What day of the week should we go to church on?

[Yahsway]

Shabbat Shalom to everyone here. I must go to work now. I am a nurse, I have to work every other weekend. I have enjoyed the study.

[Vickilynn]

Cobalt was referring to evasiveness of their answers and unwilingness to give a straight answer to a simple question.

Shalom Shiloh,

Your accusation of "evasiveness" and "unwillingness to give a straight answer" are false accusations and are also uncalled for.

Again, grace should be evident here, not hostility and accusing and judging people's heart motives.

[Vickilynn]

Shabbat Shalom to everyone here. I must go to work now. I am a nurse, I have to work every other weekend. I have enjoyed the study.

Shabbat Shalom!

Have a blessed day at work! There is much more to the study that is helpful to the Believer in Messiah. Please overlook the comments and we can continue the study.

[Smalcald]

Brother Shiloh,

QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Nov 10 2007, 11:27 PM)

So a person who does not keep the Sabbath day does not really love God? The whole Church is living in transgression and sin because they don't keep the Sabbath on Saturday?

I would suggest that you read the Scriptures, for that is what they Scriptures say, 'If you love me keep you will keep my Commandments' for the wages for breaking them, transgressing them is death. There are many true christians who have been deceived by their leaders. I was one of them. Yet God tells us to repent and change when we learn the truth.

It is not the whole church. I know many who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus and most of them are Gentiles save by grace through faith with the law of God written in their hearts, not on tables of stone. It is true that it is most of the denominational churches. Why should that be a surprise to you. God warned us of a 'falling away'. If you need a previous example, just look to the Jewish church of Jesus time. The entire church structure, conservative Pharisees and liberal Sadducee's united in the rejection of the Messiah. Only a remnant of Israel remained true to God, but not the church structure. Yet they could not be convinced and continued on with their religion not knowing that God had cast them off as a nation.

The surprising thing is that you find the concept so incredulous. Paul thought so too, until God was able to get his attention on the road to Damascus. He had to deal with the fact that the whole religious structure had gone into delusion save a remnant of true believers. He was for a time deceived, but when he saw the light, he changed. Yet he never kept the Pagan day of the Sun that all the idolaters were doing around him and he never taught anyone else to do so. That is an indisputable fact of Scripture and history.

SmallCald,

God says to keep it holy. Worship is a part of holiness. You can't separate worship and obedience from holiness, you may but God doesn't.

God Bless,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

You know in general I enjoy your posts.

However on this issue we will have to part ways. I base what I do or try to imperfectly as I am a sinner dead in trespasses, on scripture. I don't think we need to guess how God told the Nation of Israel to observe the Sabbath. It is right here in Exodus:

8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Nothing about gathering to worship.

10 "For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops, 11 but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.

12 "Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.

13 "Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

Again nothing about worship, although obviously worship is not prohibited, but is not the main point of the Sabbath.

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. [a]

14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.' "

18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

Finally this sums up the law as set forth in Exodus from God through Moses to the people of Israel. It seems to me that you are choosing to change the law as set forth above to meet our modern needs, yet claim to follow only this particular law.

The fact is this law was given to the Nation of Israel. The fact is the first churches in the New Testament worshipped every day. The Jews among those first worshippers did indeed keep the Sabbath; the gentiles did not yet all worshipped together every day. Paul instructed gentile believers not to be coerced into this sort of observance.

But going to Church on Saturday is not observing the Sabbath as shown in Exodus. I think it is honoring the Sabbath as Vicky has shown. I think for those who want to worship on Saturday she has the correct attitude about it. But don

[Guest]

FOR GOD

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3"16

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18

SOME CRY

Some Cry Heresy! Heresy!

"Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place." Acts 21:28

Some Cry Mercy! Mercy!

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

"Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." Luke 10:36-37

Some Cry The Law! The Law!

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:35-40

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

Some Cry Grace! Grace!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

Some Say My Way! My Way!

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6

Some Say The Way! The Way!

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

Some Add Some Subtract

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." John 19:30

Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31

The Name Above All Names

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:" Philippians 2:9

HEAR! HEAR! The Master's Voice

Abide

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

In Love

"These things I command you, that ye love one another." John 15:17

Unto Him That Is Able Amen!

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 1:24-25

BOND SLAVES

Weep For The Lost

"They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him." Psalms 126:5-6

And Pray For Family

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." Ephesians 3:14-21

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Celtic Warrior]

Shalom CW,

Oh yeah, and for that matter, why are you spelling God as G-d????

For reverence.

Are you so afraid of a LOVING GOD that you can't use His name????

Hmmmm, judgment of a Believer's heart. This is sin. You don't know, so you make up an answer? Shame shame!

cPlease explain!!!

I don't respond to bullying.

Are you Christian or bound up in the LAW????

Again, not the right thing to say since you don't know.

If you ever sincerely ask without yelling and bullying, I might answer.

My Apologies for having written words you found offense in. That was never my intent. I was not aware that my phrasings would come across as yelling or bullying and I am sincerely sorry they did come across that way.

I would like to understand better your use of the spelling G-d as reverence for God. It does confuse me why you would be concerned about such when Jesus tells us to call Him Abba, Father? I am including some definitions here, hopefully to illustrate a point, but forgive me if it comes across wrong.

The New Bible Dictionary, Third Edition: Abba

ABBA. An Aramaic word, in the emphatic state, meaning

[Vickilynn]

I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why you would use G-d when God Himself tells us to call Him Abba, Father (or more familiarly; Dad, Daddy, Papa). He wants a personal relationship built on Love and respect, not fear. No, I'm not trying to put down your use, I just don't understand it.

Shalom Celtic,

Not that it's on topic for this thread, but it is a common question and you DID ask nicely.

Thank you for your gracious post and apology.

Remember, "G-d" is not His name.

Remember, G-d supersedes language.

Remember English is not His first language.

Remember, G-d knows our heart, He needs no words. We worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, not in words.

Remember, one Believer must never judge another's personal relationship with G-d.

"Abba" means Father yes. And I DO call Him "Father." So, your points on Abba don't really relate since we both call the Father, "Father". However, the term "G-d' is one of recognition of His power and all that He is, in His TRIUnity.

You have wrongly assumed that I "fear" G-d (in the way that you describe, as in afraid of) and that my referencing G-d as I do indicates that I don't love Him intimately. You couldn't be more wrong.

There are several reasons why I write as I do, one of them is utter reverence and honor for the Almighty. Of course, as I said, "G-d" is not His Name, I hope you know that. Our names mean a great deal, as does G-d's. It reflects His character. Most Jews do not use the Almighty's name or even a reference to Him casually. And no, I don't call Him "papa", but if you do, that's between you and He. I would never question what how you related to G-d.

Personally though, it bothers me when I hear some Christian's "casual" reference to the Holy Almighty G-d. He deserves supreme honor. He is not our "buddy" or "homeboy" or anything of the sort that I hear people say. He is holy and His name is holy!

So, #1 is that I REVERENCE all references to G-d.

#2. I do not wish to offend those Jews who write G-d without the vowels when I share the Gospel with them. Paul said that if we wish to win those under the Law, we should come to them, as under the Law so as not to cause offense. You see, if they are offended by how I DELIVER the message, they will not HEAR the message. It is an act of consideration to those who I am ministering to. How I wish more Christians had a heart to deliver the message to the lost and dying in a way that the people would listen to. Instead, so many Christians disregard these verses below:

1 Corinthians 9

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21To those outside the law I became(AD) as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

This may help you understand the history of why this is done:

http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH). It is often referred to as the Ineffable Name, the Unutterable Name or the Distinctive Name. Linguistically, it is related to the Hebrew root Hei-Yod-Hei (to be), and reflects the fact that God's existence is eternal. In scripture, this Name is used when discussing God's relation with human beings, and when emphasizing his qualities of lovingkindness and mercy. It is frequently shortened to Yah (Yod-Hei), Yahu or Yeho (Yod-Hei-Vav), especially when used in combination with names or phrases, as in Yehoshua (Joshua, meaning "the Lord is my Salvation"), Eliyahu (Elijah, meaning "my God is the Lord"), and Halleluyah ("praise the Lord").

The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Rambam, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God).

God is also known as El Shaddai. This Name is usually translated as "God Almighty," however, the derivation of the word "Shaddai" is not known. According to some views, it is derived from the root meaning "to heap benefits." According a Midrash, it means, "The One who said 'dai'" ("dai" meaning enough or sufficient) and comes from the fact that when God created the universe, it expanded until He said "DAI!" (perhaps the first recorded theory of an expanding universe?). The name Shaddai is the one written on the mezuzah scroll. Some note that Shaddai is an acronym of Shomer Daltot Yisrael, Guardian of the Doors of Israel.

Another significant Name of God is YHVH Tzva'ot. This Name is normally translated as "Lord of Hosts." The word "tzva'ot" means "hosts" in the sense of a military grouping or an organized array. The Name refers to God's leadership and sovereignty. Interestingly, this Name is rarely used in scripture. It never appears in the Torah (i.e., the first five books). It appears primarily in the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi, as well as many times in the Psalms.

Writing the Name of God

Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood").

Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.

The commandment not to erase or deface the name of God comes from Deut. 12:3. In that passage, the people are commanded that when they take over the promised land, they should destroy all things related to the idolatrous religions of that region, and should utterly destroy the names of the local deities. Immediately afterwards, we are commanded not to do the same to our God. From this, the rabbis inferred that we are commanded not to destroy any holy thing, and not to erase or deface a Name of God.

It is worth noting that this prohibition against erasing or defacing Names of God applies only to Names that are written in some kind of permanent form, and recent rabbinical decisions have held that writing on a computer is not a permanent form, thus it is not a violation to type God's Name into a computer and then backspace over it or cut and paste it, or copy and delete files with God's Name in them. However, once you print the document out, it becomes a permanent form. That is why observant Jews avoid writing a Name of God on web sites like this one or in newsgroup messages: because there is a risk that someone else will print it out and deface it.

Normally, we avoid writing the Name by substituting letters or syllables, for example, writing "G-d" instead of "God." In addition, the number 15, which would ordinarily be written in Hebrew as Yod-Hei (10-5), is normally written as Teit-Vav (9-6), because Yod-Hei is a Name. See Hebrew Alphabet for more information about using letters as numerals.

[Guest]

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why you would use G-d when God Himself tells us to call Him Abba, Father (or more familiarly; Dad, Daddy, Papa). He wants a personal relationship built on Love and respect, not fear. No, I'm not trying to put down your use, I just don't understand it.

Dear Brother

Writing G-d Out Of Love And Respect For God Does Not Imply Abba Father Is Not Spoken When Our Sister Prays.

"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;" Ephesians 5:19

No More Than Saying "No, I'm Not Trying To Put Down Your Use" Means The Intention Was To Shower Our Sister With Esteem.

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Philippians 2:3

The Prayer Life Of This Sister Is Really None Of Our Business Unless She Chooses To Share.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."Matthew 6:6

Insinuating That A Daughter Of The KING Does Not Have A Loving Relationship With Her Heavenly Father Is Just Silly.

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." Romans 14:4

One Of The Reasons Some Folk Will Not Chance The Destruction Of Written Names Of God Can Be Found In Holy Writ.

"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.

Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God." Deuteronomy 12:2-4

Brother

Should We Should Ever Be So Blessed As To Directly Minister To The LORD's Beloved Israel

It Would Be A Charitable And Wise Choice For Us To Write God As G-d

Also It Would Be A Kind And Wise Choice For Us To Abstain From Slopping Down Pickled Pigs Feet As We Fellowship With Them.

"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." Romans 14:21

By The By Dear Brother

Worthy Is Read By Jew And Gentle Alike

When We Post At Worthy, Our Posts Are Often Read As Letters Of Introduction To Our Lord.

"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." 2 Corinthians 5:20

Thank You For Bearing With Me.

You Are Loved And Esteemed.

Post Early, Post Often.

Post With Love.

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING OF THE JEWS

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Pilgrim7]

Smalcald,

Thanks for you response. I enjoy your posts also and you seem to genuinely love the Lord. I see you as my brother in the Lord. I have no problem if you disagree with me. That is not the point. It is whether we agree with the Lord.

Now as to your first point:

You say that the Sabbath was not for worship, but for rest. Why then did the Jews go to the temple if not to worship? That would require exertion and disturb their rest. I am not being facetious here. They had ceased, which is what the word means, from thier secular duties for what reason? So they could now focus all their attention to thier Holy Lord, on His Holy Day, in the pursuit of holiness. I believe the Jews knew that they were going to the temple or synagogue for worship of God, not to rest.

Now as to Scriptural support:

Jer 26:2 Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

Now when did they come to the Lords house:

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the Sabbaths and in the new moons.

Here again God connects worship and the Sabbath throughout all eternity:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now if Jesus fulfilled it and we don't need the Sabbath anymore, why in God's name would it continue in the new earth forever and ever. If we don't need it here, then we certainly don't need it there. When we are with Jesus himself whom everyone seems to say that He is our Sabbath rest. Here again it would seem what God makes Holy remains Holy forever.

Thus the Word of God definitely says that Sabbath is for worship. I agree that we can worship at any time, which I do, but you see God set aside a full day to be kept holy, for group worship and individual holiness. That doesn't mean that one can't gather at any time and worship God, but when it does away with Worship that God has ordained, then God says that it is a problem.

Scriptural support:

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do. (this is a general principle that applies to all God's commandments)

7:9 And he said to them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

Now I ask you, in the presence of the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth, is the Sabbath a commandment of God or of man? Now again I ask you, is Sunday a commandment of God or of man?

History demonstrates most clearly that it was a commandment of man, Constantine's law of 321 AD. in which he states that it is for the veneration of the Sun God, not the Lord. This commandment of man is now tradition which is so entrenched that not many will even check it out to see what the truth is, but cling to what their religious teachers tell them.

Now if God is right, and I think He is, then there is a gigantic problem here.

Your next point:

You refer to Colossians 2 where Paul says not to let man judge you in meats and drinks etc.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (the correct translation is feast days), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The whole context of the passage is ceremonial, not moral. The Ten Commandments are moral in nature. If you look at the ceremonial feasts, which were shadows of Christ, you will see that they contained ceremonial sabbaths, not related to the Holy Sabbath of God, which was always the 7th day of the week. These ceremonial Sabbaths could fall on any day of the week. They were a shadow of Christ, which He fulfilled. Yet when one appears, His shadow is still with him.

I agree with Paul, man is not to judge us, determine for us, what we are to do, the word is to judge us, show us what to do. Now I ask you what does the word say about the Sabbath day, but to keep it holy and as shown above that included worship: Thus the word has judged us. Now as to man judging us as to Sabbath keeping, it was Constantine who judged those who keep Sunday for he enacted a law to enforce it and exacted penalties for not keeping his law. Now if that is not judging people about the Sabbath, I don't know what is. Here we have a law that is directly against God's law, and that is OK? That is righteousness? That is honoring God, or is it honoring man. At this time he was not even a 'professing christian' but a Pagan Emperor, practicing High Priest of Roman Pagan Sun Worship. The language in His law states that he made the law in honor of 'the venerable day of the Sun' So much for the traditions of man. I will supply the appropriate Historical references next post.

Remember the words of James, to offend in one point, makes one guilty of all.

God Bless you Brother,

Dennis

[Smalcald]

Smalcald,

Thanks for you response. I enjoy your posts also and you seem to genuinely love the Lord. I see you as my brother in the Lord. I have no problem if you disagree with me. That is not the point. It is whether we agree with the Lord.

Now as to your first point:

You say that the Sabbath was not for worship, but for rest. Why then did the Jews go to the temple if not to worship? That would require exertion and disturb their rest. I am not being facetious here. They had ceased, which is what the word means, from thier secular duties for what reason? So they could now focus all their attention to thier Holy Lord, on His Holy Day, in the pursuit of holiness. I believe the Jews knew that they were going to the temple or synagogue for worship of God, not to rest.

Now as to Scriptural support:

Jer 26:2 Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

Now when did they come to the Lords house:

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the Sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

Eze 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the Sabbaths and in the new moons.

Here again God connects worship and the Sabbath throughout all eternity:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now if Jesus fulfilled it and we don't need the Sabbath anymore, why in God's name would it continue in the new earth forever and ever. If we don't need it here, then we certainly don't need it there. When we are with Jesus himself whom everyone seems to say that He is our Sabbath rest. Here again it would seem what God makes Holy remains Holy forever.

Thus the Word of God definitely says that Sabbath is for worship. I agree that we can worship at any time, which I do, but you see God set aside a full day to be kept holy, for group worship and individual holiness. That doesn't mean that one can't gather at any time and worship God, but when it does away with Worship that God has ordained, then God says that it is a problem.

Scriptural support:

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do. (this is a general principle that applies to all God's commandments)

7:9 And he said to them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.

Now I ask you, in the presence of the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth, is the Sabbath a commandment of God or of man? Now again I ask you, is Sunday a commandment of God or of man?

History demonstrates most clearly that it was a commandment of man, Constantine's law of 321 AD. in which he states that it is for the veneration of the Sun God, not the Lord. This commandment of man is now tradition which is so entrenched that not many will even check it out to see what the truth is, but cling to what their religious teachers tell them.

Now if God is right, and I think He is, then there is a gigantic problem here.

Your next point:

You refer to Colossians 2 where Paul says not to let man judge you in meats and drinks etc.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (the correct translation is feast days), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The whole context of the passage is ceremonial, not moral. The Ten Commandments are moral in nature. If you look at the ceremonial feasts, which were shadows of Christ, you will see that they contained ceremonial sabbaths, not related to the Holy Sabbath of God, which was always the 7th day of the week. These ceremonial Sabbaths could fall on any day of the week. They were a shadow of Christ, which He fulfilled. Yet when one appears, His shadow is still with him.

I agree with Paul, man is not to judge us, determine for us, what we are to do, the word is to judge us, show us what to do. Now I ask you what does the word say about the Sabbath day, but to keep it holy and as shown above that included worship: Thus the word has judged us. Now as to man judging us as to Sabbath keeping, it was Constantine who judged those who keep Sunday for he enacted a law to enforce it and exacted penalties for not keeping his law. Now if that is not judging people about the Sabbath, I don't know what is. Here we have a law that is directly against God's law, and that is OK? That is righteousness? That is honoring God, or is it honoring man. At this time he was not even a 'professing christian' but a Pagan Emperor, practicing High Priest of Roman Pagan Sun Worship. The language in His law states that he made the law in honor of 'the venerable day of the Sun' So much for the traditions of man. I will supply the appropriate Historical references next post.

Remember the words of James, to offend in one point, makes one guilty of all.

God Bless you Brother,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I could go over each of those one by one. But I am not sure this is the way to go I think we are both pretty set in our ways on this issue. I am convinced in my mind and I know you are convinced in yours.

I will simply say that I agree with your take on Col. and this is the reason I do not observe a Sabbath rest on Saturday, but that Christ is this rest, and He is the rest from and into eternity.

The whole context of the passage is ceremonial, not moral. The Ten Commandments are moral in nature. If you look at the ceremonial feasts, which were shadows of Christ, you will see that they contained ceremonial Sabbaths, not related to the Holy Sabbath of God, which was always the 7th day of the week. These ceremonial Sabbaths could fall on any day of the week. They were a shadow of Christ, which He fulfilled. Yet when one appears, His shadow is still with him.

Notice that Ezekiel 46:3 also speaks of New Moons and Sabbaths; this is what Paul is referring to in Col. The ten commandments stand as a moral law for us because Christ in the Gospel brought them out, which ones did He specifically mention and show us how to follow, all of them are indeed mentioned, with the exception of the ritual of Sabbath observance.

But I see your points and we can all I think see that this is a complex area.