What day of the week should we go to church on?

[chin]

every day is the LORD"S day! why limit GOD to one day of worship! jim

[patricia1]

Shalom,

And, as Believers in Messiah, the Gentiles are now JOINED with Israel. Some Christians try to deny that, but it's Scriptural:

Galatians 3:

29And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring,heirs according to promise.

Romans 11

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

We may be joined to Israel in a spiritual sense and heirs to God's spiritual promises, but we are not joined with them in an OT physical covenant sense. No where is the NT church commanded to observe the OT Sabbath. I know this is how you believe, but I simply cannot agree with you.

I do agree that the church is the body that is why i put down not forsake the assembling of ourselves.

Cobalt I do disagree somewhat with you. I say somewhat because I understand exactly what you are saying... But is there not a difference between spiritual and physical israel? I will explain my question... I am not hebrew... My parents are not Jewish and yet we all stemmed from the noahic and mosaic covenants and being drafted in I am adopted into the family. Just hope you understand my question... My blood is gentile but my heart is not. Maybe Vickilynn can help me understand ..shes good at this stuff. Before I knew what a christian was when any body asked me my religious beliefs I would just say I follow the God of abraham, Jacob and Issac. lol I had a one on one Salvation and know church teaching until later.

As Vicki states we are all family and no insult I believe has been taken.. this all is normal stuff.. learning from each other and sharing new things...

[Redefine_Me]

As Vicki states we are all family and no insult I believe has been taken.. this all is normal stuff.. learning from each other and sharing new things...

Amen

I don't know if I can put this into word or not, and I can already tell I need to study in God's word more about this, but I have always thought we were all (meaning Gentiles) accepted into the promises that were originally for the Isrealites. That Christ opened the plan to all, not just the chosen people. That, in essense, we are all now the children of Isreal. It was all, of course, part of God's plan all along - and we can see that it was God's plan throughout Biblical history. Christ is descended from Abraham, Issac.... etc. direct lineage from the Isrealites, and he gave us all what was originally promised to them - that we are all heirs of his promises. We are all interconnected. I don't know if I'm expressing this well or not (so I'm guessing NOT lol).

[Vickilynn]

I know this is how you believe, but I simply cannot agree with you.

Shalom Cobalt,

Hey, that's fine, I simply can't agree with you either! I still love you in Yeshua!

And yes, it is EXACTLY how I believe and I believe the Scriptures support that. But, you know, it's not a matter of salvation, so we each have to seek the L-rd for what we should do.

[Vickilynn]

As Vicki states we are all family and no insult I believe has been taken.. this all is normal stuff.. learning from each other and sharing new things...

Amen

I don't know if I can put this into word or not, and I can already tell I need to study in God's word more about this, but I have always thought we were all (meaning Gentiles) accepted into the promises that were originally for the Isrealites. That Christ opened the plan to all, not just the chosen people. That, in essense, we are all now the children of Isreal. It was all, of course, part of God's plan all along - and we can see that it was God's plan throughout Biblical history. Christ is descended from Abraham, Issac.... etc. direct lineage from the Isrealites, and he gave us all what was originally promised to them - that we are all heirs of his promises. We are all interconnected. I don't know if I'm expressing this well or not (so I'm guessing NOT lol).

Shalom Anne,

YES. You expressed that very well. Gentiles are not literal Israel, but JOINED with Israel, literal, physical and fellow heirs to the promises of Israel. We, (the church) are adopted into G-d's family, previously reserved only for the Jews. This is GOOD news and in this we should rejoice!

The Bible says that in Yeshua there is now no difference between Jew and Gentile, we are all ONE in Messiah.

So, yes, the Sabbath is a gift to G-d's people, Jew and Gentile. For those that wish to receive it.

[PreciousRubi]

As Vicki states we are all family and no insult I believe has been taken.. this all is normal stuff.. learning from each other and sharing new things...

Amen

I don't know if I can put this into word or not, and I can already tell I need to study in God's word more about this, but I have always thought we were all (meaning Gentiles) accepted into the promises that were originally for the Isrealites. That Christ opened the plan to all, not just the chosen people. That, in essense, we are all now the children of Isreal. It was all, of course, part of God's plan all along - and we can see that it was God's plan throughout Biblical history. Christ is descended from Abraham, Issac.... etc. direct lineage from the Isrealites, and he gave us all what was originally promised to them - that we are all heirs of his promises. We are all interconnected. I don't know if I'm expressing this well or not (so I'm guessing NOT lol).

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

[Celtic Warrior]

Well Warrior, I would suggest that you read Timothy 3:14-17. I quoted it for you. To sum it up, it says all Scripture, that is Old Testament Scripture, for there was no New Testament at this time, is to be used for rebuke, reproof, correction and instruction in Righteousness, not just a few verses in Paul, taken out of context which seem to say what you wish they said.

Well yes, I have read that and disagree with your interpretation and misuse of the passage. Of course the Scriptures are every bit of what Paul said, but NOT in the manner of proving that the Old Covenant still has validity. The Old Covenant of Sinai was a teacher, to show us what Sin is and how we CANNOT keep the Law of God, even the modified and stripped down moral code version given to the Israelites at Sinai, AND IT WAS TO LEAD TO CHRIST as the only one who could perfectly keep the Law of God

The context of Paul is that no one can be justified by the law, because it condemns, not gives life. It does not say that the person who is justified doesn't keep God's law. I suggest you read all of what Paul says about the law, before you go to war with God and His law.

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2:14 For when the Gentiles (converts) ave not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, .......

Above Paul talks about no difference between Jew or Gentile, and then tells about the Gentile converts who have the New Covenant experience spoken of in Hebrews, the laws of God written in the heart. Here is the Verse:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

It seem that Paul understood the New Covenant and that the change was where the laws were written. When one has God's laws written in the heart, he doesn't need them written in stone.

Again, misleading. The problem is that you (and others defending your position) see every occurance of the word LAW as meaning the Sinai Covenant and/or the Ten Commandments, which is far from the Truth. You claim Abraham kept those laws, yet Paul himself says that those laws weren't given until 430 years AFTER the promise made to Abraham, in other words, LONG AFTER he, Isaac, Jacob, the 12 sons of Jacob were all dead and buried. They couldn't possibly be under them because they weren't given as laws and a covenant yet.

You also neglect to see that Paul talks of TWO LAWS, one that is the Law of Death (2 Cor 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone), on tablets of Stone (2 Cor 3:3 i.e. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS), that are obsolete (Heb 8:13), came 430 years afterward (Gal 3:17) (after what? THE PROMISE TO ABRAHAM) And Paul talks of the Law of Liberty, the RIGHTEOUS LAW OF GOD. The Righteous Law of God CANNOT LEAD TO DEATH, so it cannot be the Letter that Kills (2 Cor 3:6). Sinai and the Ten Commandments CANNOT be the Perfect Law of God because they weren't even instituted until the Exodus!!!

Abraham was counted Righteous because of FAITH, not Righteous deeds or Law following, and as to whatever commands Cain and Abel followed the Bible is silent.

However, if you wish to believe that Sinai is the Perfect Law of God, then you are obligated to follow every rule, ritual, holy day, precept, etc in it, and your Righteousness will be based on performance, not faith.

I could go on and on, but this should make the point. I realize that you have only been taught that the law was done away with. Maybe you should broaden your study and not depend on man so much to tell you what Paul means. Paul is very good at saying what He means. Jesus is even better at saying what He means, and He said nothing would pass from the law until heaven and earth pass away. That is pretty clear my friend.

I get my teachings from the Bible, and once believed as you do, but for the Grace of God my eyes have now shed the Veil of the Temple and I see and understand Scripture MUCH more than I did then. You also are misquoting Jesus with that last 'quote' which I've already addressed. If nothing has passed from the law, then you are bound to follow the MOSIAC CODE EXACTLY, for THAT IS THE LAW that Jesus is addressing. That means keeping Kosher, wearing clothes of ONE fabric, eating non hybrid foods, going to the Temple, letting the LEVITE High Priest interceed for you, and all the other rules and rituals of the Mosiac Law. Either Jesus DID FULFILL the Law and ushered in a New Covenant, or He didn't!!! If He did, then ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED and that passage is being misused by you and others of your belief, or He didn't and there is NO HOPE FOR ANY OF US!!!

What IS CLEAR is that there are many who cannot accept GRACE and GRACE ALONE. FAITH ALONE, GRACE ALONE, CHRIST ALONE!!! No other path leads to heaven... PERIOD!!! Too many think there has to be something MORE, something HUMANLY ACHIEVED. That is where the Error is. It is NEVER about what WE DO, it's ALL ABOUT WHAT JESUS DOES!!!

And NO, I'm not saying the Law of God is done away, I'm saying what Paul repeats over and over and over again, the Old Covenant was fulfilled in Jesus and is OBSOLETE IN IT'S ENTIRETY and is now replaced COMPLETELY with the New Covenant based on Faith and GRACE.

Blessings and I hope we can keep this in the spirit of friendly debate, but Scripture is PLAIN and Clear. Yes the Moral Code still has it's value, yes the Scriptures are valid for teaching and correction, etc, but they DO NOT take us back to the Tablets of Stone, they point us toward Christ

As Jesus said to the Jews (and is THE clarification of Tim 3:14-17)

John 5:38 - 40 (ESV) 38and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. 39You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

[Celtic Warrior]

As Vicki states we are all family and no insult I believe has been taken.. this all is normal stuff.. learning from each other and sharing new things...

Amen

I don't know if I can put this into word or not, and I can already tell I need to study in God's word more about this, but I have always thought we were all (meaning Gentiles) accepted into the promises that were originally for the Isrealites. That Christ opened the plan to all, not just the chosen people. That, in essense, we are all now the children of Isreal. It was all, of course, part of God's plan all along - and we can see that it was God's plan throughout Biblical history. Christ is descended from Abraham, Issac.... etc. direct lineage from the Isrealites, and he gave us all what was originally promised to them - that we are all heirs of his promises. We are all interconnected. I don't know if I'm expressing this well or not (so I'm guessing NOT lol).

We are all adopted into the Promises made to ABRAHAM, NOT the Nation of Israel. The 'real' Jews were given promises and a Covenant based on those promises as well, but had they rejected the Sinai Covenant they would still have been "The Chosen People", the Seed of Abraham. Christ is the Promise given to Abraham for ALL HUMANITY. We become Children of Abraham, adopted as it were, but still Gentiles and still outside of the National Promises made to the 12 Tribes. Christians are Christians, be they Jew, Greek, Roman, gentile or whatever, but Jews will always be Jews and Gentiles can only become Jews by following the Mosaic Code, and, I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that Christians can NEVER truly become Jews because they would have to forsake Christ to return to the Old Covenant promises. Jews can become Christians, but they must accept that Christ supercedes and replaces the Mosaic Law, and that is their stumbling block.

[BlazeEagle]

every day is the LORD"S day! why limit GOD to one day of worship! jim

I'll add this to what you say -

How can there be a day of zero work to exclusively worship? To elaborate, here are a few brief examples -

Changing a babies diaper is work, taking your dog out to be pee is "work", so is cleaning the tub after a bath. ETC., ETC. Those are things that must be done, even on a Holy day of rest. I know this is awfully bare bones literal but this is what I wonder.

[PreciousRubi]

Jews can become Christians, but they must accept that Christ supercedes and replaces the Mosaic Law, and that is their stumbling block.

If this is the case...then how does a Jew get around this small glitch in the law...?

Exodus 31:16

Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.