The Book of Life and Great White Throne judgement

[Pilgrim7]

Friend Christian,

Two things here brother

1) There is no reference to the Lake of Fire you speak of in Luke 16.

Correct, but there is mention of the torment that the lost suffer which I see is caused by their being cast into the 'Lake of fire'.

2) It seems strange to me that this place of eternal torment would be here on the "new earth with the new heaven", but I guess we are not told of the exact location/proximity of this place in relation to the New Jerusalem? In other words, I don't get the impression that the Lake of Fire is "a place that the saved will be able to go hang out and watch the lost burn on nights they have nothing better to do". (mild sarcasm intended )

The 'lake of fire' is taken from the word 'Gehenna' which is what Jesus usually used to speak of the future punishment in the lake of fire, alluding to the garbage dump near Jerusalem where the fire never went out and the worms never died out, for there was always enough garbage for them to feed on, however Luke used the word 'Hades'.

Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna, the 'Lake of fire').

Geenna (gheh'-en-nah);

Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong # 1067

The place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

This was just south Jerusalem and the smoke could usually be seen. You see the fire and brimstone rains down on them after the

y have been resurrected on this earth, thus they burn where they were as they seek to attack the 'New Jerusalem'.

At this time, after the 1000 years, all are on the earth, Jesus and the saints descend from heaven in the New Jerusalem, Satan is unchained and the lost are resurrected. The focus seems to be the earth. Peter says:

2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The 'lake of fire' is not eternal, but is the method of punishment and destruction of the Lost, thus inflicting on them the wages of sin, the 'Second death', death of body and soul, for all die the 'first death', the death of the body, both righteous and wicked.

I enjoy our times of discussion together, whether we agree or not. I realize that many things are not written in stone, so there is room for disagreement. I find it hard to find many to really dig deep into the Scriptures, without feelings getting hurt. If I am wrong, I want to know it. I enjoy being questioned for it makes me dig deeper to see if I am in error. Yet I can only be convinced by Scripture being added to Scripture, each shedding more light on the truth. When there seems to be a contradiction, then it is my understanding that is at fault and not the Scriptures.

God bless you my Brother, I look forward to many such exchanges,

Dennis

[Christian]

Greetings Brother Dennis,

Blessings to you and thank you for your kind words. I too enjoy our discussions immensely, and hope you know that I think we are more in agreement about our discussions than you realize. My responses, questioning or not, are usually more a method of burning away the overgrowth of weeds(opinions) created by years of other's conjecture, allowing the neglected Truth beneath them to be exposed. My hope and purpose being twofold in that others who read on may finally see these revealed truth's, so simple and beautiful, as they were meant to be; and also that in the process, as you have said, that if my understanding of something is wrong, that the revealed scriptural truth may correct me. I have had clarity given to me on a few things so far in our interactions, I could only hope the same could happen for others. You and I stand firm on scripture explaining scripture brother, and our eagerness to share with each other, and humble stance in doing so is a true blessing I am so very thankful for.

The 'lake of fire' is taken from the word 'Gehenna' which is what Jesus usually used to speak of the future punishment in the lake of fire, alluding to the garbage dump near Jerusalem where the fire never went out and the worms never died out, for there was always enough garbage for them to feed on, however Luke used the word 'Hades'.This was just south Jerusalem and the smoke could usually be seen.

Though I can see the desire to equate Gehenna with the Lake of Fire, I do not believe this to be the case.

Clearly the Lake of Fire we are speaking of in Revelation is derived not from Strongs 1067,

but from Strongs 3041 and 4442...

G3041

Thayer Definition:

1) a lake Part of Speech: noun feminine

G4442

Thayer Definition:

1) fire Part of Speech: noun neuter

If all these references were to "harmonize", as you are fond of saying, I see no point why the same 1067 "Gehenna" reference would not have been used in places like;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15

(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Though I do understand your intention with Luke 16 and Matthew 10:28, neither of these clearly speak of a "lake" of fire, and only one of the two (Matthew 10:28) implies the"gehenna" of fire.

Besides this, in reference to the rich man in Luke 16:23, the usage of "hell" utilizes Strongs #86

G86

Thayer Definition:

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions

2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead

3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

Part of Speech: noun proper locative

Though it does state in that verse that the rich man is in "torments" (G931), this also does not clearly state this to be a "Lake of Fire".

The 'lake of fire' is not eternal, but is the method of punishment and destruction of the Lost...

Then how do we explain this?

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

May His blessings rest upon you dear Brother,

Peace to you,

Your brother in Christ,

Christian

[Christian]

This is something I have studied and don't have an answer for... that every one in Paradise went to heaven when Jesus ascended. How can we know that?

Some of us here touched on that topic in another thread titled "Absent from the body". There usually seems to be a dogmatic/denominational split on the subject which leads most away from solid, unquestionable, Scriptural examples of the event, and they end up using "speculation" as doctrine instead.

What my brother Dennis and I agreed upon was that two Scriptural verse connections might corroborate the viewpoint, for some being taken, not all...we can't say unequivocally.

First;

Matthew 27:52-53

(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

(*Notice it say's "many" bodies of the saints, not "all" here.)

And......

Since Jesus was seen talking with Moses in;

Luke 9:30-32

(30) And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

(31) Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

(32) But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mark 9:4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus

We were only truly comfortable saying for certain that we believe Moses was taken with Christ in this first resurrection.

Apostle Paul says the judgments of the righteous and the unjust are one thousand years apart or at least that is my understanding.

We have just been arriving at that very point in this thread. You might read through Pilgrim7 and my past few posts to catch up to where we are on this.

God Bless Willow99,

His faithful servant,

Christan

[Willow99]

This is something I have studied and don't have an answer for... that every one in Paradise went to heaven when Jesus ascended. How can we know that?

Some of us here touched on that topic in another thread titled "Absent from the body". There usually seems to be a dogmatic/denominational split on the subject which leads most away from solid, unquestionable, Scriptural examples of the event, and they end up using "speculation" as doctrine instead.

What my brother Dennis and I agreed upon was that two Scriptural verse connections might corroborate the viewpoint, for some being taken, not all...we can't say unequivocally.

First;

Matthew 27:52-53

(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

(*Notice it say's "many" bodies of the saints, not "all" here.)

And......

Since Jesus was seen talking with Moses in;

Luke 9:30-32

(30) And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

(31) Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

(32) But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mark 9:4And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus

We were only truly comfortable saying for certain that we believe Moses was taken with Christ in this first resurrection.

Apostle Paul says the judgments of the righteous and the unjust are one thousand years apart or at least that is my understanding.

We have just been arriving at that very point in this thread. You might read through Pilgrim7 and my past few posts to catch up to where we are on this.

God Bless Willow99,

His faithful servant,

Christan

Thank you so much for your reply. I am in an area where there is split opinions on whether any one but Christ has ascended into heaven. It is often confusing for me when hearing both opinions. I really appreciate this thread and hope to learn from it. I agree that only scripture can lead to the truth... scripture backing up scripture.

I will look for the older thread and thank you again.

Willow99

[Pilgrim7]

My Brother Christian,

My point was that Jesus compared the punishment and death of the wicked to the Garbage dump outside Jerusalem, where all refuse was burned or eaten by worms. I am aware of the different word that Luke used to describe the same event.

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions

2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead

3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

Part of Speech: noun proper locative

Definitions 1 and 2 are the Pagan definitions or concepts of 'Hades', which originated in Ancient Babylon. They are a part of the teachings of 'Mystery Babylon'. Hell is a word first used by the RCC when they adopted the Pagan belief in eternal torment. They, the Pagans, believed that upon death the wicked went to to the 'underworld', a place of torment, which Greek mythology called 'Hades' and eventually morphed into the word 'hell'. I have an interesting study on the history of the concept of hell.

Then how do we explain this?

Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The problem lies in the translation and understanding of the term forever and ever. The word means an age or period of time. It does not mean eternity, although many say it does. This can be pr oven without a doubt by the Scriptures. The terms use here 'aeon of aeon' means 'ages of ages' denoting completeness of time. As we know. eternity has no time, thus cannot be related to periods of time. Before sin, there was no time, there was only eternity, endless existence. When sin entered, death entered and time began, in order to deal with sin. Thus a day of judgment was set to deal with the sin and once again enter into eternity.

There are only states of existence which are eternal, life and death. After the end of time, each will be in one of the two states, either alive for all eternity or dead for all eternity. The punishment and death of the wicked takes place before or at the End of time, and thus sin has been dealt with, Satan, the beast, the wicked are all tormented in the 'Lake of Fire' proportional to their guilt, and suffer the second death.

These are complex subjects and difficult to understand. It would require another thread to deal with them properly. We had a topic on this is which we went into this in great detail, but it was closed. Here is the reason, and the Scriptural proof that I spoke of earlier, but first I pose two questions, which to date no one has been able to answer.

Question #1:

If Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with 'Eternal Fire' and therefore suffer eternally, why are the people and the city not still burning today?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Question #2:

If Jesus died for our sins, which He did, and took our punishment for sin, which He did, then why is He not still suffering in 'eternal fire' as we would have to do if He had not taken it for us?. What did He endure for us? He died for us. He suffered torment for us, but not eternally, but for the time prescribed by God, for just before He died, He said 'it is finished', the price has been paid.

You see, we are in agreement again, it is good to question.

I have an inquiring mind and do not just accept what I am told, but search all I can to see just 'what is truth'. As to date I have not found any who could answer the above questions without an enormous amount of 'theological gymnastics'. Any answer has to harmonize with the above.

Whenever I have a question as to the meaning of Scripture, I research all I can, pray for the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, and He always leads me to the Word of God and to the example of Jesus. All truth can be found here.

God Bless you my brother in Christ,

Dennis

[Christian]

Thank you so much for your reply. I am in an area where there is split opinions on whether any one but Christ has ascended into heaven. It is often confusing for me when hearing both opinions. I really appreciate this thread and hope to learn from it. I agree that only scripture can lead to the truth... scripture backing up scripture.

I will look for the older thread and thank you again. Willow99

Willow99,

Greetings to you,and God Bless you for your honest pursuit of His truth. Your situation is not an unfamiliar one to me as I too had often found myself stuck between two (or more) very "rational" views when studying, presented by those who would claim to have the support of the Scriptures behind them. As is obvious in these situations, someone must be right and someone is wrong, if they oppose each other they cannot both be right. (This goes against what is called the "Law of Non-Contradiction" which states: It is not possible that something can be both true, and not true at the same time and in the same context.)

Fortunately for us, we have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures to guide us into all truth, apart from what "man's" opinions about their "translation" or "real meaning" might be. Quite often, things like denominational blindness, artistic license, or self proclaimed "prophet" or "instructor" status that drives these people to adamantly defend their views. Frustration with their inconsistencies is what began my quest for pure Biblical truth, and it started with pulling away from the "teachings" of others on the Bible. I then started examining of the actual words used (Strongs), their usage in context, and the background of the books in the Bible containing them. I continue to learn on a daily basis, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and maintain a non-denominational viewpoint for clarity.

As you may have noticed here in our discussion format, my brothers (and sisters), and I insist on scripture backing up scripture, scripture interpreting scripture. We prefer to present scripture always,whenever possible, to illustrate our points, and just don't take the conversations off into varied speculations and theories based on conjecture. These do no one any good and usually end up causing more strife than is tolerable. So pull up a chair and open your Bible and get comfortable...it's great to have you here with us.

Now regarding your statement above...

As I have already told you our reasoning on Moses, and the reasons why the Scriptures seem to imply him being there (heaven). There are only two other concrete examples of someone else being there that I am aware of, and they would be Enoch, and Elijah.

Genesis 5:24

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God

2 Kings 2:11

(11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

So judging by those scriptures I think we can safely, and correctly say that there are at least two men other than Jesus we know to be there. What do you think?

Blessings to you sister,

His faithful servant,

Christian

[Christian]

Greetings to you Brother Dennis,

The problem lies in the translation and understanding of the term forever and ever. The word means an age or period of time. It does not mean eternity, although many say it does. This can be proven without a doubt by the Scriptures. The terms use here 'aeon of aeon' means 'ages of ages' denoting completeness of time.

Interesting observation, and I think I agree with your reasoning. Had the word o-lawm', o-lawm' (H5769) been used it may have implied a more "eternal" punishment I guess?

As we know. eternity has no time, thus cannot be related to periods of time.

I'm not sure that I'd agree that "eternity has no time", I'd be more prone to saying that eternity would be an "endless time" or "endless period of time". But that is a physics conversation that we should not enter into because we can only theorize at best on it's truth.

Before sin, there was no time, there was only eternity, endless existence. When sin entered, death entered and time began, in order to deal with sin.

I'd disagree with you here too brother, but more on just the viewpoint of your wording. I believe there was "time" before sin as the Creation accounts in Genesis clearly give us "night and day" divisions, which we carry over to construe 24 hour periods. Without this structure our "6 day creation" is nullified.

I'd be more comfortable saying "before sin there was an endless life laid before man, an eternity for him to live.

So if we are not to assume that there is an "eternity" of suffering for the condemned how is it that verses such as Daniel 12:2 seem to utilize a better representation of the word (H5769) for "everlasting"?

Daniel 12:2(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I am going to ponder the two questions you have posed, I do not want to answer in haste (if I even can). Thank you again dear brother for your responses and your company here within our discussion.

May His blessings rest upon you,

in Christ,

Christian

[Massorite]

Friend Christian,

Two things here brother

1) There is no reference to the Lake of Fire you speak of in Luke 16.

Correct, but there is mention of the torment that the lost suffer which I see is caused by their being cast into the 'Lake of fire'.

2) It seems strange to me that this place of eternal torment would be here on the "new earth with the new heaven", but I guess we are not told of the exact location/proximity of this place in relation to the New Jerusalem? In other words, I don't get the impression that the Lake of Fire is "a place that the saved will be able to go hang out and watch the lost burn on nights they have nothing better to do". (mild sarcasm intended )

The 'lake of fire' is taken from the word 'Gehenna' which is what Jesus usually used to speak of the future punishment in the lake of fire, alluding to the garbage dump near Jerusalem where the fire never went out and the worms never died out, for there was always enough garbage for them to feed on, however Luke used the word 'Hades'.

Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna, the 'Lake of fire').

Geenna (gheh'-en-nah);

Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong # 1067

The place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

This was just south Jerusalem and the smoke could usually be seen. You see the fire and brimstone rains down on them after the

y have been resurrected on this earth, thus they burn where they were as they seek to attack the 'New Jerusalem'.

At this time, after the 1000 years, all are on the earth, Jesus and the saints descend from heaven in the New Jerusalem, Satan is unchained and the lost are resurrected. The focus seems to be the earth. Peter says:

2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The 'lake of fire' is not eternal, but is the method of punishment and destruction of the Lost, thus inflicting on them the wages of sin, the 'Second death', death of body and soul, for all die the 'first death', the death of the body, both righteous and wicked.

I enjoy our times of discussion together, whether we agree or not. I realize that many things are not written in stone, so there is room for disagreement. I find it hard to find many to really dig deep into the Scriptures, without feelings getting hurt. If I am wrong, I want to know it. I enjoy being questioned for it makes me dig deeper to see if I am in error. Yet I can only be convinced by Scripture being added to Scripture, each shedding more light on the truth. When there seems to be a contradiction, then it is my understanding that is at fault and not the Scriptures.

God bless you my Brother, I look forward to many such exchanges,

Dennis

Good stuff. Most don't know about the pile of burning refuse in the valley Jezebel. I don't think that the Lake of Fire is the same place as Gehenna or Hades or Torturous. Each of those words speak of three different sections of what we call hell and the bible calls the lower reaches of the earth. We must remember that when King Jamesy's scholars redid the bible they made some changes and the word "torturous" left out. The word "hades means or is "the place of departed souls" and there is nothing that tells whether they are good or bad souls and as we know Hell will be giving up the dead, the sea will be giving up the dead etc. Then judgment was made and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This shows that the lake of fire will remain even after death and hell is cast into it. In Rev. 20:10 says that the devil was cast into the lake of fire and will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The words "for ever and ever" are certainly not temporal but are eternal unless you can find where the bible say that the devil will not be tormented for ever and ever.

You see Dennis I live by one simple rule. If it is not written in the bible it does not exist. If the lake of fire will not last for eternity there should by scripture to back that belief up and if there isn't. Then "it is not". The same goes for the tree of life. If there is no scripture that say that tells us that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Then "they did not".

My own belief is this and it is not written in the bible. Everything Adam and Eve could possible want was provided for them by God. They were Innocent, naked both spiritually and physically, knowing only good with no sin nature until they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Until their fall which was orchestrated by satan they didn,t need to eat from the tree of life because they didn't know any better. They did,t have the need nor the desire to live for ever because they didn't know that they needed to live for ever. For them death wasn't even in the equation. One must know about death before one can consider death. In short. They didn't need to eat from the tree of life because they were going to live as long as God wanted them to until the fall which was their choice and not God's.

[Willow99]

Thank you so much for your reply. I am in an area where there is split opinions on whether any one but Christ has ascended into heaven. It is often confusing for me when hearing both opinions. I really appreciate this thread and hope to learn from it. I agree that only scripture can lead to the truth... scripture backing up scripture.

I will look for the older thread and thank you again. Willow99

Willow99,

Greetings to you,and God Bless you for your honest pursuit of His truth. Your situation is not an unfamiliar one to me as I too had often found myself stuck between two (or more) very "rational" views when studying, presented by those who would claim to have the support of the Scriptures behind them. As is obvious in these situations, someone must be right and someone is wrong, if they oppose each other they cannot both be right. (This goes against what is called the "Law of Non-Contradiction" which states: It is not possible that something can be both true, and not true at the same time and in the same context.)

Fortunately for us, we have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures to guide us into all truth, apart from what "man's" opinions about their "translation" or "real meaning" might be. Quite often, things like denominational blindness, artistic license, or self proclaimed "prophet" or "instructor" status that drives these people to adamantly defend their views. Frustration with their inconsistencies is what began my quest for pure Biblical truth, and it started with pulling away from the "teachings" of others on the Bible. I then started examining of the actual words used (Strongs), their usage in context, and the background of the books in the Bible containing them. I continue to learn on a daily basis, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and maintain a non-denominational viewpoint for clarity.

As you may have noticed here in our discussion format, my brothers (and sisters), and I insist on scripture backing up scripture, scripture interpreting scripture. We prefer to present scripture always,whenever possible, to illustrate our points, and just don't take the conversations off into varied speculations and theories based on conjecture. These do no one any good and usually end up causing more strife than is tolerable. So pull up a chair and open your Bible and get comfortable...it's great to have you here with us.

Now regarding your statement above...

As I have already told you our reasoning on Moses, and the reasons why the Scriptures seem to imply him being there (heaven). There are only two other concrete examples of someone else being there that I am aware of, and they would be Enoch, and Elijah.

Genesis 5:24

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God

2 Kings 2:11

(11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

So judging by those scriptures I think we can safely, and correctly say that there are at least two men other than Jesus we know to be there. What do you think?

Blessings to you sister,

His faithful servant,

Christian

Indeed our situations do seem to be connected. I would have to agree with you on Enoch and Elijah. I too discovered through study that many beliefs being preached didn't correspond with the Word. I began praying for answers and digging for Truth. Many things I believe the Lord has revealed to me but on this I eagerly look forward to any scripture that will prove which view is right.

While studying I found a scripture that I thought settled it in my mind but I find I still am not satisfied.

What do you make of this, dear Christian?

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

God Bless,

Willow99

[Christian]

Indeed our situations do seem to be connected. I would have to agree with you on Enoch and Elijah. I too discovered through study that many beliefs being preached didn't correspond with the Word. I began praying for answers and digging for Truth. Many things I believe the Lord has revealed to me but on this I eagerly look forward to any scripture that will prove which view is right.

While studying I found a scripture that I thought settled it in my mind but I find I still am not satisfied.

What do you make of this, dear Christian?

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

God Bless,Willow99

Greetings to you Willow99,

We need to put this in context so we might shed the proper light on the verses in question.

In this unfolding scene at Pentescost (Acts2:1-41), Peter courageously begins defending those who had just received the Holy Spirit and were speaking in tongues (every man there, no matter where they were from heard them speak in his own language). He confronts the skeptical onlookers who were mocking them and accusing them of being drunk, explaining that this was instead the proof of both the fulfilling of the scripture, and the fruit of Christ's resurrection and ascension. As these men, assumed to be the scribes, Pharisees, and chief priests of the local area, stand mocking them, Peter begins his recitations of Old Testament scripture pointing to this very moment. (It is important to note here that those whom he is confronting do not believe Christ was the Messiah, or that He has been resurrected and ascended).

In Acts 2:17 Peter begins this by quoting Joel 2:28;

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

And then he goes on to start referencing the Psalms of David, the very patriarch whom these men revere highly.

His reasoning is to show them that David himself was speaking of Christ in these verses.

In Acts 2:29 Peter establishes that indeed David has not risen (*see also note below)

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Nobody ever pretended that David had risen, and so therefore he could not be speaking of himself in Psalm 16:10, that he should not see corruption; because obviously he(David)did see corruption.

Psalm 16:10, For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

All of Israel believed that the Messiah was to be the Son of David, that is, by David's "human" nature. But according to the Spirit and by his "divine" nature, he was in actuality to be David's Lord, not his son. God had sworn to David that the Messiah that was promised to his fathers, would be His "Son" and successor, which David kept in view always while penning his psalms. And so only by prophetic, Holy inspiration could David have written what he did, and so since he was not speaking of himself, he was speaking about Jesus.

Thus, when Peter arrives at Acts 2:34 he has established this fact that it was indeed Jesus that was being prophecied and spoken about, by the fulfillment of the very Psalm verses he was quoting.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

In conclusion, by what scripture tells us we have no verse "proof" that David is indeed in heaven.

And the "Lord said unto my Lord" spoken of in this verse is God speaking to Jesus.

Hope that helps,

Blessings to you my dear sister in Christ,

His faithful servant,

Christian

(*Side note from above: Paul used this same position in speaking to those in the synagogue at Antioch in Pisidia Acts 13:14-37,

verses 35-37 making this same point for him)

Acts 13:35-37

(35) Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

(36) For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

(37) But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.