Christians and the state lottery

[Vickilynn]

So you see no difference between those who accept Christ and those who don't?

Not in this country not really at all.

Shalom Smalcald,

That's really sad. It's sad that you can't see the good, caring, HOLY (not because of their works but because of Messiah's righteousness!) people of G-d. It doesn't mean they are not there, living for Jesus, it means you aren't recognizing them because you are wrongly judging them as sinners.

If a space alien landed in the US say in San Francisco or New Orleans or yes Vegas, and was handed a New Testament and told this is what the majority of these people believed and looked around he would be confused indeed.

Sorry, that's a wild one. And I disagree. You have no way of knowing anything like that.

We/I have become so desensitized to sin that we not only accept it but we enjoy it with everyone else.

Maybe YOU have, but I haven't. Please don't speak for me.

I am no better either. It is very hard indeed to live as we should as Christians in this country. How do we do that without being judgmental, holier than though jerks is the real question? I don't like to be some sort of boring judgment jerk who complains about gambling and drinking and porn and most of what is on T.V. and so forth, it is not healthy to be in that mood all of the time. So for me I do wrestle with how to really resist this culture and follow Christ as He calls us to be totally and radically different from the World to reject the world and the things of the World, money, power, the pride of life, revelries, to weep over sin to not approve of sin; without being different only for the sake of self righteousness, which is actually worse than the things we may complain about! This is not an easy path any of us have chosen.

ON that we agree.

[Smalcald]

I think once again you are confusing what I am saying about culture with what I am saying about individuals and individual judgment.

For example I have met many many individual people living as faithful Christians, many if not most of them make me ashamed of my own walk and spur me to renew my own faith and path with Christ. I am sure that includes most of the people on this board including those who disagree with me.

But after saying that, we live in a country that leads the WORLD in the production, distribution and consumption of porn, we have one of the highest divorce rates and abortion rates among all western industrialized countries, we are basing a good portion of our economy on things like gambling, our violent crime rate, things like theft and murder are higher than most of Europe, not just by a little bit but by a lot. On and on just going down the Commandments or looking at how the New Testament calls us to live, we as a group as a nation (different from the individuals) are doing horribly are doing WORSE than places that are not majority Christian. How can we even hope to evangelize in conservative cultures for example, who do take things like marriage seriously who totally outlaw abortion and porn, who have much lower rate of violent crime, how do we go and say well you should be like our country because this is how Christians live?

So no if someone from outside came here and saw our murder rate, turned on the T.V. and saw what we call entertainment with the violence and sex shown or simply talked to the numerous divorced people, or maybe saw the gay pride parade going on celebrating that lifestyle, no they would have zero indication that this was any sort of place that Christians had much influence or were in the majority.

[Richard_yaash]

I have heard people actually say that Christians should not go out to see movies...Or even rent them in a video store...Their reason...

Movie theaters have more than one screen and play rated R moves on those screens. Even if you are goin to watch a PG movie, someone might assume you are going to watch a rated R movie and it will be a bad witness. The same for video stores, other people can't know what video you are renting so you should not go in them because some stores carry really bad videos.

Am I causing another to stumble if I go to see a movie or go into a video store to rent a movie? Even though I am not renting or watching anything that is displeasing to the LORD?

It is regrettable IMO that it seems to come down to such as this. It is impossible IMO to live life to the point that we do not cause offense. For offenses will come. All we can do, if we are made aware of it, is to cease in the presence of the person. If we truly attempted to live life in such a manner as to never be an offense, we would cease to live, we would cease to be effective. Nor, can we allow ourselves to be bound by every 'weakness' that is presented to us, for again not only would we cease to live, we would cease to effective. However, is that not what our very adversary desires?

Not only that, but we would be totally bound from speaking His Word, of His Truth, of His Love, of His Sacrifice, for each of these is an offense to some. No! We can not allow ourselves to be silenced! We can not allow ourselves to be bound, we are a people who have been purchased, bought by the very blood of Christ Jesus. We have been set free to be slaves of Him who purchased us:

1 Corinthians 7:21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don

[Vickilynn]

By the way, I don't know who will win for Governor in North Carolina, but I hope it won't be the Democratic candidate. The last two have been tax and spend liberals. It is so bad, I have thought it might be time to move to Tennessee. North Carolina has one of the highest tax rates among southern states.

Shalom Butero,

A fellow tarheel here. I agree with you!

[Massorite]

I have heard people actually say that Christians should not go out to see movies...Or even rent them in a video store...Their reason...

Movie theaters have more than one screen and play rated R moves on those screens. Even if you are goin to watch a PG movie, someone might assume you are going to watch a rated R movie and it will be a bad witness. The same for video stores, other people can't know what video you are renting so you should not go in them because some stores carry really bad videos.

Am I causing another to stumble if I go to see a movie or go into a video store to rent a movie? Even though I am not renting or watching anything that is displeasing to the LORD?

It is regrettable IMO that it seems to come down to such as this. It is impossible IMO to live life to the point that we do not cause offense. For offenses will come. All we can do, if we are made aware of it, is to cease in the presence of the person. If we truly attempted to live life in such a manner as to never be an offense, we would cease to live, we would cease to be effective. Nor, can we allow ourselves to be bound by every 'weakness' that is presented to us, for again not only would we cease to live, we would cease to effective. However, is that not what our very adversary desires?

Not only that, but we would be totally bound from speaking His Word, of His Truth, of His Love, of His Sacrifice, for each of these is an offense to some. No! We can not allow ourselves to be silenced! We can not allow ourselves to be bound, we are a people who have been purchased, bought by the very blood of Christ Jesus. We have been set free to be slaves of Him who purchased us:

1 Corinthians 7:21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don

[Fraught]

Why not just have government sponsored prostitution, or maybe we could legalize pot and fund our schools with the tax revenues from that?

Shalom,

Oh Smalcald. <sigh>

OK now, the state lottery is the same as legalized prostitution and marijuana use?

Can we say STRAW MAN fallacy?????

Back to the question at hand, how is a $2.00 scratch off ticket per week ANY different than a $2.00 raffle from the Christian school per week? Some of the proceeds help the school. The person buying a $2.00 ticket CAN afford it and is not out breaking in homes and selling drugs to raise the $2.00.

So, is the $2.00 scratch off any different than a $2.00 raffle ticket from a Christian school?

i don't see any difference myself.

[WayneB]

Wayne, i have a question for you...

yes, gambling can be a snare for some. is that our responsibility? does it make gambling, in and of itself, wrong because some might be lured into it?

and if so, then what about every other activity under the sun? others have already mentioned things like smoking, drinking, etc., so i'm going to step outside the box and go a little further.

how about fast food chains? that is definitely a trap, a snare, for many many people. does that mean we should condemn all BK's and McD's?

or what about starbucks? is that not a snare for people?

or laying beside the pool during the summer.... should we condemn apartment complexes for having such a temptation that might lead some tenants to waste their days soaking up the sun instead of being busy about the Lord's work?

televisions... oh my gosh, talk about a snare! should we throw our tv's in the garbage and start protesting outside of electronics stores?

anything, EVERYthing, can be a snare for some people. there isn't a single activity or consumable product that can not become an idol or addiction in somebody's life... heck, i even saw an episode of "untold stories of the ER" once where a woman was addicted to eating toilet paper!

LadyC, you are a blessing and a wonderful sister in Christ. I have no doubt of that.

Regardless, you and I have different viewpoints based on our environments and personal experiences. I'm not going to attempt to draw the line in the sand but simply I have shared what I consider a "snare" for me and others and what I avoid.

One example...

As a younger man, I had a serious issue with sexual lust. I married when I was 19 to my high school sweetheart and have NEVER had a relationship with another woman. Why? ...because I knew it would have been a "snare" for me (and I lived in fear of my wife ). I will NOT visit a Hooter's restaurant anymore (although I joke about it with my wife) and I do not like going to the beach in summer. Too much "eye candy" for me. It is a snare for me. Oh man, then comes television. Yes, I watch television but I do NOT subscribe to the premiums channels and I have locked out the channels that have adult oriented programs. Only my wife has the code and she ain't gonna give it to me. Yes, unfortunately even with regular stations like ESPN, you have to be careful. Try watching a basketball game without a commercial for the Hooters Beauty pageant! Now am I suggesting that all women be dressed in Burkas? Not at all. It is my problem and my responsibility to avoid. I just ask for it not to be put in my face.

Gambling actually isn''t a snare for me but I have seen many for who it is. That is my experience and I just don't see any benefits in it. ...and I do not see how a poker game between friends compares to a casino full of strangers playing the slots or a State sponsored lottery.

Alcohol isn't a snare for me but it was for my father and grandfather who were both alcoholics...so I have to be careful and avoid the trap.

McDonalds...now you hit close to home. Yup...big snare!!! If they had gold cards, I have one!!!! ...maybe even a platinum. Regardless, I don't see how you can compare a man gambling away his week's earnings to me having a Big Mac.

We can go on and on but it simply comes down to the issue that we are two different people living in two different places. You haven't seen what I see and I haven't seen what you see. Where do we draw the line????

James Macdonald preached a sermon on Moral Purity and in it he spoke on this issue. He likened going through life as driving a car. There is always the possibility of getting in an accident but should we not avoid those conditions that could get us in an accident? How do we do it? We obey the traffic laws and drive safely. Are we guaranteed to not have an accident? No but the risk is lessened when we obey the laws of the road AND safe driving. It is not just about the law but often we just need to avoid those conditions that can lead to an accident. If we have an accident, it doesn't mean certain death but it could and of coarse, there are always consequences.

The point? NO one in their right mind would drive 100 mph on a winding mountain road smashing into the guard barriers putting them to the test. So why do we go through life doing these things? We should avoid those things and situations that can trap us and if we aren't sure, why not take the safe approach? Like I mention...it isn't always the LAW but also looking out for the other drivers and using safe driving skills. We are, after all, a LIGHT on a hill.

Be Blessed,

wayne

[Guest LadyC]

hi wayne, you're right, we both come at life with different experiences and backgrounds! but that essentially was the point i was trying to make.... the BK and McD's would probably have been a better analogy had i said sitting down at denny's for a big HAM steak lol, but i think ya get the drift... with the fast food chains i was thinking of gluttony. but the pork analogy would have been better.

anyway, it all comes down to what you hit on there. we can't draw the line in the sand, because everybody looks through a unique set of lenses. we can't possibly know what is or isn't a snare for the strangers we can encounter, and personally i don't think we should be fretting over it. but we certainly have a responsibility to abstain from that which we know is a stumbling block for those in our presence!

by the way, my husband doesn't know the 4 digit code to access those adult channels either

[Guest]

Amen!

[WayneB]

hi wayne, you're right, we both come at life with different experiences and backgrounds! but that essentially was the point i was trying to make.... the BK and McD's would probably have been a better analogy had i said sitting down at denny's for a big HAM steak lol, but i think ya get the drift... with the fast food chains i was thinking of gluttony. but the pork analogy would have been better.

anyway, it all comes down to what you hit on there. we can't draw the line in the sand, because everybody looks through a unique set of lenses. we can't possibly know what is or isn't a snare for the strangers we can encounter, and personally i don't think we should be fretting over it. but we certainly have a responsibility to abstain from that which we know is a stumbling block for those in our presence!

by the way, my husband doesn't know the 4 digit code to access those adult channels either

Tell him 0000 won't work either.

Regardless sister, just be careful with your driving as you negotiate these obstacles and if you do have an accident, we have great "assurance", don't we? ...and keep an eye out for the other drivers. Sometimes they may not have the same ability as you to negotiate those dangers and obstacles we face daily on the road.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

wayne