFTER He was stoned to death? Are you saying the Romans had nothing to do with it based on some supposedly hidden passage that had been edited out of the Talmud????

[Guest idolsmasher]

Not me, that's what the Talmud says. I believe one of the versions still includes it.

[Guest yod]

do you believe that?