kari21 Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It seems to me that you are all adding to what the scriptures actually say in order to make youselves feel comfortable. We're not suppose to add to or take away or so I've been taught. The scriptures clearly say that God preordained everything and you can't blame satan because satan is God's creatioin too; plus, even in the bible genocide was done at the orders of God. Satan only kills in the book of Job and even then he can't do it without asking God first. People say you can't know the mind of God; people say the Bible is God's word yet the same people can't accept that word when it conflicts with personal human emotions and mankind's sense of right and wrong. We try to make God's mind fit our own minds. As Creator, ALL life belongs to God, and it is His right to give life or to take it away, that does not make God a murderer. But, the Bible does give that label to Satan: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypathia Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2007 It seems to me that you are all adding to what the scriptures actually say in order to make youselves feel comfortable. We're not suppose to add to or take away or so I've been taught. The scriptures clearly say that God preordained everything and you can't blame satan because satan is God's creatioin too; plus, even in the bible genocide was done at the orders of God. Satan only kills in the book of Job and even then he can't do it without asking God first. People say you can't know the mind of God; people say the Bible is God's word yet the same people can't accept that word when it conflicts with personal human emotions and mankind's sense of right and wrong. We try to make God's mind fit our own minds. As Creator, ALL life belongs to God, and it is His right to give life or to take it away, that does not make God a murderer. But, the Bible does give that label to Satan: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) Satan isn't god. So if Satan was a murderer from the beginning then it means God made him that way from the beginning, and, as I've pointed out already even Satan cannot kill without God's permission to do so. We kill and we call it murder, but when God kills we don't call it murder because it's God doing it and He can do whatever He wants to whomever He wants by whatever method he chooses to do it. It's pointless to blame satan when satan has a boss over him. Maybe God created satan for the fallguy position; He created everything for a purpose....which the Bible tells us is to glorify Him [God] so that would include satan and the role that God chose for him. But also, just to point out, in another part of the bible Lucifer isn't referred to as being a murderer in the beginning, he's referred to as being a beautiful angel of God. Maybe he was a beautiful murderous angel? Only God knows how he made him or why he needed an evil angel to glorify Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted December 13, 2007 You seem to be angry at God. God allows things, that's certain, but for Him to create a murderous angel to be the fall guy for Him is rediculous. Satan let pride corrupt him. He wanted to be God. Satan wants every person to join him in Hell. But God, on the other hand, gave us free will to choose to follow Him or to do evil. God even entered His creation to live among us, die on a cross after being falsely accused and given an illegal trial, then conquor death for us. That doesn't sound like He is the two-faced, hateful God you seem to see. I hope you do some studying and come to know God and His love. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It seems to me that you are all adding to what the scriptures actually say in order to make youselves feel comfortable. We're not suppose to add to or take away or so I've been taught. The scriptures clearly say that God preordained everything and you can't blame satan because satan is God's creatioin too; plus, even in the bible genocide was done at the orders of God. Satan only kills in the book of Job and even then he can't do it without asking God first. People say you can't know the mind of God; people say the Bible is God's word yet the same people can't accept that word when it conflicts with personal human emotions and mankind's sense of right and wrong. We try to make God's mind fit our own minds. As Creator, ALL life belongs to God, and it is His right to give life or to take it away, that does not make God a murderer. But, the Bible does give that label to Satan: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) damo1 to hypathia it seems to me you have a problem with god for some reason by the posts i am reading that you leave through worthy how i see god may not be how you see god as i remember you stated god has a cold heart may i ask you if you feel that god has a cold heart and he seems not to care to what hapens to man kind what are you doing reading gods word the people that have applied to this topic have given you honest answers to how they see god why do you have to complicate things you said you wear taught not to add to the scripture passages if you are happy living the life you are living than live it to the full and take your chance come judgment day and you can ask god your self when standing face to face with him when he does decide to judge the whole world i shared how i saw things when i was not a christian i am from a war torn country my brother still lives in the country i moved from my brother has lost many of his friends but he does not blame god for what the serbians did with their own hands my brother is not a christian yet he does not harden his heart towards god and every day say god why are you letting these evil men do this to my people my brother serves in the croation army and he is very good at what he does what god did in me i alowed this to happen as i did not want to carry that hatred and anger i had towards the serbs as i saw that it was also wrong for me to hold on to this hate i could have sat in my room and played the victem and came up with all excuses not to give my life to god i know sevral people that do this in the farming comunity i live in know we had to ask one person to leave as she was not willing to alow god to heal her or set her free as i said what we see being done today is done by man not by god if you want to continue being negative and if you wnat to continue to blame god go for it do as you please but do not think by what is shared hear in this topic is all made up just to add to scripture as i said when god does decide to judge the world and you are face to face with god i dare you to tell god to his face that he has a cold heart as you are going to face him on judgment day just like the men i stated who killed many people in my country they decided what their out come is going to be they could have walked away they could have put their guns down but many inocent people have died by these guys hands my brother suffers as he lost most of his friends that he grew up with and went to school with though he does not sit on his high horse and blame god for everything that has been done in our country when i share i share from personal experiances i was very judgmental i was very negative but god broke threw and today i am a better man if you feel what i am saying is false i dare you to question me as this is what i am picking up in you god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypathia Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2007 You seem to be angry at God. God allows things, that's certain, but for Him to create a murderous angel to be the fall guy for Him is rediculous. Satan let pride corrupt him. He wanted to be God. Satan wants every person to join him in Hell. But God, on the other hand, gave us free will to choose to follow Him or to do evil. God even entered His creation to live among us, die on a cross after being falsely accused and given an illegal trial, then conquor death for us. That doesn't sound like He is the two-faced, hateful God you seem to see. I hope you do some studying and come to know God and His love. <>< ><> Nathele I'm just scared to death of Him. I don't know how anyone that has read the bible couldn't be scared to death of Him. -- Sorry, but we do not have free-will at all. Think about that dying on the cross thing, God skewered His own Son; tortured Him to death.....and when you factor in that that Son was God Himself? That's terrifying! Add to that all the God santioned killing in the OT and the promise of a bloody end in the NT when Jesus returns.....and the terror grows. Here's a God that can create everything with a spoken word yet He operates on this kind of level to "conquer death"? That's love?? That's just scary. We're definitely at His mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypathia Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2007 Listen guys, instead of focusing on me, my fear, focus on what the bible actually says. It seems evident in your posts that you're avoiding the scriptures and putting forth your own "happy thoughts"; making God the kind of God you want him to be according to man's ways, our opinions on what God should be instead of what God says about Himself in the Bible; what He says He has done and what He says He is going to do. As for Judgement Day don't forget, a lot of people are going to be begging and reminding God of all the good things they've done in His name to which He will reply, "Depart from me I never knew you". People do good things in the name of God because they believe in Him and yet even they won't make it into heaven according to the Bible --- which BTW we are suppose to read. If you're not gonna read it and study it then you might as well become a Catholic and just lets a bunch of Priests tell you what to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted December 13, 2007 You need to come to know God. Yes we need to fear God. But not in the way you are saying. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, then you need not fear the bloody battle talked of in Revelation. Jesus Christ chose to come to this earth because that is the only way that people like you and I can find grace and salvation. There is nothing anyone can do to avoid death or pain in this world. We all go through things. Yes we do have free will and we all make our own choice. As an example picture yourself driving down the road. There is a fork in the road and the road to the left has a sign that says "Do Not Enter - Bridge Out" the the road to the right is open and clear. Which way would you choose? You do have a choice, but if you go to the left you will have a big problem. But it is still your choice. God laid out rules. People chose to not follow those rules. The death and destruction in the Old Testament was caused by disobedience to God. God said not to eat of the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil -- man ate. God said don't worship idols -- man chose to worship idols. This idol worship lead to sacrificing children to these stone images. This was spearheaded by Satan. Call these idols Baal or Ashteroth or whatever name you want, but they are of Satan. When corruption becomes overwhelming God needs to take action. Does He want people to die? No. Does He kill just for the shear pleasure of killing? No. You have read your Bible but you haven't studied your Bible. You need to study the why behind the events. Now, let me ask you a question. If I was going to die and the only way for me to not die was for you to die. Would you give your life for me? No. But God did. His love is what saves us. Because He loves you so much He came to earth and gave His life for you. All you need to do is accept this. <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It seems to me that you are all adding to what the scriptures actually say in order to make youselves feel comfortable. We're not suppose to add to or take away or so I've been taught. The scriptures clearly say that God preordained everything and you can't blame satan because satan is God's creatioin too; plus, even in the bible genocide was done at the orders of God. Satan only kills in the book of Job and even then he can't do it without asking God first. People say you can't know the mind of God; people say the Bible is God's word yet the same people can't accept that word when it conflicts with personal human emotions and mankind's sense of right and wrong. We try to make God's mind fit our own minds. As Creator, ALL life belongs to God, and it is His right to give life or to take it away, that does not make God a murderer. But, the Bible does give that label to Satan: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) Satan isn't god. So if Satan was a murderer from the beginning then it means God made him that way from the beginning, and, as I've pointed out already even Satan cannot kill without God's permission to do so. We kill and we call it murder, but when God kills we don't call it murder because it's God doing it and He can do whatever He wants to whomever He wants by whatever method he chooses to do it. It's pointless to blame satan when satan has a boss over him. Maybe God created satan for the fallguy position; He created everything for a purpose....which the Bible tells us is to glorify Him [God] so that would include satan and the role that God chose for him. But also, just to point out, in another part of the bible Lucifer isn't referred to as being a murderer in the beginning, he's referred to as being a beautiful angel of God. Maybe he was a beautiful murderous angel? Only God knows how he made him or why he needed an evil angel to glorify Himself. The Bible calls satan the "god of this world." (2 Corinthians 4:4 ) And what is meant by him being a murderer from the beginning, it means from the moment iniquity was found in him. (Ezekiel 28:15) You need to read the Bible in context, and stop snipping out what doesn't mesh with your personal vendetta against God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted December 13, 2007 damo1 to hypathia why are you scared of him he is a loving god and he wants a relationship with you if he did not alow his son to go through this wear would we be today ? jesus new what he had to do jesus was gods only son but his course was layed out for him john 12 new spirit filled life bible 45 and he who sees me sees him who sent me 46 i have come as a light into this world that whoever belives in me should not abide in darkness 47 and if anyone hears my words and does not belive i do not judge him for i did not come to judge the world but to save the world 48 he who rejects me and does not receive my words has that which judges him the word that i have spoken will judge him in the last day do you realy want to take that chance and say that god did not care what happend to jesus on the cross jesus came to save man kind jesus did what no man could do and i thank jesus every day for what he did for me on the cross just think for one moment if jesus did not do what he did on the cross and said to his father in heaven no i wil not walk the path you have me on i want to live this life and i want what most of my friends have wear would we all be today many wil not know their out come many of us wil be living our lives not knowing that what we are doing we wil go to hell we would not even know that their is a heaven or a hell god also could have sent his angels to prottect his son when he was arrestted in the garden and taken to trial god could have prottected jesus from the pain he had to endure even when the soldiers said all bad things to jesus not one word came out of his mouth if you are so scared why are you openly saying this my prayer for you is to come to a point in your life wear you sit down in your house or unit and you ask god to come into your life as i said god wants a relationship with you but while you are in this state how can god show you how much he loves you all i ask is that you do not be negative when it comes to what jesus did for man kind he took the sin of the whole world upon him self and i am thank full that jesus was that man that did this every day i say jesus i love you and every day i say thank you for what you did for me on the cross no reason to be scared of god this is satan playing with you and he is very good at doing this he wil do what ever he can to hold you back from finding out the truth as he knows once your eyes have been oppend to the truth of gods word he has lost you he did this with me but he lost that grip and hold he had over me if you have any one to talk to wear you are living i would ask that you do this even make an apoint ment to talk to a pastor and be open when the pastor gives you this time and tell him what is on your heart god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypathia Posted December 13, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2007 It seems to me that you are all adding to what the scriptures actually say in order to make youselves feel comfortable. We're not suppose to add to or take away or so I've been taught. The scriptures clearly say that God preordained everything and you can't blame satan because satan is God's creatioin too; plus, even in the bible genocide was done at the orders of God. Satan only kills in the book of Job and even then he can't do it without asking God first. People say you can't know the mind of God; people say the Bible is God's word yet the same people can't accept that word when it conflicts with personal human emotions and mankind's sense of right and wrong. We try to make God's mind fit our own minds. As Creator, ALL life belongs to God, and it is His right to give life or to take it away, that does not make God a murderer. But, the Bible does give that label to Satan: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) Satan isn't god. So if Satan was a murderer from the beginning then it means God made him that way from the beginning, and, as I've pointed out already even Satan cannot kill without God's permission to do so. We kill and we call it murder, but when God kills we don't call it murder because it's God doing it and He can do whatever He wants to whomever He wants by whatever method he chooses to do it. It's pointless to blame satan when satan has a boss over him. Maybe God created satan for the fallguy position; He created everything for a purpose....which the Bible tells us is to glorify Him [God] so that would include satan and the role that God chose for him. But also, just to point out, in another part of the bible Lucifer isn't referred to as being a murderer in the beginning, he's referred to as being a beautiful angel of God. Maybe he was a beautiful murderous angel? Only God knows how he made him or why he needed an evil angel to glorify Himself. The Bible calls satan the "god of this world." (2 Corinthians 4:4 ) And what is meant by him being a murderer from the beginning, it means from the moment iniquity was found in him. (Ezekiel 28:15) You need to read the Bible in context, and stop snipping out what doesn't mesh with your personal vendetta against God. Kari - Is God perfect or not? Can a perfect being such as God make an imperfect being by accident? Who made Satan? Was Satan a mistake or did God create satan by design? I think God is the beginning and the end; the Alpha and the Omega, all things good and bad are part of God's plan for whatever reason we don't understand. God can do whatever He wants whether we like it or agree with it or not. He could care less if we "make human excuses" for what He does He's so far above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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