Involuntary Servitude

[Openly Curious]

Just go. Play with someone else's head. I'm not playing anymore.

[Grungekid]

I hope you didn't mind me using you for an example. To me, it is nice to see that there are still some people who hold to traditional values.

And of course, that would mean she gave her consent.

[sheya joie]

I hope you didn't mind me using you for an example. To me, it is nice to see that there are still some people who hold to traditional values.

And of course, that would mean she gave her consent.

Not that it is any of your business Grungekid, but I wasn't revealing secret information. She had posted that information in another thread, which is how I knew about it. I also didn't mention her name, but once she posted in this thread, it became obvious who it was. Anything posted here at Worthy is available for anyone to go back and talk about, including things I posted. Nobody has to give permission.

Exactly. I didn't mind Butero mentioning this at all. I had in fact posted it openly in another thread, and considered posting the information again in this thread. I hadn't posted it here because I only have a short time to be online each day. But since Butero brought it up - yeah, that was me.

Hi y'all!

[Grungekid]

I hope you didn't mind me using you for an example. To me, it is nice to see that there are still some people who hold to traditional values.

And of course, that would mean she gave her consent.

Not that it is any of your business Grungekid, but I wasn't revealing secret information. She had posted that information in another thread, which is how I knew about it. I also didn't mention her name, but once she posted in this thread, it became obvious who it was. Anything posted here at Worthy is available for anyone to go back and talk about, including things I posted. Nobody has to give permission.

Why so defensive? I didn't want to know about anything, I don't know where you got off thinking I was asking. I was simply pointing out the fact that said person would have to give consent to those vows, and that they could not be labelled as 'involuntary servitude'.

[sheya joie]

I hope you didn't mind me using you for an example. To me, it is nice to see that there are still some people who hold to traditional values.

And of course, that would mean she gave her consent.

Not that it is any of your business Grungekid, but I wasn't revealing secret information. She had posted that information in another thread, which is how I knew about it. I also didn't mention her name, but once she posted in this thread, it became obvious who it was. Anything posted here at Worthy is available for anyone to go back and talk about, including things I posted. Nobody has to give permission.

Why so defensive? I didn't want to know about anything, I don't know where you got off thinking I was asking. I was simply pointing out the fact that said person would have to give consent to those vows, and that they could not be labelled as 'involuntary servitude'.

Well then I apologize Grungekid for the misunderstanding. That was not how it came across when I read it. Sometimes a completely innocent comment can be misconstrued, and it appears that is what happened.

Ah, now I get it! The comment above came across to me also as being a rebuke to Butero for making reference to me (that is, that Butero should have gotten permission from me before using me as an example).

Now that I understand that 'And of course, that would mean she gave her consent' refers to me consenting to the marriage vows including the word 'obey' - then, yes, I did consent to obey, so my submission in marriage was not involuntary servitude.

Surely, though, I am not the only woman who went into marriage with such an attitude?

[Grungekid]

Well then I apologize Grungekid for the misunderstanding. That was not how it came across when I read it. Sometimes a completely innocent comment can be misconstrued, and it appears that is what happened.

Ah, now I get it! The comment above came across to me also as being a rebuke to Butero for making reference to me (that is, that Butero should have gotten permission from me before using me as an example).

Now that I understand that 'And of course, that would mean she gave her consent' refers to me consenting to the marriage vows including the word 'obey' - then, yes, I did consent to obey, so my submission in marriage was not involuntary servitude.

Surely, though, I am not the only woman who went into marriage with such an attitude?

Its alright, that's my fault - I should have specified.

[damo1]

from damo1

the way i see what waa said to the christians in the time paul and the others wear walking the earth they said that you are to obey the law of the land as long as it does not contradict to the laws that god gives us to abide by while we are living on this earth he also tell us to pray for those in authority roles

no where does it say in the bible that we as christians while living on this earth to disobey the laws off the land we are to up hold these laws and take also what it says in gods word and learn to live in harmony in the countrys that we are settled in be good citazens no matter how one might disagree with how they feel about the laws that are passed for us citazens to abide by

now coming to what some have been talking on weather wifes should be submissive or weather paul was picking on the women in his time by saying that men should be the head of each house hold it says this in colossians to what the role of the husband is

Rules for christian House holds

colossians 3

18 wives submit to your husbands as is fitting in the lord

19 husbands love your wives and do not be harsh on them

20 children obey your parents in everything this pleases the lord

21 fathers do not embitter your children or they will become discouraged

23 slaves obey your earthly masters in everything and do it not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor but witth sincerity of heart and reverance for the lord

23 what ever you do work at it with all your heart as working for the lord and not for men

colossians 2

6 so then just as you received christ jesus as lord continue to live in him

7 rooted and built up in him strengthened in the faith as you wear taught and overflowing with thankfulness

8 see to it that no one tales you captive through hollow and deceptive philosphy which depends on human traditions

and the basic principals of this world rather than on christ

9 for in christ all the fullness of the diety lives in bodily form

10 and you have been given fullness in christ who is the head of every power and authority

now coming to what most have been arguing on i have also seen this in christian marraiges wear the women is more stronger than the male as living in the real world women are know having more rights than they ever have they have the right to do what a man can do in the work force and that means serving our country also in the milatery and police force and today a women can even run the country if she is elected

but in countrys like israel and in afganistan and some other parts of the world women do not have these rights as the old law is still practiced in these countrys wear the women have not got the same freedom as our women do not just in your country but also in Australian

in the other countrys i mentioned it is hard for a women to get an education as in some parts of afganistan and pakistan and sudi arabia women are not given the same rights as men are they are to be submisive to their husbands and do what ever their husbands tell them and if they step out of line or question their husband they get beaten up i have seen this threw the people i have gotten to know throw my father when we came to this country as those old laws have been bought in by those group of people who practice this in their own countrys and even though australia does not abide by this or these laws and gives our women the freedom to go about as they please these other women have to obey their husbands

in most muslim country a women can not even go no wear with out a male book into a motel with out a male this is how hard it is for some of our sisters in these countrys

even though us men are meant to be the head of our house holds god gives us rules to follow and abide by but as i said the role of the man as the head of his house hold in the real world is not respected as it is in these other countrys instead the women is the head of her house hold because she does everything from looking after the kids to feeding the kids to keeping the house clean and prepering meals for the day and then even brings in the daily wage its as if men have wimped out from their ordained roles and left it up to the women as to not rock the boat and i know many christian men that do this they do not want to rock the boat due to not having their wives walk out on them as we depend to much on our women and our wives and our partners for those that are single

so this is how i see what most have been arguing on we live in a world that wil not be able to go by gods laws no matter what one will say on the laws that are passed on us to abide by

we just have to put up with it and do as to serving the lord

[Guest Biblicist]

I like these verses as well...

1 Peter 2:18-3:7

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 "He committed no sin,

and no deceit was found in his mouth." 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

I believe that the phrase "in the same way" needs to be paid close attention to. My dearest friend, who is married to an unbeliever [He is close to salvation, having meetings and counseling with their pastor ] and she has done a great deal of studying and soul searching about submission to an unsaved husband. She pointed this out to me yesterday and I wanted to share. [bTW this is the NIV translation, the book of Peter was written by Peter...obviously ]