Praying in tongues

[waitingforhim]

I want EVERYTHING that God has for me!!!! I'll be a "holy roller" any day. If it was important enough that the Lord Jesus Himself told the disciples that they needed it-how much more do we??? Being "born again" is only spoke of once in the scripture yet you would not say , "well, it isn't spoken of enough, so we don't need it". I'll be glad to say like Paul "I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all!". It was a NORMAL part of the early Christians prayer life-this was why it needed to be regulated in the Body-they had the opposite problem of the church today-they spoke in tongues when they shouldn't have been. It was a given that Christians pray in tongues-so important that the disciples went where they heard that new beleivers were being born again to make sure they received it. Just like much of the scripture is written to the church-we aren't told over and over again to be saved in those verses-it is a given that they already are saved. Same thing with the baptism in the Spirit. You guys are trying to write your own version of the Bible because you have to skip so much of it to believe the things you are saying.

[Guest mcm42]

words of caution--concern--& the brotherly

-advice to be careful of your words---read & STUDY GOD'S WORD on ANY subject

-BEFORE you speak so vehemently Against any thing in HIS WORD--------Gary

This is beginning to tick me off. You assume I haven't studied? My question is not whether or not Tongues ever had any use, but whether or not they have a use today, which you have yet to answer. You speak french, english, german, greek, swahili, sweedish and maybe more languages, THAT's a gift.

Babbling is no gift. Any moron can run around and spew out nothings at the skies. Let's not blame the Holy Spirit for such nonsense.

I have no problem discussing an issue, but don't challenge my knowledge or lack of knowledge. And don't attack my person.

You talk like there are innumerable passages that I haven't studied. If I've studied 1 Cor. 12-14 and Acts 2,10,19 I've studied all the Bible has to offer on Tongues. The fact is that's IT!

By the way, you never ASKED a question. You said "i'm going to make a statement then a question" Where's the question?

IT'S quite apparent that you have NO use for anyone speaking in {an unknown tongue}or for tongues either...the only trouble with such conclusions{as erroneous as they are} is that you really "prove" your knowledge of scripture is severly lacking on this subject

The way tongues is spoken today, it is Useless, you can not prove that right or wrong by the Bible. Fact is it is pointless today!!!! Your getting frustrated because not even you can come up with one good reason to speak in tongues (I'm not talking about speaking in a language you have learned, i.e. french german etc.)

I know this because all the answers that have been offered, are no reasons at all. In every case the Language you know is just as efficient if not more.

I will not "be careful" on any issue. You want to scare me with your threats of defaming the Spirit, I am not scared, I have studied and you make wild presumptions that you are more well versed in Scripture than anyone who does not agree with your stance (however wrong it may be!!)

I don't attack your study, I don't attack your person, I don't even mock your stance, I simply ask questions as to why. I see nothing wrong with you praying in tongues, speaking in tongues or the like, have at it, I just don't see it as profitable and I will not be expected to waste my time over such things. Your frustration is fueled only by your inability to produce a legitimate answer to the question!

My question stands... Why speak in tongues (I do not mean learning of a language for the sake of evangelism)?

It serves no purpose today, it may have served a purpose, and indeed we see it has, but today it is simply of no use.

[Arthur Durnan]

Bottom Line Based On Holy scripture -

There is NO such thing anywhere in Holy Writ - including 1 Cor. 12 & 14 - re an "unknown tongue." The "heavenly gibberish" of the charismatic individual has no bearing anywhere in Holy Writ.

All Bible languages are KNOWN languages as based on the classic ACTS 2:8-11 passage of Scripture.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[jmwhalen]

Godrulz writes:

" Poor exegesis: I Cor. 13 does not teach that tongues will pass away when the canon is closed or the apostles die. The gifts will not cease until the end of the Age, when we see Him (read the context...knowledge has not passed away yet)."

Shadow2b writes:

"RIGHT ON BRO.--no knowledge??duuhhhhh?? -WeLLLLLLL,IN SOME cases "knowledge has passed away"& in a most silly -manner---yupp"knowledge"died because it was INFECTED with a most vile & -insideous dis-ease--"terminal IGNORANCE"--The saddest part tho was there was -a CURE--A remedy that gave instant LIGHT & LIFE----But was adamantly & -vigorously-Rejected in favour of personal-conjecture--erroneous conclusions--

-personal prejudice--personal bias--hence:personal-individual-denominational-

-"terminal-ignorance"-&-death-deception-destruction---sO sad-sad-sad"

commenting on:

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." 1 Corinthians 13:8

________________________________________________________

My comments:

"Poor exegesis"-Godrulz, you again use this term as a statement of fact without any so-called "exegesis" on your part. Saying, as did Shadow2b concurs, that "...read the context...knowledge has not passed away yet" is typical of those who do not have an argument-phrases like "read the context" are provided without any discussion of the context, hoping that will be a "exegesis".

Specifically, your "argument" is:

1. that since "knowledge has not passed away yet" the sign gifts are still in operation today. You really should reconsider this "exegesis".

If you would read "the context", you would understand that the "prophecies...tongues...knowledge" referred to in verse 8 are clearly the gift of prophecy, the gift of tongues, the gift of knowledge. By your argument, then, prophecy and languages themselves will pass away. Nonsense! Knowledge and languages themselves are never going to cease, nor will there be a time when true prophecies fail to come to pass. Rather, Paul is speaking about the the passing away of the need for the supernatural sign gifts that were given by God to communicate God's word at a time when the written word of God had not been completed.

In 1 Cor. 12:8,9 Paul's reference here is to wisdom, knowledge, and faith is in the context of the supernatural sign gifts(=a supernatural ability given by God, never before known by the recipient, to fulfill a SPECIFIC PURPOSE-discussed in my previous posts). He is speaking of the supernatural gift of wisdom, the supernatural gift of knowledge, and the supernatural gift of faith.

The gift of knowledge, for example, enabled the recipient to know the will of God and the authority to act upon it for the glory of God. The prime example of this gift of knowledge in the Acts period is found in Peter's encounter with Ananias and Sapphira(Acts Chapter 5). In accordance with God's prophetic program in operation at that time, the kingdom saints were to sell all their possessions and share everything in common(Interesting-I 've asked those of the "Back to Pentecost" persuasion why they do not "practice" this-there is a deafening silence when I ask this, or an "exegesis" usually along the lines of "you need to keep it in context" is given). Ananias and Sapphira had sold a piece of property, but had withheld a part of their "capital gains". By laying a large part of their wealth at the apostles feet, it appeared that they had given all to the LORD.

What they did not know was that the Holy Spirit had SUPERNATURALLY revealed their true intentions to Peter(Acts 5:3-6). And approximately 3 hours later Sapphira came in totally unaware of what had happened to her husband, possibly out on a "shopping spree", spending some of the proceeds that she and her husband had conspired to withhold from the kingdom church. Peter intervened and said(Acts 5:8), and she said "Yea, for so much". She plainly "put the noose around her own neck" by lying to the Holy Spirit. Peter then pronounces judgment on her in 5:9-10. Thus, not only had Peter exposed their sins, he also KNEW that it was the will of God to pronounce judgment on these co-conspirators, and used that authority. Peter knew that Ananias and Sapphira had lied to the Holy Spirit and kept back part of the price of the possession they had sold-he had the gift of knowledge! This is a clear "taste" that judgment will be swift and sure in the coming millennium kingdom.

Shall prophecies fail? By no means; Paul is referring to the gift of prophecy. Shall tongues cease? Obviously not, for even to this day languages are being used as a means of communication. Paul is speaking about the gift of tongues, that is, the ability to supernaturally speak in an unknown foreign language for the purpose of imparting the Word of God prior to the full written revelation of Himself was complete. The gift of knowledge shall also vanish away, which, as we have seen, enabled the believer to know the mind and will of God in any given circumstance.

Again, Paul is not saying that "prophecies will continue, but will eventually fail to come true"-nonsense! He is saying that the supernatural gift of prophecy will cease to function or be in effect! similarly, he is not saying that "people will stop talking". Nonsense! He is saying the supernatural gift of tongues will cease to function or be in effect! He is not saying that "knowledge shall vanish away"="a time will come when people will be stupid". Nonsense! He is saying that the supernatural gift of knowledge will cease to function or be in effect! These 3 supernatural gifts represent all the gifts of 1 Cor. Chapter 12; and it is clear that all of these supernatural sign gifts were in effect at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians; it is also equally clear that all these gifts will be done away with at a future date. The question then remains. WHY and WHEN? Which brings us to part 2 of Godrulz's argument...

2. Godrulz says "The gifts will not cease until the end of the Age, when we see Him". I am assuming you are exegising":

" For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." 1 Cor. 13:9,10

Paul in 1 Cor. 12:31 was very clear that a change was in the offing-he instructs the Corinthians that, for the time present, they should choose to exercise the most profitable gifts, such as prophecy. But they were to understand that these miraculous, supernatural manifestations would soon give way to something far superior. The timeline for this change is given in 1 Cor. 13:10.

The context here is knowledge in an incomplete state. Paul, at this time, had only received a part of the knowledge he was going to receive from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven, i.e. he received "progressive revelation"(Acts 9:6,16; 18:9; 22:10,16-17; 26:16; 2 Cor. 12:1; 1 Cor. 11:23-25; Galatians 2:2; Eph. 3:3). 1 Cor. 13:10's context is thus that which is in part=knowledge, that which is perfect =knowledge, so when the perfect knowledge is come the incomplete knowledge is done away with.

Those of the charismatic persuasion, and yourself, teach that "that which is perfect" refers to Jesus Christ, or His second coming("when we see Him"). In short, the supernatural sign gifts will continue until the rapture/second coming, and many times view those who do not possess these gifts are looked down upon as living in carnality. I would remind those who hold this view that the Corinthian believers were anything but spiritually minded(Paul says they were carnal and babes=immature), yet they exercised these gifts to the glory of God. It was not a matter of one's spirituality; rather these gifts were given according to God's plans and purposes at that time(discussed in previous post).

The context mentions nothing about the rapture or the second coming of Christ. The context is knowledge. He is not talking about a person, but a thing which is coming. If this is about the Lord Jesus Christ coming back, as you "exegize", then the supernatural gifts MUST COME TO AN END WHEN HE COMES BACK. This is an inescapable conclusion. But read carefully Acts 2:16:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come...." Acts 2:16-20

But we see that Peter quotes Joel about the Spirit being poured out in the last days when the Lord Jesus Christ comes back, and the supernatural gifts are increased, not stopped! The gifts are in main operation as a sign of that time.

(Additionally, for those who "consult the Greek", the construction of 1 Cor. 13:10 is in the neter gender, which indicates an inanimate object is in view, such as a book. If the person of Christ is the subject of this passage, the construction would require the masculine gender, i.e., to be grammatically correct the verse would have to read "But when He who is perfect is come....."However, since the noun "that" is in the neuter gender, it cannot be referring to Christ).

The word "perfect", in this context, means mature, complete, full(Philippians 3:12,15). Paul is not saying he is sinless...perfect does not always mean sinless. 1 Tim. 3:16-17 is scripture for us to be perfect...mature....complete....This is Paul's last epistle, and notice that it is possible to be "perfect" in this sense, to know in full, but at the time Paul penned his letter to the Corinthians, they did not have the full knowledge of God because it HAD NOT BEEN WRITTEN, so they could only know in part.

Today we do not need the gifts because we no longer know in part-we have the completed word of God through Paul(Colossians 1:25)., to make us "perfect unto every good work".

The sign gifts were withdrawn upon completion of the word of God. We do not need to go outside the word of God. When "that" (the Word of God, in particular, Paul's epistles)which is perfect('teleiosis'-completion-an end accomplished as the effect of a process) is come, then "that"(the supernatural sign gifts) which is "in part"(the incomplete way) shall be done away. With the completion of Paul's epistles the sign gifts vanished away(ever notice Timothy is sick? 1 Tim. 5:23/Trophimus sick? 2 Tim. 4:20/Ephaproditus sick? Philippians 2:25-30/Paul had "Dr. Luke" with him, a physician, and could not get out of prison-compare to Acts 5:19, 12:7-this is a clear indication that the miraculous "signs"/"healings" were passed. Those who deny this cannot read). This is reinforced when we understand that it was given Paul to fulfil or complete the Word of God insofar as extent(Col. 1:25). He completed the scriptures in regard to the Mystery)Romans 16:25, Eph. 3:3, Col. 1:25,26 and others).

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." 1 Cor. 13:11

Paul uses 2 illustrations to confirm his argument.

He begins by contrasting childhood with adulthood(one of the themes of his lovingly correcting the Corinthians for their childish ways-"babes")-contrasting a child with a man, the immature with the mature. The child is the one who is incomplete, or continues to act as though that which is perfect(the written Word of God) has not come. A child is not mature-the child lacks knowledge. The man is the one who puts away childish things and accepts that which is perfect. A man is fully mature, has enough knowledge to live as an adult. This child is the Corithian Church, the Body of Christ at it's beginning, still learning. In Ephesians 2 the combination of Jew and Gentile is a new man, and in 2 Cor. 5:17 we are a new creature, but in it's infancy the Church, the Body of Christ, is a child that needs to grow. Spiritual gifts are childish things that need to be put away. The sign gifts, Paul argues, were the immature way. When we became adults, we put away all our childhood toys. Hence, our immaturity was gradually replaced with a fuller, "complete" understanding of things once we became adults. Thus, the supernatural sign gifts were put aside with the maturing of the dispensation which came with the completion of Paul's revelation.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Cor. 13:12

Here Paul uses a mirror to further illustrate his argument. Unlike today, in biblical times, mirrors were often pieces of polished metal from which one could barely make out his/her image. That is, they were looking into a mirror that was not clear. The general shape of things could be seen-the sign gifts, similarly, were like looking into an "unclear" mirror-they were an indication that everything had not yet "come into focus". Therefore, with the advent of God's written revelation further clarity was given so we could see, as it were, "face to face". That is, God made it possible for us to see more clearly the whole counsel of His will through the His completed written revelation. Again, we "know in part"-the thing being completed is knowledge-the written word of God. When the completion of the mystery revelation given through Paul came, there was no more need of the sign gifts to provide further knowledge and revelation. The Word of God was then complete. Thus the gifts "vanish away", they "cease". "and now abideth faith, hope, charity....."

1 Cor. 13:12 is not talking of the Lord Jesus Christ. We will never see Him when we look into a mirror. The context is still knowledge. The full revelation of the mystery had not been revealed-scripture was incomplete. Paul knew he was to receive more knowledge(2 Cor. 12:1). They had a "fuzzy", general understanding of the Body of Christ, but it wasn't "clear"(hence the mirror illustration). Paul is contrasting how things are now with how things will be seen from when 1 Cor. was written. But from the point of 2 Tim. 3:17, we are complete, throughly furnished. We have God's full word, we no longer need the gifts-so they ceased. This was part of Paul's ministry-to bring the Word of God to it's fullness, to make it complete(Col. 1:25). 2 Tim completed the scriptures.

There is no further revelation from God forthcoming, despite so-called modern day "prophet"'s claims to the contrary.All he has to say is completed and contained in the Book we know as the Holy Bible. There are no more sign gifts, prophecies, or words of knowledge-the reason for these has ceased with the completed written revelation. This is a very unpopular teaching because many churches teach that we can have certain gifts to help us grow. or to help the church prosper. But we are not to live by "feelings", or "experience". But we are not to live by feelings, or experience, but by faith in the Word of God, and the Word of God says these sign gifts were to cease.

Those who support the view that the sign gifts are valid today refuse to discuss the purpose for which they were given. Additionally, they refuse to answer such questions as:

-Why does Benny Hinn, or any other so-called "man of God", need a translator when he is in a country where English is not the primary laguage? Proponents of the "tongues" movement are forced into either 1.redefining the scriptural defintion of tongues, and/or 2. State that the early Acts tongues were different than the tongues manifested at Corinth. Neither position has any scriptural warrant, as discussed in my previous post.

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[Guest mcm42]

boy JM, you've got this down pat! I'm humbled... :t:

, Keep it up, God Bless

[waitingforhim]

There are at least four uses or purposes of unknown tongues, according to the New Testament: (1) as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6); (2) as a gift to edify the church when the tongues are interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10); (3) as a sign for unbelievers that they might believe (1 Corinthians 14:22); and (4) as a God-given provision for effective prayer and praise (1 Corinthians 14:2, 14). In all these cases, tongues is the same in essence, but different in purpose. The misunderstanding concerning these distinctive uses and purposes has brought great confusion among Christians.

Scripture records that the early believers, upon being baptized in the Spirit, began to glorify God in languages unknown to them but imparted by the Holy Spirit. Tongues is the same evidence today when believers are baptized in the Spirit. All believers, when they are baptized in the Spirit, will speak in tongues. However, not all will exercise the spiritual gift of tongues in the church assembled for worship. All will have the evidence, but not all will exercise the public gift of tongues which requires the additional operation of the gift of interpretation of tongues (1 Corinthians 14:12,13). First in a public worship service someone is moved to speak in tongues; then someone is moved by the Spirit to give an interpretation of the utterance. Operating in this realm, the Spirit provides an effective and powerful means of corporate adoration and worship of God. The purpose of the gifts of tongues and interpretation is to edify or build up the church (1 Corinthians 14:2-12).

Praying in tongues during private devotions is an additional ministry of the Holy Spirit. Many believers today testify that praying in tongues greatly enriches their spiritual lives. The limitations of intellect are overcome as the Holy Spirit quickens the human spirit in glorious expressions of worship and adoration. The quandary of limited vocabulary and the inability to express feelings and concerns of the soul disappear as a Spirit-imparted language flows out from the heart. It is as if heaven and earth, time and eternity, God and man all compress together in a glorious act of worship.

[jmwhalen]

waitingforhim writes:

"I'll be glad to say like Paul "I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all!". It was a NORMAL part of the early Christians prayer life"

Comment: As I showed in my previous posts, speaking in tongues always related to Israel, and you just do not accept this despite scripture's testimony. Yes, Paul did say "I thank my God , I speak with tongues more than ye all...."(1 Cor. 14:18). But he also told us in 5th grade English one of the reasons he spoke in tongues at that time, and this explains why he thanked God that He(God) had given him this supernatural sign gift. It was in fullfillment of the jewish prophecy concerning how God was going to deal with unbelieving, Christ-rejecting Israel, "this people"-Is. 28:9-12, 1 Cor. 14:18-22. As outlined in my previous post, speaking in tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, and is never found after God finally set aside(temporarily) Israel at the end of Acts(this explains why Paul and his co-horts were sick......Paul could not get out of prison etc). "Jews require a sign.....", God promised to give the sign of tongues, and Paul said speaking in tongues was a sign for unbelievers, not believers, in fulfillment of God's promise in "the law"-Is. 28:9-12, 1 Cor. 1:22, 1 Cor. 14:18-22.

Every instance of "speaking in tongues" is in connection with doubting or unbelieving Jews-Acts 2:4-7; 10:44-46;19:3-8.

We can further understand Paul's thanking God as follows.

This was a very powerful sign to the Jews, because they "require a sign". The "New Testament" scripture had not been written, and most of the Gentile world was seeped in pagan idolatry and superstition, with little or no knowledge of the "Old Testament". Although Paul was affluent in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek(He was a "Helenistic" Jew-Greek culturally and Hebrew religiously-hence equipped to bring the gospel to the Jew and the Greek-Romans 1:16), there was no way he could have known the vast number of languages and dialects throughout the Roman empire, except by supernatural "assistance"-.by the gift of tongues He would preach the gospel to the Gentiles, and, as exactly like at Pentecost, each one of them would hear it in their own language! This was a necessary supernatural sign gift-it gave Paul on his missions the ability to communicate to every tribe without having to learn their language or dialect.. Thus not only was this supernatural ability to speak in a known language(to the speaker, but not the receiver) a sign to confirm that what Paul was speaking was from God(confirm the Word),, but it made hastened the spread of the gospel.

________________

You write:

"It was a normal part of...prayer life".

No, "speaking in tongues" was not normal. There is no record of the Lord Jesus Christ speaking in tongues. There is very little of this in Scripture, as previous posts have already documented, including Mcm42's astute posts and questions(that never seem to be answered) . This was not normal-you provide an opinion without evidence-there is none.

You say "prayer life". I assume you are referring to "praying in the Spirit" of Jude 20. The common Charismatic interpretation of this verse says that "praying in the Holy Ghost"(praying in the Spirit) refers to speaking in tongues. Nonsense! The Bible also tells us to "Walk in the Spirit"(Gal. 5:16). If to "pray in the Spirit" means to pray in tongues, then to "walk in the Spirit" must mean "to walk in tongues"!

No, to walk in the Spirit means to walk according to the Spirit's leading. To pray in the Spirit, then, means to pray according to the Spirit's leading. The Holy Spirit will prompt us to pray for certain things-when we follow this prompting, we are "praying in the Holy Ghost". This verse has absolutely nothing to do with speaking(or praying) in tongues.

Some may ask, "Is my spirit praying unto God a bad thing?" No, but that is not what tongues are about as abused by certain Pentecostals. If your spirit prayed to God, nobody else would ever know about it. The only time anyone else would find out about "tongues" is if they are spoken to other people!

1 Cor. 14:2 does not support that speaking in tongues is private prayer language. Paul is not saying that tongues is a private prayer language that cannot be understood. He is pointing out the futility of speaking in a language that is unkmown to the hearers. The context of this passage is edification-if someone is speaking in a language that is UNKNOWN to the hearers, how is that edifying? That person is left speaking to the only one who can understand-God! This is why Paul forbade speaking in tongues without an interpreter(1 Cor. 14:28), and explains why the tongues of Acts Chapter 2 DID NOT NEED to be interpreted-at Pentecost, there were people present at Jerusalem from "every nation under heaven". So many languages were being spoken that each person present heard his/her own language being spoken, so no interprretation was needed. But when the local believers in Corinth gathered together and a person began to speak in a language that he did not know, the others in Corinth didn't understand the language either. Therefore, it needed to be interpreted.(The tongues of Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 14 were identical-both were languages. The Bible knows nothing of 2 different types of tongues).

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[godrulz]

We can rationalize away Scripture and experience, or we can yield to God and receive an anointing to be mighty in Spirit rather than weak in the flesh. The gifts are supernatural, so will not always seem rational to our minds.

God= supernatural

Satan= supernatural

Church/believers= natural or supernatural...do not grieve or quench or limit the Spirit in our generation.

[eric]

Thank you John for your input into this thread, because I for one have often wondered about the validity of speaking in tongues before you can receive the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. I have never been able to do it and I have never desired to do it, but when I look back to what I had and what I used to be and compare it what I have now and what I am now, and I dont mean matrially, and where I am headed, I would say it would not be possible without the infilling and the daily refreshing of the Holy Sprit.

The first church I attended after my conversion to christianity was very charasmatic and I was told in no uncertain terms, that I would not be fully saved until I learned to speak in tongues. I think It's false teaching, but I will never argue about it, but I very much doubt that when I meet my Saviour, He will say to me, "Away from me you evil doer, you didn't learn to speak in tongues. I never knew you.

Just another point of view.

eric.

[Guest mcm42]

Scripture records that the early believers, upon being baptized in the Spirit, began to glorify God in languages unknown to them but imparted by the Holy Spirit. Tongues is the same evidence today when believers are baptized in the Spirit. All believers, when they are baptized in the Spirit, will speak in tongues.

Scripture only records this THREE TIMES!! This is a lie, Scripture does not say this of all believers, but of only three instances. It was not even the norm back then! Again I say that you do not at all need to speak in tongue in order to have the Spirit, for plenty in Acts, in fact more often than not, people recieved the spirit without speaking in tongues

(1) as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6); This is a lie and a farce. How come the believers in Acts 2 (which shadow clearly quoted) didn't speak in tongues, but recieved the Spirit, same for the other ones in Acts 8 and in fact any other believer in the BIBLE other than the THREE INSTANCES you have quoted. This did not happend to ALL it happened in three cases, don't act as though every time a beleiver got the Spirit, he spoke in tongues, this IS NOT the case.

(2) as a gift to edify the church when the tongues are interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10); these were obviously not UNKNOWN languages if they could be interpreted! Paul makes it clear that speaking in tongues (ch14 7-13) is in a known language, that is a flute with notes!

3) as a sign for unbelievers that they might believe (1 Corinthians 14:22); Well one for four isn't bad

(4) as a God-given provision for effective prayer and praise (1 Corinthians 14:2, 14). I must refer back to my original argument on this... is it more effective in tongues than in a normal "known" language? I would say that there is not and I don't think you can shoe any Biblical proof that praying in "unknown tongues" is more effective that speaking in known tongues.

that's all.