Function of the Law in Salvation

[Pilgrim7]

Today the function of the Law in Salvation is not understood and thus has been entirely disregarded. A strange situation indeed, especially since Jesus said that He didn

[tsth]

As always, I look forward to it, Dennis.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Pilgrim7]

The Law of God is the just the 'will of God' written in Commandment form. God is sovereign and thus His will is Sovereign, as changeless as He is. Here we have Scripture that equates His will with His law.

Ps 40:8

I delight to do

your will

,

O my God: yes,

your law

is within my heart.

All of God's will is law, for He makes no suggestions. If He says it then it is required, not optional. His people do His will. He put it into commandment form for Israel, for they had been in Idolatry and sin in Egypt and needed to have that sin identified as He led them out of Egypt so they could once again know and follow His will. Thus the 'Ten Commandments' were given, not to save them, for He had saved them by leading them out of 'Egyptian bondage' which was really 'bondage in sin'. Thus the Law was added or written down because they were in transgression of God's will and would now have a written reminder which would forever condemn sin, the breaking of the 'will' or 'law' of God.

Gal 3:19

What purpose

does the

law serve

?

It was added

(given)

because of transgressions

(transgressions of what? transgressions of the immutable changeless will of God in effect since creation),

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

This transgression of the 'will of God' was the result of the 'sinful nature' inherited by every descendant of Adam because of the fall. Man is born with a 'carnal heart', one not subject to the 'will of God', thus the law was added, to show that the 'carnal heart' was not subject to the 'law of God'. Thus the 'Law of God' shows the sinner, not only His sins, but also His sinful nature and the need of a 'new heart', a 'spiritual heart', a 'born again heart', which delights in the 'will of God'. thus the 'Laws of God'.

Rom 8:6

For to be

carnally minded is death;

but to be

spiritually minded is life and peace.

8:7

Because the

carnal mind is enmity against

(the enemy of)

God:

for it is

not subject to

the

law of God

,

neither indeed can be.

Thus the Law cannot save anyone, how could it. It shows us our utter destitution of righteousness, and thus drives us to Christ, not only for forgiveness, but for the 'new heart' that is in harmony with the 'will of God', the 'true born again' experience. How could that which condemns the sinner to death, ever save anyone. All have sinned, broken God's law, and thus are condemned by that Law. No amount of obedience to it can change that, or give the 'new heart'. It takes a miracle of God's grace through faith to forgive transgression and create a 'new heart' in a sinner.

Paul tells us more of this function of the Law in Timothy:

1Tim 1:5

Now the

end

(result, purpose)

of the commandment

is charity

(agape, Godly Love)

out of a pure heart,

and of a good conscience, and of

faith unfeigned

(sincere, without hypocrisy, all of which comes from Christ by faith at the New birth):

1:6

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

1:7

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1:8

But

we know

(do we?)

that the

law is good

,

if a

man use it lawfully

(correctly, which doesn't mean discarding it);

1:9

Knowing this

,

that the

law is

not made

for

a righteous man

(for he doesn't break it),

but for the

lawless and disobedient,

for the

ungodly

and for

sinners,

for

unholy and profane,

for

murderers

[Elbit Pada]

The Law of God is the just the 'will of God' written in Commandment form. God is sovereign and thus His will is Sovereign, as changeless as He is. Here we have Scripture that equates His will with His law.

Ps 40:8

I delight to do

your will

,

O my God: yes,

your law

is within my heart.

All of God's will is law, for He makes no suggestions. If He says it then it is required, not optional. His people do His will. He put it into commandment form for Israel, for they had been in Idolatry and sin in Egypt and needed to have that sin identified as He led them out of Egypt so they could once again know and follow His will. Thus the 'Ten Commandments' were given, not to save them, for He had saved them by leading them out of 'Egyptian bondage' which was really 'bondage in sin'. Thus the Law was added or written down because they were in transgression of God's will and would now have a written reminder which would forever condemn sin, the breaking of the 'will' or 'law' of God.

Gal 3:19

What purpose

does the

law serve

?

It was added

(given)

because of transgressions

(transgressions of what? transgressions of the immutable changeless will of God in effect since creation),

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

This transgression of the 'will of God' was the result of the 'sinful nature' inherited by every descendant of Adam because of the fall. Man is born with a 'carnal heart', one not subject to the 'will of God', thus the law was added, to show that the 'carnal heart' was not subject to the 'law of God'. Thus the 'Law of God' shows the sinner, not only His sins, but also His sinful nature and the need of a 'new heart', a 'spiritual heart', a 'born again heart', which delights in the 'will of God'. thus the 'Laws of God'.

Rom 8:6

For to be

carnally minded is death;

but to be

spiritually minded is life and peace.

8:7

Because the

carnal mind is enmity against

(the enemy of)

God:

for it is

not subject to

the

law of God

,

neither indeed can be.

Thus the Law cannot save anyone, how could it. It shows us our utter destitution of righteousness, and thus drives us to Christ, not only for forgiveness, but for the 'new heart' that is in harmony with the 'will of God', the 'true born again' experience. How could that which condemns the sinner to death, ever save anyone. All have sinned, broken God's law, and thus are condemned by that Law. No amount of obedience to it can change that, or give the 'new heart'. It takes a miracle of God's grace through faith to forgive transgression and create a 'new heart' in a sinner.

Paul tells us more of this function of the Law in Timothy:

1Tim 1:5

Now the

end

(result, purpose)

of the commandment

is charity

(agape, Godly Love)

out of a pure heart,

and of a good conscience, and of

faith unfeigned

(sincere, without hypocrisy, all of which comes from Christ by faith at the New birth):

1:6

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

1:7

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1:8

But

we know

(do we) that the

law is good

,

if a

man use it lawfully

(correctly, which doesn't mean discarding it);

1:9

Knowing this

, that the

law is

not made

for

a righteous man

(for he doesn't break it),

but for the

lawless and disobedient,

for the

ungodly

and for

sinners,

for

unholy and profane,

for

murderers

[Pilgrim7]

Many think that the Ten Commandments applied only to the Jews and refer to them as the Law of Moses. But they were not written by Moses, but by God Himself, and God always refers to them as 'His Laws', which they are. The Laws of God are as changeless as He is, defining His will and His definition of Sin, for all mankind, not just the Jews.

Pro 3:1

My son,

forget not

My Law

;

but let your

heart keep

My Commandments

:

3:2

For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to you.

3:3

Let not mercy and truth forsake you:

bind them

about thy neck;

write them

upon the

table of your heart

:

Sin is a problem for all mankind, thus God's Laws identify sin for all mankind, not just the Jews. The Jewish people were just God's chosen vehicle to make 'His will' known to the world. Thus Paul demonstrates in His writings:

Rom 3:19

Now we know that

what ever the law says

,

it says to those

who are

under the law

(under the condemnation of the Law because of transgression):

that

every mouth

(Not just Jewish mouths)

may be stopped,

and

all the world

(not just the Jewish world)

may

become guilty

before God.

3:20

Therefore

by the

deeds of the law

there shall

no flesh be justified

(how could any be justified by the deeds of the law, for it is the Law which condemns them for their transgressions of it, no amount of keeping of the law can make up for one transgression)

in his sight: for

by the law

is the

knowledge of sin

(not just for the Jewish people, but for all the world until the Judgment. after which there will be no more need of identifying sin).

Here again we see that Paul understood the function and purpose of the Law as did Jesus when He said that the Law would remain until 'heaven and earth pass away' after the judgment.

What then does Paul mean when He says that the 'believer' is not under the law? This becomes very clear when we understand His meaning of being under the law as being under the condemnation of the Law as shown above. The 'believer' has been 'forgiven' for for his/her transgressions of God's law, and therefore is not condemned by that Law and thus not under the curse of the Law which is death in the Lake of fire. The Law is not the curse, the penalty for transgression of that law is the curse.

Gal 3:10

For

as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:

for it is written,

Cursed

(condemned)

is every one

that continues not in all things which are written in the

book of the law

to do them.

(since no one has kept the law continually from birth, all are cursed, for all have sinned whether Jew or Gentile)

3:11

But that

no man is justified by the law

in the sight of God, it is evident: for,

The just shall live by faith.

3:12

And

the law is not of faith:

(the thinking that a man who is condemned by the law can be justified merely by keeping the law even though he has transgressed the law at some point is foolishness, but was the thinking of the Jews at the time)

but, The man that does them shall live in them

(and there is no man that has lived in perfect obedience to them, thus he is need of a Savior through faith).

3:13

Christ has redeemed us from

the

curse

of the law,

(not obedience to the Law, for God's Law is not a curse, but a reflection of 'His will')

being

made a curse

for us:

(Scripture says that Jesus was made to be sin for us and thus suffered the curse of sin for us, see below)

for it is written,

Cursed is every one

that hangs on a tree:

3:14

That the blessing of Abraham

(who kept God's laws by faith)

might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that

we might receive the

promise of the Spirit

(who does no lead anyone to break God's laws)

through faith .

2co 5:21

For

He

(God)

has made Him

(Jesus)

to be sin

for us

,

who knew no sin; that

we might

be made the righteousness of God

in him

.

Thus we see that God's conception of 'under the law' is vastly different from 'man's conception'. Man says that 'not being under the law' means that he/she doesn't need to keep it. God says that the whole problem of man is that he won't keep His Law and thus that put him under the curse of God. God sends Jesus to fix the problem of sin, to forgive those in transgression and dwell in their hearts to 'keep them from sin' and any further transgression of His will. Jesus didn't die for man's sin just so he can go on in transgression of God's laws, but to save him from his 'carnal nature' which was captive to sin and thus subject to the curse of transgression.

Next we will look deeper into the blessings of obedience to God's will and it relationship to the 'new creature' who has been 'born again' by the Holy Spirit of God and is now led by that Holy Spirit into all holiness, which would include obedience to His Holy Laws because He has been saved from sin.

God Bless all,

Dennis

[eric]

Thank you Dennis for sharing that. Very easy to read and understand.........keep going.

[Guest shiloh357]

Everything You have written is actually really good, Pilgrim and I agree with everything in your OP. The only thing that I quibble with is this:

Many think that the Ten Commandments applied only to the Jews and refer to them as the Law of Moses. But they were not written by Moses, but by God Himself, and God always refers to them as 'His Laws', which they are. The Laws of God are as changeless as He is, defining His will and His definition of Sin, for all mankind, not just the Jews.

The word "Torah" in Hebrew often mistranslated as "law," is never limited to the 10 commandments. It includes them but always includes all 613 commandments.

All 613 commandments were given to Moses by God at Sinai. While the 10 commandments were specifically written by God, nowhere does the Bible elevate them or set them apart as "The law." In fact all of the 613 are considered as having come from God. This confirmed by Exodus 24:4, and Deut. 31:9. In both places Moses wrote down the law as given by God and neither are limited to the 10 commandments.

Jesus said that the two greatest commandents of the law are to love God with all of our heart, sould and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves, and neither of those commandments are contained in the 10 commandments but Jesus says they are greater than the 10 commandments. In fact the 10 commandmets hang on these other two.

The seven Annual Festivals are not part of anything Moses dreamed up. They are called God's Festivals, or His appointed time. Please note Leviticus 24: 2, 4, and 37.

Elsewhere the Bible does call them "your feasts" when God is speaking to Israel, but that is only in the sense that they were given to them as a gift. Ulimately, they are the Lord's feasts, His appointed times. They were not an invention of Moses or the Jewish people.

We must be careful not to limit the Torah/law to just the 10 commandments as God does not limit them in that way.

[Vickilynn]

Everything You have written is actually really good, Pilgrim and I agree with everything in your OP. The only thing that I quibble with is this:

Many think that the Ten Commandments applied only to the Jews and refer to them as the Law of Moses. But they were not written by Moses, but by God Himself, and God always refers to them as 'His Laws', which they are. The Laws of God are as changeless as He is, defining His will and His definition of Sin, for all mankind, not just the Jews.

The word "Torah" in Hebrew often mistranslated as "law," is never limited to the 10 commandments. It includes them but always includes all 613 commandments.

All 613 commandments were given to Moses by God at Sinai. While the 10 commandments were specifically written by God, nowhere does the Bible elevate them or set them apart as "The law." In fact all of the 613 are considered as having come from God. This confirmed by Exodus 24:4, and Deut. 31:9. In both places Moses wrote down the law as given by God and neither are limited to the 10 commandments.

Jesus said that the two greatest commandents of the law are to love God with all of our heart, sould and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves, and neither of those commandments are contained in the 10 commandments but Jesus says they are greater than the 10 commandments. In fact the 10 commandmets hang on these other two.

The seven Annual Festivals are not part of anything Moses dreamed up. They are called God's Festivals, or His appointed time. Please note Leviticus 24: 2, 4, and 37.

Elsewhere the Bible does call them "your feasts" when God is speaking to Israel, but that is only in the sense that they were given to them as a gift. Ulimately, they are the Lord's feasts, His appointed times. They were not an invention of Moses or the Jewish people.

We must be careful not to limit the Torah/law to just the 10 commandments as God does not limit them in that way.

Shalom,

Dennis, I concur with everything Shiloh has written, in fact, I was going to write basically the same response until I read his and he said it better than I could.

Everything you have written is great and I agree, EXCEPT that you limit G-d's Laws to the 10 commandments and separate them from the rest of the Law. G-d never does this.

I'll repeat what Shiloh has said so well and then look forward to reading more from you on this topic:

We must be careful not to limit the Torah/law to just the 10 commandments as God does not limit them in that way.

[Pilgrim7]

Brother Shiloh,

As usual I appreciate your reply.

The word "Torah" in Hebrew often mistranslated as "law," is never limited to the 10 commandments. It includes them but always includes all 613 commandments.

We are in agreement. This is why context plays a vital role in determining just what aspect of the Law that is being spoken of.

All 613 commandments were given to Moses by God at Sinai. While the 10 commandments were specifically written by God, nowhere does the Bible elevate them or set them apart as "The law." In fact all of the 613 are considered as having come from God. This confirmed by Exodus 24:4, and Deut. 31:9. In both places Moses wrote down the law as given by God and neither are limited to the 10 commandments.

Yes, all the Law and Prophets came from God. Moses was just the intermediary beteen God and His people. However the Bible does differentiate between 'commandments, statutes, testimonies and judgments'.

Deu 6:1

Now these are the

commandments,

the

statutes,

and the

judgments,

which the LORD your God commanded

to teach you,

that

you would do them

in the land whither you go to possess it:

6:2

That

you would fear the LORD

your God, to

keep all his statutes

and

his commandments

,

which I command you, and your son, and your son's son, all the days of your life; and that your days may be prolonged............

6:17

You shall

diligently keep the commandments

of the LORD your God, and

his

testimonies

,

and his

statutes,

which he has commanded you.

I am sure you are aware that the 'Ten Commandments' were specially referred to as the 'testimony' of God for before He wrote them with His own finger, He personally spoke them to Israel, thus they were His personal 'testimony' to them and were accorded more importance, being placed inside the 'Ark of the Testimony' above which was the 'mercy seat' where the 'presence of God' dwelt. From the 'mercy seat' God forgave the Transgressions of that law, which were the foundation of His justice.

Jesus said that the two greatest commandents of the law are to love God with all of our heart, sould and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves, and neither of those commandments are contained in the 10 commandments but Jesus says they are greater than the 10 commandments. In fact the 10 commandmets hang on these other two.

Absolutely! Those are the 'Two greatest Commandments'. Everything that God requires of His children are included in those two 'great commandments' upon which all the others are dependent upon. No amount of obedience or commandment keeping is acceptable to God without this 'agape love'. The 'Ten Commandments' are not the sum total of righteousness, just the beginning, as the sinner repents from his sin, transgression of these commandments, and turns to Jesus to cleanse him from sin and keep him from sin. The one who loves God with all His heart, mind, soul and strength, will keep the first four, and the one who loves His neighbor will keep the last six, and go way beyond these, not leaving any of the Ten 'big ones' out.

The seven Annual Festivals are not part of anything Moses dreamed up. They are called God's Festivals, or His appointed time. Please note Leviticus 24: 2, 4, and 37.

Hmm, I don't see where anyone has said that Moses dreamed anything up. It would be best not to assume what has not been said or even hinted at. This thread is about the function of the Ten Commandments in Salvation, not the 'festival laws' which are 'ceremonial' in nature. God is not going to judge the world by the 'ceremonial law'.

We must be careful not to limit the Torah/law to just the 10 commandments as God does not limit them in that way.

No one has limited anything here. We are discussing the 'Ten Commandments', the 'Testimony of God', which was placed inside the 'Ark of the Testimony', what God, through Paul, calls the 'law of sin and death', which condemns the entire world to judgment for their transgression, which is sin, unrighteousness, and reveals the will of God in those 'Ten Commandments as a vital part of Righteousness. They are what 'awake the sinner to His need of righteousness and a Savior'.

1Cor 15:34

Awake to righteousness

,

and

sin not

(stop breaking God's Commandments, His Testimony)

;

for

some have not the knowledge of God:

I speak this

to your shame

.

A cursory reading of 1Corinthians will reveal that Paul is dealing with sin, the breaking of the 'Ten Commandments' by the Corinthians 'believers'. This was a shame for them for they didn't understand the 'function of the Testimony of God'.

It is nice that we agree, but I love you anyway, whether you agree or disagree, even when, no, especially when you quibble.

God Bless,

Dennis

[Guest man]

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