Is Jesus God?

[Guest shiloh357]

Why do you argue and not let the Spirit Of God bring you the answer. I am but only a human, and so are you. No one is perfect ,why attack a fellow Brother Who also Loves Jesus, Who is God ,He Is sitting on the right hand side of The Father...Who was once a Human but of Perfection. Love thy neighbor as thy love thy selves. Amen

I am confronting false teaching. I already have the answer. I haven't attacked anyone. You did not answer my question, though. You were quoting a passage that did not appear to have any material contribution to the subject at hand and I was curious what you might have seen in that passage that I did not.

This is not a peripheral subject that we can let slide. The Christian faith is predicated on the Deity of Jesus. It is not a nonessential that we can agree to disagree on. A rejection of Jesus' Deity is a challenge to God's integrity. Without Jesus' Deity, without Jesus being 100%, there cannot be a Christian faith, or can salvation exist apart from Jesus as God.

Anyone who loves Jesus will believe Jesus when He testifies that He is God. You cannot love Jesus and deny His Deity.

Jesus is eternal and a God just like God the father is, but he is not God the father. God the Father is not the one who came here in the flesh. Jesus himself came here in the flesh as he has been in heaven with God and the HS all along.

I realize that Jesus is not God the Father. What I am saying is that Jesus is not "A" God. He is God, The Father is God; The Holy Spirit is God. There are not indivual "Gods." That simply is not true because the Bible does teach that.

I challenge you Carccaptor to produce ONE place in the Bible that says, "Jesus is "A" God. I produce all kinds of Scriptures where Jesus is called "God."

[Guest shiloh357]

You have jumped to a conclusion that is fallacious. I have never said that Jesus was just a man.

You only have two options here. Either Jesus was 100% man and 100% God or Jesus was not God at all, but simply a man. You don't have any other options. Either Jesus is who He said He is, or He is just a man.

My faith is in Christ because I am in Christ.

Your "Christ" is not the Christ of Scripture. Your "Christ" is not God. Your faith is in a different Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible is God and He and the Father both say so. You are worshipping an idol you have concocted in your own mind to fit your "theology."

I have not 'accepted' Christ as one who would 'accept' or give assent to a doctrine. I have been grafted into the vine which is Christ. This is because I am born of God. And I am born of God NOT through any human decision but by God's will.

Salvation is not something forced on anyone. God does not independent of human will, save anyone. God always requires repentance and a coffession of faith. That means that at some point one has to make a decision to either follow Christ or not.

And any who would deny it, deny the righteousness that I have in Christ.

Yeah that would be me. All you have is religion.

Man of course will try, but God and scripture will not.

You don't even believe the Scriptures. You prefer to mold the Scriptures around your false doctrine than believe the truth.

[getat151]

Mutzrein i read post #19 and i believe it corrosponds with what ive already thought about jesus's relationship with the father....

Damo....thanx btw im not really a new christian i recieved salvation/the holy spirit when i was 15 but i walked away from it when my church fell apart and god has been pulling me back all these years but i jus now decided to go back....i cant enjoy this world....the problem is b4 i jus listened to everyone else on what the bible said and never investigated myself.....this question i posted is just one of like 5 questions that have really been bothering me....which will have me studying gods word more...and i will also be asking yo all these questions on this forum.

i think that basically jesus is divine, eternal, and lord and that he was acting on gods accord and had the spirit of god in him therefore he was god to us...he was the manifestation of god...through jesus we understand who god is...without jesus we would not....just like when one is praying for another and they recieve a word of knowledge or word of profecy and speaking out of gods love, wisdom, and knowledge, jesus is speaking through that person.....jesus is in there "midst"

Does this make sense??? wow this is starting to make sense lol

I think god wanted us to practice the things that jesus did because through every step of that we would become more like jesus allowing him to work through us...jus like god worked through jesus...thus explaining how we would become one with jesus how jesus and the father became one....By Spirit....

BTW I love this forum and everybody on it......because all of you actually take the time to understand what you believe in...and you respond with thought out answers......

[Guest shiloh357]

i think that basically jesus is divine, eternal, and lord and that he was acting on gods accord and had the spirit of god in him therefore he was god to us...he was the manifestation of god...through jesus we understand who god is...without jesus we would not....just like when one is praying for another and they recieve a word of knowledge or word of profecy and speaking out of gods love, wisdom, and knowledge, jesus is speaking through that person.....jesus is in there "midst"

Does this make sense???

I am sorry but no, it does not make sense. Like Mutzrein, you are relying on what you "think" and not really what the Scriptures say. That is the problem. You are trying fashion a "Jesus" that fits your way of thinking, rather than adusting your thinking and your belief to fit what Scripture says.

Anyone can take individual verses, rip them from the context, ignore the intention of the author, and make those verses appear to say whatever they want them to say. That is what I have observed you doing on this thread.

i think that basically jesus is divine, eternal, and lord and that he was acting on gods accord and had the spirit of god in him therefore he was god to us...he was the manifestation of god

That is a contradiction in terms. I think part of this may stem from the fact that you are not aware of what some words like "Divine" mean. To be Divine means to be God. Jesus is "eternal" and the word eternal means "without beginning and without end" as it is applied to Him. The ONLY one who can be "eternal" is God. You cannot be "Divine" and not be God. It is simply impossible. Let's keep in mind that words mean things and we need to be sure about the meaning of words before we use them.

[Ovedya]

Hazard,

I am seeing that all of the Scriptures you provide basically are interpreted as from a human standpoint rather than through divine revelation, which is needed to understand the twofold aspects divine Trinity. So rather than try to sort out where and how your interpretations simply ignore the oneness of the divine Trinity, I will simply provide Scriptures which contradict your reasoning. Essentially three distinct Persons, or gods, each with separate bodies, souls and spirits, cannot exist according to these verses:

"And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit.(1 Cor. 3:17-18)

According to the context of these two verses, "the Spirit of the Lord" or the compound title is the same Spirit as in verse 8, which is the Holy Spirit. The Lord Jesus in resurrection does not have simply a human spirit, but the very Spirit of God. This is also the same Holy Spirit which Christ in resurrection breathed into the apostles:

"And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)

The Spirit not only comes from the Son, but proceeds from the Father - "ekporeuomai" meaning "to come forth from, to issue out from"

"But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality, who proceeds from the Father, He will testify concerning Me;" (John 15:26)

But wait, this is also the Spirit of the Father!:

"And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Rom. 8:11)

But then...

So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul''; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)

According to this verse Jesus became a life-giving Spirit. Are there now three Spirits - the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of God and Jesus who is now a life-giving Spirit? According to Jesus' own words only the Holy Spirit can give life:

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6"63)

This was confirmed by the apostles:

"...for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (1 Cor. 3:6b)

So who indwells the believers? Is it Jesus, the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

According to Romans 8:9 it's the Spirit of Christ:

"But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him."

Then according to verse 11 it's the Spirit of the Father:

"And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."

Then according to verse 16 it's the Holy Spirit Himself:

The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God"

Also 1 Cor. 16:19:

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?"

But what about Jesus?:

"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me;" (Gal. 2:20a)

"But if Christ is 2in you..." (Rom. 8:10)

"That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love," (Eph. 3:17)

"...Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:5b)

"To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory," (Col. 1:27)

The answer is, in fact, that the entire Triune God indwells the believers:

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you..."Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:17,23)

So how can the entire Triune God indwell the believers? The answer is simple, because each member of the divine Trinity indwell one another (Separate distinct individuals cannot indwell one another and cannot co-inhere with one another; cannot share in the same substance as one another):

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works." Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; (John 14:10-11a)

"But if I do them, even if you do not believe Me, believe the works so that you may come to know and continue to know that the Father is in Me and I am in the Father." (John 10:38)

"That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me." (John 17:21)

[Ovedya]

There is one God, the Father, AND one Lord Jesus Christ. They are not the same deity.

Then logically you believe in two separate deities, and so must be polytheistic. Then you pray to one deity who is the mediator between yourself and the other deity, the Father. What about the third deity, the Holy Spirit?

[damo1]

Mutzrein i read post #19 and i believe it corrosponds with what ive already thought about jesus's relationship with the father....

Damo....thanx btw im not really a new christian i recieved salvation/the holy spirit when i was 15 but i walked away from it when my church fell apart and god has been pulling me back all these years but i jus now decided to go back....i cant enjoy this world....the problem is b4 i jus listened to everyone else on what the bible said and never investigated myself.....this question i posted is just one of like 5 questions that have really been bothering me....which will have me studying gods word more...and i will also be asking yo all these questions on this forum.

i think that basically jesus is divine, eternal, and lord and that he was acting on gods accord and had the spirit of god in him therefore he was god to us...he was the manifestation of god...through jesus we understand who god is...without jesus we would not....just like when one is praying for another and they recieve a word of knowledge or word of profecy and speaking out of gods love, wisdom, and knowledge, jesus is speaking through that person.....jesus is in there "midst"

Does this make sense??? wow this is starting to make sense lol

I think god wanted us to practice the things that jesus did because through every step of that we would become more like jesus allowing him to work through us...jus like god worked through jesus...thus explaining how we would become one with jesus how jesus and the father became one....By Spirit....

BTW I love this forum and everybody on it......because all of you actually take the time to understand what you believe in...and you respond with thought out answers......

damo1 to getat 151

ah i see were you are comming from as i also was involved in a church that split from the main body and formed with another denomination it hurts when this happens

i still stay in touch with the people from the orgonal church and the ones that formed a new congregation

the church i was in when i first gave my heart to god was a unitting church it was a luthren church but it was very charasmatic penticostal

what hurt me is the arguments and being some one who was only new it realy puzzled me to how a group of people who new each other worshiped with each other supported each other can get to a point were they become enemys instead of being forgivng and understanding you almost see what you see in the real world

you have come along way as i have only just gotten seriouse my self when god shook me up in 2001 i new i had to get real i ran from god since 1988 i was only 18yrs old

though that was the past this is the pressent future and i am thank full for the second chance i have been given as i was way to gone to the point were i was even thinking of never stepping foot back into a church i saw my self better off living in sin and going to hel with the rest of my family and those that i new who i use to work with this is how far i was gone

but when god shook me up i moved to a town were i was not known and this place i am living in know has been a town were it has bought me luck and its been a place were my relationship with my father in heaven has been restored as my relationship with god was not that god

only know can i openly say jesus is lord over my life with out being ashamed or not openly saying i am a christian

i do understand what you are saying

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[getat151]

Damo...thants good to hear your back on track

my relationship with god is not that good right now..there was a time where i was constantly walking in the spirit receiving gods wisdom and seeing his hand in my life...when i started going back to church recently i felt his presence then all of a sudden i didnt feel him anymore and i started to study more and seek him which broght me to asking these sort of questions because they have been messing with my faith as of lately....

in reguards to this debate on this thread u believe that jesus is gods son...but as far as his deity..what do you believe...im curious to know

[Smalcald]

I belief Jesus Is the Son Of God.I belief He Died and rose again.I belief that He Is God...I belief that He has died for me and Will come Again.

That scripture is from Galatians 5.It is taken from there as to indicate how wrong anyone can be if they are still bound down to the law of this world.If you are not letting the Spirit of God move you,why would you attack anyone to make your own statment sound right. But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive everything promised to us who are right with God through faith.

Confronting false teaching is not the same as a "attacking" a person. When someone is wrong, they are wrong and it is not "attacking" them to say so.

In this case, the denial of Jesus' Deity is a heresy in the truest, theological sense of the word because it is a denial of not only the basic teaching of Scripture, but is also a challenge to God's integrity. One cannot love God and reject what His Word says.

One cannot be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. It is simply an impossibility.

Nobody is rejecting the Deity of Jesus. You just don't agree that I believe that Jesus, God, and the HS are all three separate deities that make up the Godhead.

Just a couple of questions cardcaptor to help me understand what you believe.

What in your mind is the difference between the Godhead and God?

Do you believe that God can be in two or more places at once?

Do you pray to Christ?

The Godhead is made up of three separate Gods. God, Jesus, and the HS. They are not all one God with three different personalities and/or functions.

God is omni-present. He is everywhere at once.

I pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. He is our mediator between us and God.

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

When Jesus prayed in the garden, who was he praying to?

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Read the whole chapter and you will see that Jesus is praying to God. Also the whole time Jesus was here on the earth he repeatedly told people that he was here not to do his will, but God's will. If they are the same person why would Jesus go through all the trouble of telling the Jews that her was here doing the will of God and not his own. That alone would cause people to think they were not the same person.

Jesus has been in heaven with God since before the creation of the earth. God, Jesus, and the HS all three had their part in the creation of everything.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

God created all things by Jesus. So, Jesus was there during the creation.

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is one God, the Father, AND one Lord Jesus Christ. They are not the same deity.

Thanks for your response Cardcaptor.

I do disagree as I accept the long held and traditional belief of what the Trinity is, and I think this is scripturally sound, but anyway thanks for answering my question.

[Fraught]

I belief Jesus Is the Son Of God.I belief He Died and rose again.I belief that He Is God...I belief that He has died for me and Will come Again.

That scripture is from Galatians 5.It is taken from there as to indicate how wrong anyone can be if they are still bound down to the law of this world.If you are not letting the Spirit of God move you,why would you attack anyone to make your own statment sound right. But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive everything promised to us who are right with God through faith.

Confronting false teaching is not the same as a "attacking" a person. When someone is wrong, they are wrong and it is not "attacking" them to say so.

In this case, the denial of Jesus' Deity is a heresy in the truest, theological sense of the word because it is a denial of not only the basic teaching of Scripture, but is also a challenge to God's integrity. One cannot love God and reject what His Word says.

One cannot be a Christian and reject the Deity of Jesus. It is simply an impossibility.

Nobody is rejecting the Deity of Jesus. You just don't agree that I believe that Jesus, God, and the HS are all three separate deities that make up the Godhead.

but you said 'a god' ! as the OP stated, it can be difficult to reconcile when you pick and choose scripture but taken all together, it is no problem. God was with abraham's descendants as they left egypt in the exodus. was he not manifest as a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night for about 40 years? yet still he was God. God was in Jerusalem in the years circa about 30 years manifest as a human being yet still he was God.