Do We REALLY Believe?

[Pilgrim7]

Brother Damo.

You said:

but what i see hear several have asked this question to the op of this topic she should have explained her self as this can also been seen as a trap as one will see this their way to how they understand what is being asked and some one else will see it to their own understanding

The OP did explain herself. What she should have done or not is not up to you to determine. How can believing Scripture be seen as a trap, except by those who know that they should say yes because it is Scripture, but who really don't believe it and believe and teach the opposite. You see the Holy Spirit leads all of us into the same truth, the Scriptures. When there are differences of opinion as to truth, it is because there is another Spirit just as there was in the Garden of Eden. This Spirit was telling Eve not to believe the truth. That was the trap, unbelief, authored by the father or lies.

yet what i am saying is very simple if the op of this topic is going to ask people on a public christian forum to state do they really believe why is it that when ever some one apply seems to get pulled up its like one version is only acceptable

There is only one version of the truth, and that is God's version as stated in the Scriptures and revealed by the Holy Spirit, all of the Scriptures.

i am a man and i do not believe in tip toeing around issues and as i said this topic should be what doctrines do we follow is it gods living word or is it mans doctrine

As am I. I do not tip toe around the issues either, as I am not doing here. Believing and following the Scriptures as they read, is following 'God's living Word'. When one ceases to do that, then they are following 'man's doctrine', quibbling with the Scriptures at their own peril. The OP just happens to be a woman who does not tip toe around the issues also.

then this topic can be talked at the core leval

You can't get any more core level than belief. It doesn't get any more basic than that. You see belief is the foundation upon which all the Christian life is built. All act from their 'belief' or 'unbelief' in what the Scriptures teach.

sorry if you cant hear what i am saying but i will not have a women pulling me up when i do apply to her topic its as simple as that

I definitely hear what you are saying. Do you women out ther hear what he is saying. Brother, the Scriptures also say and I believe, that in the kingdom, there is neither male nor female, but all are one in Christ. I imagine what you mean by 'pulling up' is a woman disagreeing with you. (As a man, you had better get used to women disagreeing with you. A little humor here, but really off topic)

i can say i belive but then i iwil be setting my self up for a trap

Please identify the trap that some are so fearful of. When one makes an accusation like that then it devolves upon them to identify what the trap is. The only way it can appear as a trap is for those who would say that they believe the Scripture, but in reality believe and thus teach the opposite. That would be the only possible way to perceive it as a trap. Those who beileve all of Scripture and follow it, have no fear of being caught in a trap.

how many of us hear can say Jesus is lord over our lives how many of us can say openly with out shame that he is who he says he is

All who believe and submit to their Lord following Him and His word can rightfully call Him Lord. Scripture does speak of a group who call Him Lord, but don't really beileve and do what He says in His word.

this topic has already gone of its course and i do not like it when one person sits on the high chair and brings in OSAS

This topic went off course the minute that folks ceased to discuss the original topic and Scriptures quoted and began talking about a trap and questioning the motives of the OP. No one is sitting on a 'high chair' I hope. OSAS is absolutely related to the topic. It is this duality of 'belief' and 'unbelief' which is the foundation of OSAS.

if i am to apply to a topic i hope i can have my say with out being pulled up and having to prove my self that i belive in what the op of this topic is asking

I see, you want to be able to 'pull up' the OP and others and don't think that the same should happen to you. Hmm. I would hope that you can prove what you believe from the Scriptures, all of them in harmony, other wise you might be following the doctrines of man, which aren't really the doctrines of man, but of the father of lies.

yet to make you happy to show you that i have no shame i belive jesus is lord over my life and i belive with all my heart what is written in the bible is true

Thank you brother Damo, you are now back on topic. You see it wasn't so hard. No one has sprung a trap on you. You are still free. You believe the Scriptures quoted in the OP. You are a 'believer' who believes all of Scripture and not one of the Yeah, but' crowd who say they 'believe' but really do not.

God bless you Brother Damo,

Dennis

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Pilgrim

Dear Brother, you are the one that continues to be off-topic and going on and on about the "trap." Believe me, the OP can speak for herself.

Let's stick to the topic of the thread, not a side issue of a trap.

As for Damo, as I Christian woman I understand where he's coming from and I agree. However, that again is off-topic and if you want to discuss it with him, another thread may be more appropriate.

The thread is nothingness as Eric said because if we are Christians, we BELIEVE Scripture. Duh.

So, in answer to the OP. Yes, I believe Scripture is Scripture and I believe that Scripture is the very words of G-d.

However, the way this thread is presented is pretty disturbing because the Scripture is not presented in its correct context and presented as a discussion object.

[damo1]

damo1

to pilgram7

i am only going to say this once stop pulling people up especialy me i stated what i said in my post and i am sticking to this do not try to deffend the op this is what you are doing she has pulled sevral people up that have applied to her topic

me and my partner are one my partner is a pastor in the phillippines so when i said this you thought i was one off these old fashioned guys that obey the laws that paul talked about in corinthians when he said women should be silent ?

you did not hear what i said in my post this shows me you are jumping the gun and deffending the op let her talk for her self she does not need you backing her up

the op hear did not explaine her self at all

as if she had explained her self then she would not have had others pulling her up and asking her to explaine her self

this is what i was talking about you have some how gone of track hear brother

as i said this topic should be on what doctrines have we allowed our selves to belive in then when this is dealt with then this topic can be talked on at the core leval

boy you must love pulling people up was i pulling women down when i said i am a man and i do not need a women pulling me up

you can get to the core leval the op hear loves pulling people up i have seen this with her other posts that she sets up on this forum

its like people hear who apply have to prove some thing or prove they belive

when i see religon trying to sneek in i deal with religon head on as i said if the op wants this topic of hers to be answerd lets have it were we allow others also to have their say with out you or the op of this topic pulling people up or this can turn out into a war zone and i am very happy to do this

how game are you do you really want to get into a debate were we have to prove we really belive as i said i am keen how keen are you ? i am very happy to go into a soap box debate if this is what you want other wise let people have their say

i belive what the bible says but sevral like hidding behind scripture passages they are comfterbal with with out reading the whole scripture passage this is some thing i do not do and i do not ask those in my church if they really belive or get on a public christian forum and set up a topic to were you ask christians from many diffrent denominations do we really belive this is what i call OSAS

and i am sticking to what i said in my main post hay i have had to pull guys up in my partners country who have openly rebuked her for being a pastor as i see some like sticking to the law and when i see this i deal with it head on often my partner confronts this pig headed attitude

she has also had people come up to her and say prove that god has ordained you to pastor a church prove that you are a true christian and when she rings me crying over the ph all i can do is pray and i am going to be dealing with three guys when i am over their next year

lets hear how you thought i was one of these old fashioned guys i know what paul was saying to the early christians but that law was dealt with and today my partner has that freedom and i stand by her side christians should not have to prove if they really belive as we all are reading the same bible arnt we ? or is their another bible out their that i am un aware off

was christs death on the cross then in vain ?

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[tsth]

Dear damo,

There is nothing for me to explain. I simply asked if you believed what the particular passages stated. The Word speaks for Itself, and as Pilgrim explained, it is the Word/Truth taken for what It says, that is bothering some.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[damo1]

Dear damo,

There is nothing for me to explain. I simply asked if you believed what the particular passages stated. The Word speaks for Itself, and as Pilgrim explained, it is the Word/Truth taken for what It says, that is bothering some.

In His Love,

Suzanne

damo1

well you have lost sevral people hear as this is know like a prove to me if you really belive and i am standing by what i said in my post my partner should not have to prove that her calling is off god and she should not have to put up with men coming up to her saying prove your calling and prove you are a true christian

pilgram 7 needs to learn to pull his head in as i am willing to get into a debate on this very topic as i will be pulling three men up in my partners home town who are very traditional were religon is more important than what christ did for us on the cross

i under stand the scripture passages very well yet more imput could have been given as its like this topic is saying only one group will enter heaven

im sticking by what i have said

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[Pilgrim7]

Peace to you Vickilynn,

I thank you for your reply and advice.

Suzanne can obviously speak for herself as well as I can speak to support her if I wish, especially when others gang up on her.

I replied to the issue that many raised about the trap as did the OP. It is appropriate to comment on what people say in their replies.

The thread is nothingness as Eric said because if we are Christians, we BELIEVE Scripture. Duh.

Duh, I wish that were true. All one has to do is look at any topic here and see that many don't believe many Scriptures. Many think that one Scripture negates or makes of none effect another Scripture. That is selective belief, incomplete belief, directly related to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You are well aware of this when you deal with the issue of the Sabbath. The majority do not believe the Scriptures that speak of God's Holy Sabbath Day. Thus they do not believe all of Scripture.

However, the way this thread is presented is pretty disturbing because the Scripture is not presented in its correct context and presented as a discussion object.

This is what discussion is all about, to look at the Scripture and the context and any related Scriptures which is what some did, I mention Cardcaptor for one. You are free to bring up whatever context you wish, that would definitely be on topic. What is really disturbing is when people think that they can direct others in how and what to post and then question their integrity and motivation in doing so. That is not their job.

Again thanks for the advice and I hope there is no bad feeling if I have a little different perspective than you.

God bless you Sister,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

Brother Damo,

I will defend who I wish, when I wish.

You do not determine what anyone does here. You are just one of the gang. It would be better if you, in Christian love, just stated your opinion and stopped trying to upbraid those who disagree with you.

You are not the one to tell others what the topic should be or how it should be presented.

There is plenty of evidence here that you have been able to say what you wished. No one has tried to stop you or question your right to do so. No one has questioned your motives. It just so happens that some don't agree with you. That is there right. You are welcome to your opinion, but that does not mean that you are the last word on these things or that others have to bend to your wishes. I believe that there is still freedom of conscience in matters of faith.

Your Brother in Christ,

Dennis

[damo1]

Brother Damo,

I will defend who I wish, when I wish.

You do not determine what anyone does here. You are just one of the gang. It would be better if you, in Christian love, just stated your opinion and stopped trying to upbraid those who disagree with you.

You are not the one to tell others what the topic should be or how it should be presented.

There is plenty of evidence here that you have been able to say what you wished. No one has tried to stop you or question your right to do so. No one has questioned your motives. It just so happens that some don't agree with you. That is there right. You are welcome to your opinion, but that does not mean that you are the last word on these things or that others have to bend to your wishes. I believe that there is still freedom of conscience in matters of faith.

Your Brother in Christ,

Dennis

damo1

to pilgram 7

oh you are a brave man well as i said how keen are you lets take this to the next leval if you are so keen i am willing to go into a soap box debate on this topic alone do we really belive

how keen are you were have i told others to pull this topic ,my way if you read what i left tsth hear you wil see this for your self

i am going to be off line for a week but i will be near a computer and any time you are keen to go into a one on one debate on this topic with me set it up with the moderating team and then when one of the members gives you the go ahead send me a personal pm message

as i said i run into people who like to almost get into a biblical argument with you on weather you really belive in gods word or weather you are a true christian

before you leave me a message on this topic think hard to what you are going to say so you feel that you are the only one hear who is a true christian and are you keen to state that christ death on the cross was only for people like your self and the op of this topic

boy i can see why people want nothing to do with what we have to offer them

i must be stupid or i must be dumb is their another bible out their please direct me to this other bible so i can denounce everything i have been asking god to do in my life or should i just go back to my old life and when i am facing god on judgment day when he decides to judge the whole world and he asks me why did you walk away and denounce your faith i wil just tell him their are people like pilgrim 7 and tsth who like to sit in on judgment and ask stupid questions weather we really belive

if you are keen lets take this to the next leval i wil be very happy to debate this topic set up as a soap box debate between me and you that way brother you are not standing up for tsth

it wil be only me and you

i am ready when ever you are ready may be you should also go to the start of this topic and pull the other members up that have questioned tsth

how christian off you tell me something what are you like with home less people and street kids do you pick who you will share the gospel to or do you only share this gospel to rich people and educated people like your self pilgram 7 ? and those who will truely say preach it brother yes we really belive that only one group of people wil enter heaven how i express my self hear on this topic should not be your concern or are you trying to correct me in love and think i need to be corrected

one thing i am going to make very clear to you is this i do not worship one translation over antother translation or do i hide behind scripture passages that i am comfterbal with i belive in the bible and i read every single scripture passage to were i ask the holy spirit to bring in the truth of gods word and what i am reading my eyes are set to what christ did for me on the cross not on mans doctrine or what man has to say its as simple as that and i do not even worship the man preaching from the pulpit i am very grounded i study gods living word and i jot down what is pointed out to me when i am reading my own bible i do not even sift gods word

were you said people hear do not realy belive what they are reading have you got this insight pilgrim 7 were you feel people are not taking this gospel serious and what we are toying around and only give out lip service

if i had my way i would be still to this day living in sin but by the grace of god i am what i am as paul says i am not perfect but i pray and i ask for wisdom not once have i been let down i am not an egg head i am not an educated person i am a very simple man who nearly killed a man but god shook me up tell me somthing if you seem to think no one hear takes gods word seriouse do you deal with your own hidden sins do you openly show the real you to those who know you or are you one of these guys that loves putting on the mask ?

please show me were i have been ganging up on the op or trying to pull this topic my way oh is the truth to hard to handle is this what you are seeing i am a very caring person and i know how to walk in unity with my other brothers and sisters you are the one that is flying off the handle hear brother

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[Pilgrim7]

Brother it would seem that you have been offended. That is not my intention. You are very forthright in your opinions and seem to have no qualms about offending others. I would hope this is not your intention. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I would refer you to your signature:

22 christ never verbally abused those who abused him When he sufferd he did not make any threats but left everything to the one who judges fairly

Very good advice and also Scripture to be believed and followed.

I am glad that you help the poor. I do also. I don't boast of these things, but as Paul said I will become a fool to answer your accusation as to me just dealing with the rich. I have ministered in many of the poorest of countries. I was three years in the jungles of Africa doing missionary work with the natives, in much poverty, distress and deprivation. I ministered in the jungles of Venezuela where the military dogged our every step looking for reasons to lock us up. I now minister to convicts, drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, homosexuals etc. I have helped start several homeless shelters staying there with the people all night long dealing with whatever issues came up and there were plenty. I have been in jails, slept in the poring rain without a tent, been taken prisoner by native tribes in the 'bush' and many other uncomfortable things to numerous to mention. One of our ministries now is ministering to the aged widows and and shut-ins and doing what ever they need done, without charge, for most are on fixed income. So much for your accusations and your judgment of my character. Remember the Scripture which says 'Judge not lest you be judged'.

And no I am not saved by these works, I love to do them because Christ dwells in me motivating me to do them, for me to live is Christ.

Yes I even minister to 'church folk', but I find that to be the toughest ministry of all, the darkest mission field I have ever encountered. In ministering to the poor, I have never had them attempt to denigrate my character even though they might not have agreed with me.

If I were you, in the future, I would pray and listen for the voice of the Spirit before making wild, unsubstantiated accusations of another's character.

I need not debate you on this topic. We have had our debate. You see a debate is an unimpassioned discussion of an issue, not one fraught with hurt feelings and loaded language. It is an honest, intellectual exchange of ideas and evidence to back the up, without inferences as to one's personal character. That is how Christian Brothers deal with each other, even if they disagree.

Your Brother in Christ,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

Thanks Cardcaptor,

God bless you and yours, Merry Christmas.

Your Brother in Christ,

Dennis