Examples of Apostasy

[eric]

I matt10:32-33, who ever shall confess Me before before men, I will confess before my Father who is in heaven...but who ever shall deny me before men, I shall also deny before my Father who is in heaven.

To deny Him in this instance, I believe is to deny the deity of Christ, which mormons do, so I will go along with apostacy.

[jenwat3]

ddavid, in both cases i think this is a confusion issue. i do believe that apostasy is alive and well in america today, but i don't think your examples indicate apostasy. in both cases, the individuals seem to still be seeking God, they're just really screwy about who God actually is. they haven't turned their back on Him, at least they don't know they have... and while i do believe that a person can become apostate and give up his inheritance, including the gift of eternal life, i'm a firm believer that it doesn't happen by accident, or without that person's full awareness and intent.

apostasy is the willful rejection of salvation. mormons aren't rejecting salvation, they fully believe they will be in heaven... and a higher level of heaven than the rest of us they THINK they are serving God. they WANT to be serving God. they just don't have a grasp of who God IS.

Does anyone have a full grasp of exactly who God is? Does any denomination have it "exactly right"? There are so many denominations today, how does one determine the true Church?

[Treasure]

This is what Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary says

6:1-8 Every part of the truth and will of God should be set before all who profess the gospel, and be urged on their hearts and consciences. We should not be always speaking about outward things; these have their places and use, but often take up too much attention and time, which might be better employed. The humbled sinner who pleads guilty, and cries for mercy, can have no ground from this passage to be discouraged, whatever his conscience may accuse him of. Nor does it prove that any one who is made a new creature in Christ, ever becomes a final apostate from him. The apostle is not speaking of the falling away of mere professors, never convinced or influenced by the gospel. Such have nothing to fall away from, but an empty name, or hypocritical profession. Neither is he speaking of partial declinings or backslidings. Nor are such sins meant, as Christians fall into through the strength of temptations, or the power of some worldly or fleshly lust. But the falling away here mentioned, is an open and avowed renouncing of Christ, from enmity of heart against him, his cause, and people, by men approving in their minds the deeds of his murderers, and all this after they have received the knowledge of the truth, and tasted some of its comforts. Of these it is said, that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. Not because the blood of Christ is not sufficient to obtain pardon for this sin; but this sin, in its very nature, is opposite to repentance and every thing that leads to it. If those who through mistaken views of this passage, as well as of their own case, fear that there is no mercy for them, would attend to the account given of the nature of this sin, that it is a total and a willing renouncing of Christ, and his cause, and joining with his enemies, it would relieve them from wrong fears. We should ourselves beware, and caution others, of every approach near to a gulf so awful as apostacy; yet in doing this we should keep close to the word of God, and be careful not to wound and terrify the weak, or discourage the fallen and penitent. Believers not only taste of the word of God, but they drink it in. And this fruitful field or garden receives the blessing. But the merely nominal Christian, continuing unfruitful under the means of grace, or producing nothing but deceit and selfishness, was near the awful state above described; and everlasting misery was the end reserved for him. Let us watch with humble caution and prayer as to ourselves.

I think it's apostasy.

[Guest man]

Does any denomination have it "exactly right"? There are so many denominations today, how does one determine the true Church?

One of the main reasons I stay away from the physical church.

Off topic, I know.....sorry.

As you were.

[psalmone]

I am not fully conversant with mormonism, but I am fully persuaded of the gospel. Mormonism seemed to answer some questions that people have that the Bible does't offer, then again so does the occult, but not all things are expedient.

The Lord wants us to live by faith, and to "transform" as we grow in the knowledge of that unconditional love revealed in Jesus, and not be impatient and yield to the (quick and easy solutions), itching ears and the carnal mind might desire, or else we probably never understood. I understand the selection of our authorised writings are closely in regard of "the scarlet cord" esteeming blood sacrifice from Eden to Calvary, where the spirit the water and "the blood" bare witness of the highest state man has known, in JESUS CHRIST. While we live we're called to carry or cross and fellowship in His sufferings, and to not be enticed by another gospel.

IMO because of the many alternative experiences mankind has had the priviledge to experience, some have forgotten the anchor that keeps the soul. The Word prophecies a great falling away in the end-times, I don't believe there's any other reference of faithfulness than Jesus' gospel.

[Treasure]

psalmone says:

Mormonism seemed to answer some questions that people have that the Bible does't offer, then again so does the occult, but not all things are expedient.

The Bible doesn't literally answer everything because we don't need to have answers for everything. That doesn't mean that Mormonism or any other cult or religion has answers. It means that we have everything in the Word of God that is needed to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and live our lives in accordance with His will.

[Guest Biblicist]

The other thread about an against advice marriage to a non-believer and recent thread about apostasy created some thought for me and brought to recall other situations in ministry that I have had.

Example 1: A lady who was raised in a Christian family, professed Christ, frequented the altar under conviction, attended Christian counseling often, shed remorseful tears, testified and confessed sins before the congregation, and worshipped with ethusaism. Today she is married to a Mormon, has been baptized as a Mormon, and has led her three children to be baptized into that religion. Is this a true Biblical case of apostasy or confusion? If apostasy, is repentance and restoration possible for her?

Sounds like she is taking "submission" a little to far, it certainly isn't Biblical Submission she would be practicing.

Example 2: A man raised a Mormon, comes out of the church and becomes a Christian, eventually is ordained a Pentecostal Holiness Minister and is active in the prison ministry, last Fall he resigns his church and returns to the Mormon faith. Is this a true Biblical case of apostasy or confusion? If apostasy, is repentance and restoration possible for him?

It is possible that his conversion was not sincere. That it was all outward and no heart conversion occured. Sad to say but possibly true.

The verse everyone was choking on says...

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4-6NKJV

Gonna have to get back to you on this part....

[Richard_yaash]

To no one in particular,

What if: We are the ones in apostasy? I am not saying that we are, the question rhetorical in nature.

Having worked with 'cults': I have seen more cult leaders with the ability to sway their 'victims' due to our own 'lacks' within the faith. It is our flaws weaknesses and inaccuracies that allow or give cult leaders their 'strength or ability' so to speak. Now, I have known some whose strength is directly of the adversary. Those swayed by such, have in part been disillusioned by us. By our 'lacks', inclusive of some doctrine(s).

Having spoken with many who have been swayed and indoctrinated into a cult, I can testify that this is so.

[patricia1]

Richard you pose a excellent question. Not every person in the church.. the christian church know the same eloihym(sp) that i and you know. I left my church but not my Lord Jesus. I only stayed where I was due to the pure word coming from a woderful servant of God.

If i was not strong in the Lord I might have started to go to the mormons...Lol. (only Joking) We are considered apostate by many other doctrinal texts, morminism for one. Johovah witnesses and many others. The one familiar theme with most of them is they have no belief in the trinity or cross.

This to me is what makes a doctrine a cult. All seducing as well as occultic except on different Levels.

Ther is nothing new about the new age! Nothing new under the sun.

I was in a few of these churches who classified themselves as Christians. The Headship being in error will bring error to the rest of the body.

Only one pastor took the time out to hear the correction and then listened to his tapes message to call me with the disbelief that He indeed was preaching a falsehood. He did something about it.

Yet i myself need accountability to one who can be objective in relative to what I am saying.

Many fall into a lie and enjoy the lie or never had the word water their minds and remove the lie.

Being sincerely wrong is dangerous but being wrong for your own benefit to lead others astay is worse...If any causes one to go astray it is better for them to have a milstone around their neck...

Is the christian truly being their brothers keeper? Whether pastor or layman? In love I would say not too often. For legalistic reasons or ones own benefit...unfortunately too often.

That is why I am here on Worthy Boards . There is a Tremendous amt of wisdom, Love, knowledge and some really great corrections done in a Godly way for a Godly purpose.

[Richard_yaash]

Not every person in the church.. the christian church know the same elohim [elohiym / eloheem] that i and you know.

I understand your statement Patricia, but I have come to a 'softer' stance upon it. Perhaps I am wrong in that 'softer' stance, some will no doubt say that I am. However, I think that it is not so much that we do not know the same Elohim, it is that we have [sometimes vastly] different understandings of Him.

If we look to the Samaritan woman, they had greatly different understandings of YHVH eloheynu to the point in which they were greatly despised and not to be associated with. They had different methods/places of worship, yet our beloved Messiah responded to this woman:

John 4:21 Jesus declared,