Is God All Knowing?

[eric]

To add to my last post, and to give some idea where I am coming from, I would like everyone to know that I am not one who has had enough evidence given to me that proves beyond a doubt that God Knew that Adam would disobey His command and eat from the wrong tree that was forbidden. Also I am not a either a staunch follower of the t-u-l-i-p or the d-a-i-s-y theories as they are both flawed.........at least as far as I am concerned..... and I won't be drawn into any debate or argument about that topic. I have deduced my findings straight from the word and am not influenced by any particular student or scholar. I am a born again bible believing christian fundie, who has no ties with any particular denomination.

I like both asking and answering questions and try not to offend.

[Guest shiloh357]

No, I'm trying to say that God is omniscient but that being all knowing doesn't include knowing the future since the future does not exist. God has plans for events and actions to accomplish in the future but the future is not the present and only the present exists. The past doesn't exist except as history and memories, and the future doesn't exist except as plans and hopes.

that is a logical contradiction. You cannot say God is omniscient but He does not know "A" He does not know "B" and He does not know "C." The term "omncscient" cannot be qualified. It means exactly what it means.

It would be like God saying, "I will give you eternal life for 1,000 years. Eternal means never ending, so it cannot be used in a limited sense.

What I am seeing is people saying "God could not possibly have known me 1,000,000 years before I was born" but they have no Scriptural argument to support this. It is an argument based upon nothing but conjecture.

The future does not exist to you, but that does not mean the future does not exist. Since God is not sitting with us inside the cage of linear time, you cannot limit God on the basis of what constitutes reality in our experience. God lives in a much higher "plain" of reality if you will. His minid is as infinite as His existence. He has created a universe so complex we could live another 10 Million years and still never come close to searching it all out. He is the sole sustainer of every atom and every molecule and He can do while taking care of each one of us. I have no problem believing that He knew me and had a plan for my life long before I was born.

When did God know you? Time and place.

There was never a time in eternity past that He did not know me.

If we begin picking God apart and deciding what He does not and does not know, where does it stop? If God is not truly all-knowing, if there are some things God could not have known, then you cannot have any confidence that He knows and hears all of your prayers. I would not trust a car that has brakes that work only 90% of the time, and I cannot stake my eternal future on a God who I cannot trust is able to handle it 100% of the time. If He cannot possibly know everything that is going to happen, then He is not qualifed to be God.

Fortunately, I know and believe that He is God and as God, I can put complete faith in Him and His Word. The Bible says that there is nothing that is not known to Him and the Bible does not qualify that position with any exceptions.

[Guest shiloh357]

Does God know that 2+2=7? No, he doesn

[HAZARD]

shiloh357 wrote;

"I serve the all-knowing God of the Bible. Your "god" is something you have created in your imagination that is subject to what your finite mind is willing to accept as possible. Your god is limited, my God, the God who sent Jesus His Son, is not limited in power or knowledge. I don't know who the god you serve is, but it is not the true God of Bible.

I am Christian, so I believe the Bible. You, evidently, believe in something else and in someone else"

.

If you truly believed in God, as you say you do, who sent Jesus Christ, you would not personalise this thread by accuse 'unred typo' of not believing in God and of not knowing the Bible. This man has been through more than you could ever know or imagine, and without God I personally believe he would no longer be here today. (Sorry unread typo, but this had to be cleared up for a start). The entire Bible cannot be known all at once and all believing people are all at a different levels of understanding. Fundamental Christianity once killed people who said the wasn't flat? Would you have been amongst those who accused and killed? Where in Scripture does it say you are over everyone else in Scriptural knowledge? Discuss the topic without forming a personal opinion on others here.

God knows His "prophised" plan from beginning to end, from creation to Revelation. Scripture plainly shows that He does not know, or even needs to know, unless testing men, such as Adam, Abraham, ect, every single human beings dicision that they may or may not make throughout the entire future not yet here. If God's plan is in any way compromised by any human being, any race of people, or any nation, God has, does, and will alter His plan so that it does come to fruition.

[Guest shiloh357]

If you truly believed in God, as you say you do, who sent Jesus Christ, you would not personalise this thread by accuse 'unred typo' of not believing in God and of not knowing the Bible.

Well the God of the Bible is clear as a bell as to His omniscience. To reject His omnscience is either the product of a lack of knowledge or stubborn unbelief. Either way, I believe the Bible, and I know the God of the Bible and I know what He says.

You can ramble on about what you think God doesn't know, but I know Him personally, and I believe the Bible. A rejection of His omnsicience is a rejection of biblical truth, and it makes me wonder what other parts of the Bible you will also see fit to reject that don't fit your way of thinking. Pretty soon, you'll be denying Jesus' Deity, and the Bodily resurrection of Jesus, at the rate you are going.

You may not like to hear it but you and unread are being very, very decieved. You need stop letting the devil lead you down this path of deception and lies. If you are learning this trash at your church, you need to find a real Christian, Bible-believing Church that teaches the Word of God, and not this bargain basement, second-rate slop that denies God's omnscience.

[HAZARD]

If you truly believed in God, as you say you do, who sent Jesus Christ, you would not personalise this thread by accuse 'unred typo' of not believing in God and of not knowing the Bible.

Well the God of the Bible is clear as a bell as to His omniscience. To reject His omnscience is either the product of a lack of knowledge or stubborn unbelief. Either way, I believe the Bible, and I know the God of the Bible and I know what He says.

You can ramble on about what you think God doesn't know, but I know Him personally, and I believe the Bible. A rejection of His omnsicience is a rejection of biblical truth, and it makes me wonder what other parts of the Bible you will also see fit to reject that don't fit your way of thinking. Pretty soon, you'll be denying Jesus' Deity, and the Bodily resurrection of Jesus, at the rate you are going.

You may not like to hear it but you and unread are being very, very decieved. You need stop letting the devil lead you down this path of deception and lies. If you are learning this trash at your church, you need to find a real Christian, Bible-believing Church that teaches the Word of God, and not this idea that denies God's omnscience.

I am not a member of any man led, man made church. I do believe in Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, and the fact that His Father sent Him.

"If you are learning this trash at your church, you need to find a real Christian, Bible-believing Church that teaches the Word of God, and not this idea that denies God's omnscience"

.

All I have done is quote scripture. If I missunderstand them and if I am wrong, then I am wrong. That does not give you the authority to call what I have quoted and written here bargin basement second-rate slop and trash.

As free moral agents we can believe what we like. God never forces anyone to believe Him in anything. Whether I am wrong or right, thats up to God to judge not you. "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:" (Luke 6:37). Jesus Himself said these words; "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47). So, who made you judge? If I am wrong then all you need say is, "Haz, your wrong because of these Scriptures;" then post them.

You have shown your true colours on this thread, setting yourself up as judge and jury? striking out at the person rather than the subject at hand. I have given many Scriptures which shows what I understand about God and His way of dealing with people whom He created as totally FREE MORAL AGENTS with absolutly their own free choice. All you have done is show your delicate side and your senstivity to your pet theory, and without any scriptures to back up what you believe, have denegrated me and other members of this board. If you would like to debate the topic I will continue, if you want to denegrate and judge me and others here I will cease.

[Guest shiloh357]

If the Scriptures. All I have done is quote them.

And misinterpret them.

If I missunderstand them and if I am wrong, then I am wrong.

I was not referring to Scriptures. I was referring to the rection of God's omnscience.

As free moral agents we can believe what we like. God never forces anyone to believe Him in anything.

Yeah, you can believe what you like. However you cannot believe what you like and assume it is guaranteed to be truth. Anyone can believe what they like. There is what people believe and then there is the truth, and the two are not necessarily the same. You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you like, but so what? What good is the freedom to believe what you like if what you believe is wrong?

Yes, God does not force to believe anything. However, God is who He says He is. The Bible says there is nothing He does not know. The fact is, you can believe what you want, but what you believe is not biblical or Christian when it comes to rejecting the omnscience of God.

Whether I am wrong or right, thats up to God to judge not you.

It is up to all of us. It is up to all of us Christians to test what others say against what the Bible says. I am not judging you, but I am judging your views unbiblical, because they don't match up with how the Bible describes God.

So, who made you judge? If I am wrong then all you need say is, "Haz, your wrong because of these Scriptures;" then post them.

I already did post them, but you ignored them responded with more longwinded online novels about why you can't believe what the Bible says about God's omnsicience. When I post Scriptures, you just respond with more unbelief.

The fact is all you have done is shown that you are unskilled in the most basic principles of literary analysis. You are reading your views in the Bible, and this has forced to you create false premises which lead to incorrect conclusions.

It is not enough to simply quote the Bible. The Devil can quote the Bible and be pretty convincing.

[HAZARD]

If the Scriptures. All I have done is quote them.

And misinterpret them.

If I missunderstand them and if I am wrong, then I am wrong.

I was not referring to Scriptures. I was referring to the rection of God's omnscience.

As free moral agents we can believe what we like. God never forces anyone to believe Him in anything.

Yeah, you can believe what you like. However you cannot believe what you like and assume it is guaranteed to be truth. Anyone can believe what they like. There is what people believe and then there is the truth, and the two are not necessarily the same. You can believe the moon is made of cheese if you like, but so what? What good is the freedom to believe what you like if what you believe is nonsense?

Yes, God does not force to believe anything. However, God is who He says He is. The Bible says there is nothing He does not know. The fact is, you can believe what you want, but what you believe is not biblical or Christian when it comes to rejecting the omnscience of God. If you don't want to believe the Bible, and reject His omoniscience and call Him a liar in teh process, that is certainly your freedom to do so.

Whether I am wrong or right, thats up to God to judge not you.

It is up to all of us. It is up to all of us Christians to test what others say against what the Bible says. I am not judging you, but I am judging your views unbiblical, because they don't match up with how the Bible describes God.

So, who made you judge? If I am wrong then all you need say is, "Haz, your wrong because of these Scriptures;" then post them.

I already did post them, but you ignored them responded with more longwinded online novels about why you can't believe what the Bible says about God's omnsicience. When I post Scriptures, you just respond with more unbelief.

The fact is all you have done is shown that you are unskilled in the most basic principles of literary analysis. You are reading your views in the Bible, and this has forced to you create false premises which lead to incorrect conclusions.

It is not enough to simply quote the Bible. The Devil can quote the Bible and be pretty convincing.

_____________________________________________________________

God had to test Abraham before he was granted the blessings to see if he feared God and would continue to obey Him. Untill God tested him He did not knwo what he would do because Abraham had free choice. When Abraham raised the knife, God stopped him and said "NOW I KNOW," that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me" (Gen. 22:12). When did God know Abraham would be true? When he raised the knife and was about to kill his son, else why test him at all if He already knew? What dont you understand about these three simple words, "NOW I KNOW?" If God knew beforehand, why say NOW I KNOW? If God knew beforehand He would have said I KNEW YOU WOULD REMAIN TRUE, and testing him realy was a waste of time and an emotional strain on everyone for absolutly nothing.

In post 46 you said

"

What I said is that Abraham did not hestitate to offer his son because He knew that God had to keep His Word even if it meant raising Isaac from the dead"

.

God did not give Abraham any promises untill He tested Abraham to see IF he would be true and obedient. If Abraham did not obey God and offer his son, God would not have to raise Issac from the dead, and God would not have given Abraham the promises mentioned in the covenant He made with him. God would have found and used another. The Bible reveals hundreds of instances showing that men have made the wrong choice and deviated from truth and have transgressed some detail of God's will and have broken some law which has caused certain troubles to come to the individual, but not once does it reveal an instance showing that God directly knew and was to blame for any wrong discision that came upon any person or nation. God has allowed men to decide for themselves which way they will go. God has always been the deliverer of His people in any trouble, regardless of the causeof the trouble. God is not the kind of God who deliberately brings upon people afflictions just to have a chance to deliver them. However, God takes pleasure in delivering people from their enemies. To say God knew beforehand that man would become so evil that He wanted to destroy man is to say divine providence is the cause of all evil, sin and sickness, and trouble in life. It is God's desire that no man live in sin. So to say God created man fully knowing that some men would deliberately sin and cause every suffering, and still create such men regardless, is to say that God is the author of sin, sickness, and death. This I will never believe.

[eric]

From Unred,

I think that you will find, as I did, that merely asking or answering the wrong questions brings offence.

I don't see any offence taken by any one so far. Some of your beliefs are somewhat off the wall, but, not necessarily offensive, just in need of addressing. For instance,

Does God know that 2+2=7? No, he doesn't know that. Did God know that the Germans won WW2? No, he doesn't know that. Does God know that Arizona is going to be under 2 feet of water next week? No, he doesn't know that. He doesn't know anything that isn't true. What is true is a fact that is absolute and doesn't/can't change. Knowing the future is like creating a rock too heavy for him to pick up. It's saying that he can know what doesn't exist. It's an oxymoron. A truth that's false or a known unknown.

There is no rhyme or reason in a statement like that. It's a non issue and has nothing to do with omnicience or anything else in this thread.

So, you are saying God does not know the future, because the future doesn't exist yet. It doesn't exist to you maybe, but then you have only a finite mind and time to you is limited. So, okay, lets get hypothetical here for a moment.Let's go back in time 2,700 years when Isaiah was alive, approx 700 hundred years BC. If on that particular date, and according to you, future didn't exist, how was Isaiah able to tell the children of Israel that Christ would be born. how, when, where and why......and....voila.....He was.

As Shiloh, said, you are making a nonsense of all God's prophets and prophecies. You are disputing God's omnicience. You are questiong God's sovereighnty and power. If I thought for a moment that God has not got an eternal future for me, I may as well take stroll across the freeway during rush hour. God has told us, that in the future Jesus will appear to the world visibly as the disciples saw Him leave. You are right about one thing, the future does not exist to our finite minds, and it didn't exist in the minds of the mortals in Isaiah's time either. It maybe Sat 2nd Feb here and Jesus is still here and will be for the future. Or we are all going to be in deep schtook

Replying to Is God All Knowing?

[Guest shiloh357]

If God knew beforehand He would have said I KNEW YOU WOULD REMAIN TRUE, and testing him realy was a waste of time and an emotional strain on everyone for absolutly nothing.

It appears as a waste of time to YOU. That does not mean that God had a different purpose in mind. God's expression of confidence was not the product of God's need for assurance, but rather was for Abraham's benefit. It is no different than a child needing to hear affirmation from their parents. God already knew, but He wanted Abraham to know He knew. You are using over-simplistic logic. You are assigning false values to what God was doing and saying.

God did not give Abraham any promises untill He tested Abraham to see IF he would be true and obedient.

You need to read your Bible. God made promises to Abraham, in Genesis, 12, 13, 14, and 15 and those promises included land, a posterity that would become a nation AND the birth of Isaac. Isaac Himself was promised to Abraham some 30 years before the events of Genesis 21. God made many promises to Abraham prior to his attempt sacrifice Isaac.

To say God knew beforehand that man would become so evil that He wanted to destroy man is to say divine providence is the cause of all evil, sin and sickness, and trouble in life.

No it is not to say that at all. There is a difference between predestination and forekowledge. Knowing that a future event will happen is not the same as causing it to happen. God knew that man would sin. He knew everything, and that is why the Bible says that Jesus was the Lamb considered slain before the foundation of the world. God, even before the first sin was committed, before the world was even formed, already had the plan of redemption in place.

You are trying to limit God to what you think is possible. You seem to bent on what God can't do, according the scope your limited, finite mind. If God cannot know what choices I will make, then there are probably other things God doesn't know. If I can find one area in which God is limited, it stands to reason I can find more. If God doesn't really know the whole future, then maybe He really can't hear every prayer prayed. Perhaps He really doesn't have the ALL of answers to man's problems. Since He is not all-knowing as you claim maybe God doesn't even know you exist.

I mean, if you are going to make the case against God being all-knowing, you cannot pick and choose what God does and does not know. You cannot arbitrarily decide that He knows the things that are important to you, but reject everything else. It is not a smorgasboard where you can pick and choose according to your tastes. If you are going to challenge God's omniscience, then you are going to have to do it across the board and that means putting everything on the chopping block up and to and including your eternal salvation. This isn't Burger King, and you don't get to have it your way.

Your problem is that you want to believe in God, but do on your terms, and not based on how He is revealed in the Scriptures.