Marriage, Divorce, & Remarriage

[damo1]

damo1

hay cardcaptor

thanks for what you had said as i can understand wear you are coming from as i also had a friend in the same situation as you and his partner was a black belt in judo martial arts and you name it she was taught this by her father and her brother and my friend put up with the beatings for over 8yrs he finaly had enough he was not a christian but we al saw what was being done to him

i also had a female friend cardcaptor who was in the music minsistry in my church i new she was married but we never met the husband he would not come to church he worked in a rehab wear i use to live yet when i found out the truth to what he was doing to his wife i wanted to hurt him

he was teling her to keep everything silent she even hid the marks on her body and one day as we wear sitting down and we began to pray before we practiced for the sunday service as our worship practise was like a fellowship group my friend opend up

sevral told her to leave him and charge him others said stay and gave her verses from the bible i was the one who said people have nothing better to do than play god

my x wife was also irish i am croation and it was a wild mix cardcaptor when i did cry out for help and wanted to save what i had brokken with my own hands my first wife was told to leave me and find another man

i did a lot of things to that bought gods hands on me i slept with her when we wear stil a couple i had my partner stay with me in a unit i was renting from the church people tried to tel her to move out until we got married i did not alow this to happen as she also had no wear to stay and not many in the church wil put some one up and open up their own home

this is why i said people just love to play god when it comes to topics like this with out hearing the other side out and putting the hand out a couple i new ended up alowing my first wife to stay with them to stop al the back bitting that was going on in the church i was in as it was a smal group and in smal groups you can not get away from people

i could have married a christian but i stil had intrest in women out side the church as i was stil wild my self and only a babe in christ

this is why i am the way i am when it comes to topics like this cardcaptor as i see people show no respect to the other side and like to lay the guilt trip i do not let no one to do this with me i wil pull people up that try this on me

i took me time to heal i had to deal with a lot off things i did to my first wife and to my own child and only know have i moved on to wear we are good friends we pray for each other she had seven guys before she met this christian guy she is with

i might have slipped twice but i stayed single as i was not ready i only had two one night stands and that was it and made it clear to the two diffrent women i met who one was showing intrest in me but i was not ready to take on a mother with 4 teen age kids i was stil young

and i new i needed more of god in my life than me chassing after the flesh

its cool i hope we can move in this topic and grow together my new wife i met is a pastor and she is a lovely women a god fearing women who cares for me who encourages me and understands and has not even judged me she was in one relationship to a single pastor but she ended the relationship as her parents wear setting her up with men from her country and my partner had a talk to her parents and said she wants to do this her way and in her own timming

thanks for what you said to me

god bless from your brother in the lord damien

[Guest Greg Davies]

This is very interesting to me. The greek word for fornication is porneo and is translated also as generally sexual immorality.

It is obvious what english word we get from porneo. So why wouldn't pornography qualify?

I have been divorced for 5 years, and as much as would like to remarry, I haven't because my ex, if I can really call her that, is alive and has not "hooked up" with anyone. I want to be obedient to scripture and I see it as Cardcaptor does. So, I remain single.

It is a good question though: why wouldn't an addiction to pornography qualify as sexual immorality?

Greg.

[damo1]

damo1

high greg davis

i see wear you are coming from as i also looked into that my self as i had to rebuke some things that we alowed into our own home and porongraphy lines up with with imorality i never new this i use to even work in this industry we had a lot of married men coming in to the clubs i worked in and taking the female clients up stairs

when i began to get counseld over what was alowed to be played in our own home the holy spirit realy bought that scripture in matthew 6 verse 31 it has been said anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce

32 but i tel you anyone who divorces his wife except for maritial unfaithfulness causes her to become an adulteress and any one who marries the divorced women commits adultry new international version

wel i broke most of this as we played poronogrophy in our own home i even placed her in a mens magazine as we needed money and the money we got payed some bills

i also had to repent of greiving the holy spirit in this as we would go to church and not say a thing take comunion and then do what we wear so use to doing under our own roof

we never could pray together like i am able to with my new partner we could never even talk openly like i am talking openly with the women god has given me to be my wife

while i stayed single and as i said slipped twice my partner had 7 men so we both comitted adultry if you want to take this to the next step and realy take on gods word for what it says with out playing around

i new that i was brakking the marraige vowels and even what i said we alowed in our own home these verses hit me so hard threw the sessions i was having i at one stage fel on the floor in tears as this is how strong the spirit hit me

and i needed this as i said if i was to heal and be right with god than i also needed to be real as wel and not play god or hold back but let the holy spirit have full reign

know i am a little care ful when it comes to passages the holy spirit leads me to i dont bend the rules like i use to with my first wife and i even talk openly with my new partner

as we both have been singl for some time and i feel i am ready to move on and i know this is of god as we put god in the center of things and we just alowed him to guide our thoughts

so if a partner commits adultry or looks at porn to wear the partner feels they are not willing to turn around then they have that right to leave

so thank you greg for bringing that up

god bles from damien

[Sherman]

Please let me commend everyone for the civil, even graceful posts.

Concerning the Matthew 19 passage, an idiomatic phrase that's often missed is noted to in v.3. The Pharisees, intending to trap Jesus, asked him specifically about the "any matter" divorce. This is a very important element of the cultural context. In short, there was a debate between two schools of rabbinical thought, the Shammaites and the Hillelites, concerning divorce legislation. This is very well documented in many sources. Based upon the wording of Deut. 24:1 the Shammaites believed that if a man wanted to divorce his wife, he should explain the reason for the divorce to a board of rabbis who served as judges. They would then decree how much, if any, of the dowry he must pay her upon the divorce. On the other hand, the Hillelites believed that if a man was willing to pay the full dowry, he did not need to divulge the reason for the divorce, but only draw up the divorce papers and give them to her. The Shammaites and the Hillelites also proposed and insisted on different divorce procedures.

The "Any Matter" Hillelite divorce was considered to be more honorable by the average person because the man was willing to lose his monetary investment in the marriage and thus covering the "sins" of his wife, if there were any. In Matthew 1:19, Joseph is said to be a righteous man because he was going to divorce Mary "quietly;" this was an idiomatic, cultural term that referenced the "any matter" divorce. Joseph was not going to shame her publicly via going to Shammaite judges, but was willing to lose the bride-price (typically a years salary) by going to Hillelite judges to write up the divorce papers.

In Jewish culture the couple was married once the marriage covenant was established, though they might not have the ceremony and intercourse for a year or more depending upon their ages and other circumstances. This was NOT a betrothal period; they were legally married and even any children born before the marriage ceremony were considered legitimate. The marriage covenant was established when money, the bride-price, typically one-years wages swapped hands. The bride-price (BP) was then added to the woman's family inheritance (FI), the complete sum making the dowry, BP + FI = Dowry.

Sorry for the rabbit trail, the point is that the debate mentioned in v.3 was about "Divorce Legislation," NOT about "acceptable or non-acceptable reasons for divorce". Both the Shammaites and the Hillelites accepted that there were several morally acceptable reasons for divorce including a refusal to fulfill the basic expectations of marriage concerning food, shelter, provisions, conjugal rights, and having children. There was even social pressure to divorce and remarry, if a couple had been married for 10 or more years and were barren.

If a person reads Matthew 19:3 without understanding this idiomatic phrase, they will errantly interpret that the question asked Jesus by the Pharisees was about acceptable and non-acceptable reasons for divorce. This foundational assumption then sets them up to completely misunderstand what Jesus says in the following verses. It is very important to note and keep in mind that the debate was about "divorce legislation" and Not about "morally acceptable reasons for divorce". To understand it even better, we could equate the rabbinical "any matter" debate to the debate in our society over "No-fault Divorce". The two debates are actually similar in several ways.

To my knowledge there was no then-current debate in the Jewish rabbinical judicial system concerning either the validity of divorce, or even morally acceptable reasons for divorce. Jews (including Jesus) ASSUMED the Full Inspiration of the written Torah, both the Pharisees and the Saducees, including the bill of divorce. Thus the legislation of the bill of divorce was assumed inspired by God and neither the Jews nor Jesus would have even questioned the inspiration of scripture, especially the Torah, including the Bill of Divorce. So to think or interpret Jesus' words as in any way disagreeing with the full inspiration of the Mosaic law of the bill of divorce is to ignore the cultural, literary, and authorial context. A valid interpretation of Jesus' words must assume the full inspiration of scripture, especially the Torah, including the bill of divorce.

If a person reads Matthew 19:3 without understanding this idiomatic phrase, "any reason", "any matter", they would errantly assume that the debate was about acceptable and non-acceptable reasons for divorce. This foundational assumption then sets them up to completely misunderstand what Jesus says in the following verses. It is helpful to note and keep in mind that the debate was about divorce legislation and not about morally acceptable reasons for divorce.

[kat8585]

No. See posts #40 and 42.

[damo1]

So, am I to stay single while Dewell goes around and cheat, lies, does his drugs and hits on other women and wait for him' to come around'- .

what life is this for myslef or my 3 kiddos- .

Please, read my thread about my prayer requests the last few mths have been very difficult.

I appreciate the openness on here!

zg

damo1

hay zoe girl

seems like no one is responding i am hearing you sister please do not let this eat you but you go on with your life and you find that perfect man who wil love you for you respect you for who you are and even hear you out if he is not wiling to mend things with you just let this go and you tel your father in heaven who you want as a partner this is what i did i prayed and said out loud who i wanted as a wife and he heard me

alow your self to heal do not alow people to put the guilt trip on you zoe girl i know of sevral pastors that have been divorced and then remmaried but they needed to heal and get right with god first before even entering a new relationship so i feel may be you just need time to heal sister please do not take this to heart you are not in the wrong hear your partner had brokken the marriage vowels not you let gods peace settle into your heart and do not let this eat at you

god has some one out their for you zoe girl and trust me you wil be happy with the man he puts in your path he wil treat you like royality most men do not know how to even do this and it takes hard work and a lot of growing up i feel you married a boy not a man hay i even had to deal with a lot of stuff my self before i even prayed and asked god to put that right women into my path

i hear you zoe girl please do not let no one lay the guilt trip on you

and one day you wil be able to help some one elses out as you wil understand the pain that goes with divorce and seperation

god bless from your brother in the lord damien

[Sherman]

So, am I to stay single while Dewell goes around and cheat, lies, does his drugs and hits on other women and wait for him' to come around'- .

what life is this for myslef or my 3 kiddos- .

Please, read my thread about my prayer requests the last few mths have been very difficult.

I appreciate the openness on here!

zg

Hey ZG,

Actually, I believe that divorce's may remarry if they desire to even if they were the cause of their previous divorce. Paul actually says, "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned." (1 Cor. 7.27-28a). Of course, the literary context of 1 Cor. 7 bears out that "bound to a wife" means "married"; and "loosed from a wife" means "divorced". So the most evident interpretation of this verse is, "If you are married, do not seek a divorce. If you are divorced, do not seek to marry, but if you do marry you have not sinned." Furhtermore, it's significant to note that in chapter 7, Paul recommends that all singles (virgins, widows, and divorce'es) to not seek to marry, but remain unmarried.

Also, those that disagree with this interpretation of 1 Cor.7.27-28a, let's please delay our discussion on this until later when we look at 1 Cor. 7 more fully. I'm focusing on Mt.19 right now and do not want to get to spread out. MDR is a big old tough elephant, let's chew on it one bite at a time, otherwise it just gets overwhelming for me. And I really don't like to just pull out one verse, like I just did, because it's the overall picture that I'm looking for, one that takes all scripture into consideration. But this one scripture could possibly give you, zg, great comfort, encouragement, and be very empowering for you, empowering you to stand strong in the grace, forgiveness, and hope of the Lord.

[Sherman]

ZG,

I'm very sorry for the struggles you're going through. Divorce is very difficult and damaging even when or especially when it's necessary. I pray that God will comfort you and bring you His peace and wholeness.

your brother,

Sherman

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

A valid interpretation of Jesus' words must assume the full inspiration of scripture, especially the Torah, including the bill of divorce.

Jesus is the Lord of the Torah. Do you presume that others would know better than He Himself what the full inspiration was?

Let's go back for a minute;

Mt

[Guest Greg Davies]

Hi Sherman,

Nice to converse with you again. You probably read my previous post about the greek word porneia and pornography. I'll move on from there and address your lenghty post about the rabbinical stuff.

I've read the Matt 19 scriptures and the Matt. 5 reference also (well, actually I've read every verse in the bible concerning this topic a gazilliion times because I would really like to be free to remarry) and I just don't see how what you had to say about all the "idiomatic phrase" and etc. has to do with what seems to me to be a very plain explaination from Jesus about divorce.

The Pharisees ask Him about divorce and Jesus tells them that God never intended there to be divorce and only because of the hardness of their hearts did Moses allow it. And now Jesus says that, in conjuction with the Sermon on the mount reference in Matt. 5, divorce is not allowed except for "porneia". It all seems so plain and simple.

How does what you explained previoulsy change this seemingly clear declaration by Jesus? I'm not trying to argue. I really want to understand this. As I said before, I would really like to be free to remarry, but I won't disobey the word.

Also, you referenced I Cor 7. I could quote that chapter backwards by now. Taken by itself, I'd remarry in a heartbeat. But, it has to agree with what Jesus said in Matthew or Paul and Jesus are in disagreement. That's an untenable consideration. And if it were the case, I'd have to take sides with Jesus.

So, I am very interested in what you have to say.

God bless, Greg.