Trinity or Oneness?

[AnotherTraveler]

coequal...

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here

Matt 12:41-42 (KJV)

Jesus was greater than Jonah and Solomon. Agreed?

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:28 (KJV)

The Father is greater than Jesus. Agreed? Probably not, and from both camps. The trinity camp says coequal. The oneness camp says the Father and Jesus are the same one, leaving the greatness/lesserthan question unanswered.

The bible is right, even if we can't easily figure it out.

[damo1]

damo1

to owings as eagles

no paul did not teach on oneness and paul also belived in true son ship which you owings as eagles said in one of your posts you do not belive in true son ship

i have been going over this in the bible and later wil come back to prove you are wrong wear is your facts by saying paul taught one ness when i see paul was very aware and he taught timothy the correct way

Paul did indeed teach oneness and no he did not teach eternal sonship,and next time have your facts straight b4 you speak,not after.

I have already shown what Paul taught Timothy read post #211

damo1

to ownigs

i have got my facts right thank you very much you are the one that needs to stop forcing your one ness down peoples throats i am trying my hardest hear i think i know what i am talking about do you want me to find what you said to one person on eternal son ship ? '

you said you do not belive in this so how is it that this can be taught by others when you said this was taught when the disciples passed away i have read the bible know for over 18 yrs owings as eagles and every time i read the bible i learn something new

are you even going to deny then un on belief when i gave out the verses to what pauls says on beleiving in jesus do not tick me of i am trying so hard to see wear you are coming from

please keep your one ness to your self and do not question wear i get my answers from

god bless from damo

[Kansasdad]

Why would Jesus call God Father?Because Jesus was a man trinitarians try and use this logic to prove he was not the Father.But you have a delima of your own.

If Jesus was God the Son co-equal to the Father why would he need to pray at all you pray to some one above you or mightier than you,you need not to pray if you are co-equal to the God you are praying to.

The reason Jesus prayed is because he was human.so trinitarians questioning of why did he need to pray to the Father if he was the Father can be asked to them.Why would he need to pray to God if he was God,same question same answer.Therefore your so called point is mute.

No, the problem is that you fail to understand that Jesus was fully human, and fully God. In your realm Jesus is fully human with the Spirit of God living inside of him. The problem your little idea creates is now you just opened up the idea that we all can be Jesus. Fully Human with the Spirit of God dwelling inside. One heresy leads to another to another.

The question is answered by Jesus himself. Jesus who is fully God speaks to God the Father as a distinct God head. The only way you can deny this is to claim that Jesus was not fully God.

[damo1]

damo1

to owings as eagles

no paul did not teach on oneness and paul also belived in true son ship which you owings as eagles said in one of your posts you do not belive in true son ship

i have been going over this in the bible and later wil come back to prove you are wrong wear is your facts by saying paul taught one ness when i see paul was very aware and he taught timothy the correct way

Paul did indeed teach oneness and no he did not teach eternal sonship,and next time have your facts straight b4 you speak,not after.

I have already shown what Paul taught Timothy read post #211

damo1

to ownigs

i have got my facts right thank you very much you are the one that needs to stop forcing your one ness down peoples throats i am trying my hardest hear i think i know what i am talking about do you want me to find what you said to one person on eternal son ship ? '

you said you do not belive in this so how is it that this can be taught by others when you said this was taught when the disciples passed away i have read the bible know for over 18 yrs owings as eagles and every time i read the bible i learn something new

are you even going to deny then un on belief when i gave out the verses to what pauls says on beleiving in jesus do not tick me of i am trying so hard to see wear you are coming from

please keep your one ness to your self and do not question wear i get my answers from

god bless from damo

I am not forcing any thing down any ones throught just explain the truth and having an interesting conversation with others.

I presume, when someone says, "whether or not I agree with you", that that means that they do not.

Just so it is clear, whether anyone agrees with me or not, is of little concern. I would ask of people though, when they read my posts or anyone else's posts, if a good case was presented, to ask yourself WHY is it not agreed with.

For some, it is because there is a better case made to believe something different. When that happens, that is super! For some though, they will not accept an idea, because it does not agree with an opinion they heard elsewhere, from their pastor perhaps. For others, an idea may seem uncommon, unconventional, just not in the majority. Is truth best determined by majorities, or by examining facts? Others still, believe or disbelieve an idea, depending on how appealing it is to them, they attempt to feel they way to a conclusion, is that the best way?

Each person, is accountable for how they themselves, handle God's word. When you come across ideas, sort it out methodically, and come to the best conclusion you can. I always invite people to be skeptical about anything I say or write, but I also encourage them to be open and dilligent - to search the scriptures daily, to see if these things are so.

You see you can believe whatever you want it makes no difference to me but you should allow others to talk with out you coming in every now and then ruining our convo.

damo1

to owings

so if you say you understand on acounatbility why is it that your presume i am jumping in on this when i too should be able to have aay

on this so if you know what is going to hapen on judgment day when we all face god do you dare to question others on how they see this yes you are shoving your one nes down peoples throat i can not see how you are trying to have a normal conversation owings

you need to alow others to have a say with out thinking i am the one that needs to pul my head in i said i want to walk in unity and learn yet you show no respect at all in matters such as this

god bles from damo

[Kansasdad]

Hebrews:1, 6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him. 7 And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: and the works of thy hands are the heavens.

Here we see God is talking about Jesus the Human on earth who was in the beginning. Jesus was fully human, and fully God, adored by the Angles.

Here God brings the first begotten into the world, his first begotten who founded the earth, his First begotten who's works are in heaven. His first begotten who was in the beginning.

[damo1]

damo1

to owings as eagles

no paul did not teach on oneness and paul also belived in true son ship which you owings as eagles said in one of your posts you do not belive in true son ship

i have been going over this in the bible and later wil come back to prove you are wrong wear is your facts by saying paul taught one ness when i see paul was very aware and he taught timothy the correct way

Paul did indeed teach oneness and no he did not teach eternal sonship,and next time have your facts straight b4 you speak,not after.

I have already shown what Paul taught Timothy read post #211

damo1

to ownigs

i have got my facts right thank you very much you are the one that needs to stop forcing your one ness down peoples throats i am trying my hardest hear i think i know what i am talking about do you want me to find what you said to one person on eternal son ship ? '

you said you do not belive in this so how is it that this can be taught by others when you said this was taught when the disciples passed away i have read the bible know for over 18 yrs owings as eagles and every time i read the bible i learn something new

are you even going to deny then un on belief when i gave out the verses to what pauls says on beleiving in jesus do not tick me of i am trying so hard to see wear you are coming from

please keep your one ness to your self and do not question wear i get my answers from

god bless from damo

I am not forcing any thing down any ones throught just explain the truth and having an interesting conversation with others.

I presume, when someone says, "whether or not I agree with you", that that means that they do not.

Just so it is clear, whether anyone agrees with me or not, is of little concern. I would ask of people though, when they read my posts or anyone else's posts, if a good case was presented, to ask yourself WHY is it not agreed with.

For some, it is because there is a better case made to believe something different. When that happens, that is super! For some though, they will not accept an idea, because it does not agree with an opinion they heard elsewhere, from their pastor perhaps. For others, an idea may seem uncommon, unconventional, just not in the majority. Is truth best determined by majorities, or by examining facts? Others still, believe or disbelieve an idea, depending on how appealing it is to them, they attempt to feel they way to a conclusion, is that the best way?

Each person, is accountable for how they themselves, handle God's word. When you come across ideas, sort it out methodically, and come to the best conclusion you can. I always invite people to be skeptical about anything I say or write, but I also encourage them to be open and dilligent - to search the scriptures daily, to see if these things are so.

You see you can believe whatever you want it makes no difference to me but you should allow others to talk with out you coming in every now and then ruining our convo.

damo1

to owings

so if you say you understand on acounatbility why is it that your presume i am jumping in on this when i too should be able to have aay

You have the same rights as everyone else,the problem is though you have a lot to say you are actually saying nothing, atleast not any thing of substance.

damo1

to owings as eagles

one i just got back from helping a friend move point two i have only had 4 hrs sleep when i responded to you last

i just got home now it is saturday after noon and i am going over this thread word for word to what has been said and also to your responce left for me

you say i have a lot to say and you also said what i have to say on this i am saying nothing atleast on anything of substance

helo are you trying to correct me or some how get me to look at what i have so far been loking into on my own terms and not on what is said on this from those with ba or dr in theology

how can this be a healty conversation owings when you do not hear others out by the way the person i helped moved was one of my leaders in my church and this man knows gods word and i was told to tel you to get your facts right

how is it you feel that you are the only one hear that has the right to say be heard on this subject have you got a dr in theology ?

i can be skepitcal and so far i am being very skeptical to what your stance is on this subject and what you some how feel is truth

i have been reading gods word for over 18yrs nearly going on to 20yrs i take my time to read what is said in a post and then i respond if i have nothing to say i wil not make such harsh state ments by saying i have al the answers

so you just want to talk to like minded souls that belive in what you hold so close to your heart wel good for you i hope you find like minded souls to talk to on this subject that is being talked about know in this thread

even though i have only had 4hrs sleep i am stil willing to respond to you

i am also with in my own rights to have a say on this subject and i wil not have one view forced down my throat because some oned decided to write his own doctrine on trinity or one ness

which by the way does not match up to how i understand this for my self and when i say for my self i say i am speaking on what i have so far been digging into

i have an open mind when it comes to topics like this i also have a teach able spirit and i dare not ignore what is said in front of me if i know nothing i ask for wisdom and the wisdom is given so i can under stand what i am looking at

you must be a brave man to take such a stance as this to wear you wil almost say no matter what any one else says

i wil go by what i have in front of me and how i under stand gods word

how does this help those that want to talk on this subject ?

i am very fair i hear people out but i am not going to change my views because one man says he has al the answers by me seeing this and hearing this it shows me that you should be also very aware if you miss lead any one down a wrong path and tel some one who has not heard the gopel preached for the first time to belive in you you my friend are treading on very thin line

i wil hear you out but i am saying to you on this thread i am also going to be very skeptical when it comes to what you have to say

i am very tired and i am know going to send my partner an email whom i have been in prayer al night and half the morning to see weather the floods in her country have dropped to wear people at least can walk on dry ground in stead of walking in near deep water

if you decide to respond i would sugest that you keep what you wil or might say to your self i wil only respond to some one who has an open and honest heart when it comes to matters like this

please do not ever question me i want to be involved in this topic with out you saying i should be skeptical and see this your way as i said i wil be skeptical when it comes to what you have to say

god bless

from damo

[damo1]

Well, you two seem to have totally destroyed this thread with your personal bickering......... good work.....

Good greif....

Damo can we not get back to this point please,debate the subject not me,Thank you,I hope you can accomidate us all and speak on trinity verses oneness and not directly to me about whatever it is your are saying to me.PLEASE and THANK YOU.

damo1

this is know going to be reported to the mods and i am going to ask one of the mods of worthy to talk to you i have been in comunication with one mod who has been responding to me in brothely love

i am with in my rights i have been saying all along i want to be involved but i wil not put up with this i wil also ask the mod i have been talking to to keep an eye on what you say never ever throw what another one left i now very wel what another one left

and this goes for you too owings as eagles you say i have proved your point good

this is going to be reported as to me it feel that you are puling this your way and only alow sevral to respond i am even going to pm the responce i left for you so the mod i have been talking to can see

that i am keeping my promise

this is going to be my last warning to you on this

from your brother in the lord damien

[Mutzrein]

Hi Damo

It seems to me that onwingsaseagles has been pretty consistent about his desire to debate the OP - rather than answer issues which seem unrelated.

May I suggest that if there is a side issue that you see arising from this thread that you start another one. I for one would be pleased have input.

The Lord bless you

[Mutzrein]

Seems like we have a 3rd opinion here is God 3 in 1(trinity)or his he 1 unipersonal God (oneness) now a 3rd opinion,that God actually 3 separate gods(polytheism)

From damos response to livnwater if we do not all agree this very second that God is actually 3 separate gods then we much be ignoring gods word.

Curious I did not know there were christians who subscribed to this belief.

I've just been reading over some past posts and came across this - in fact I missed quite a bit of what was said during the week. Put it down to work - family - sleep - whatever.

Anyway I have another view on the nature of God. I'm not a 'trinitarian' and I don't hold to 'oneness'. I've refrained from stating my position because I don't see it to be part of this discussion but if another thread is started which broadens the sphere, who knows where it will go

The Lord bless you

[damo1]

Hi Damo

It seems to me that onwingsaseagles has been pretty consistent about his desire to debate the OP - rather than answer issues which seem unrelated.

May I suggest that if there is a side issue that you see arising from this thread that you start another one. I for one would be pleased have input.

The Lord bless you

damo1

to Mutzrein

hay brother i am wiling to do this my self i just came to the post and found what you left for me and i am very wiling to talk with like minded souls who could do this wear every one is heard and we are walking according to what it says right in front of us and i feel you know already wear my heart is at on this topic that is being talked about know

as i have shared my views to who i am as a person and why i am the way i am but its as if its like a sounding gong being just hit sevral times real hard to wear one how would i say walks away angry instead of walking away feeling peac ful refreshed and encouraged and loved and supported

my leader in my church said the very same thing and when i do get enough sleep i wil come back to worthy i already pm a mod over sevral thing that i feel as a person needs to be adressed and i wil say start a topic in new posts to wear i put out verses from gods word stating how i see this as a person

i am stil willing to learn and stil willing to walk in unity but to be honest brother i feel it can not be done hear in this very thread know that is running on this topic my spirit is hurting by what i am hearing already and i wil not alow my sef to be pulled like this to wear i am shown no respect

this is not the fruit of the spirt it does nothing to up lift me as a brother in the lord and i feel i wil not sway to this any longer to be honest i want to rebuke but i ask the holy spirit to search my heart and i have to even repent and ask him to bring back the peace i like walking in when i do start a fresh

day i feel we are not going to get no wear in this thread that is runing know one side says this one person says we shuld be wiling to grow together and talk openly when al i see is people being attacked and shown no respect to wear one view is being forced down peoples throats on ones own doctrine they wrote

i wil pm the mod i have been talking to and see if a new thread on trinity and one ness can be started and i wil have the mod go over it before it is even posted threw the new topics and i wil ask the mod to keep this one going for those that are involved know in it i already sent one pm today and i am going to get some rest but wil be up later on tonight my time

yes i would be very keen to talk to like minded people

god bless you brother from damien