Bush VETOS Ant i-Torture Bill ! ! !

[JustinM]

Even under humanitarian law, the terrorists fail to live up to basic, moral values of human life and dignity.

No doubt about that. Therefore we can treat them without any consideration of moral values, human life or dignity.

Yes sir! Proud to be an American!

For the life of me I don't understand why so many don't understand this; that when we sink to their level we become no better than them. My grandpa used to say "when you lie down with pigs, you're going to smell like one." To paraphrase that; you're not going to maintain the moral highground by getting down to the enemy's level. We don't have to become inhuman mutants in order to dispatch them.

Even with the waterboarding, our moral high ground still towers over theirs. We haven't stooped to stoning people in the streets, maiming, torturing our enemies, or all the other horrible, evil, nightmarish, unthinkable atrocities they commit on us and their own people.

We have them beat by a long shot and they will never stand on equal moral ground with us. So the slippery slope argument is illegitimate IMHO.

[Guest LadyC]

for the life of ME, i don't understand why so many don't understand this.... we aren't sinking to their level. we aren't slitting their throats and distributing the video to news stations. THAT is their level.

furthermore, i don't understand why this gets overlooked either. waterboarding is far more humane by our social standards than what God commanded His people to subject their enemies (and His) to... yeah sure, that was thousands of years ago. but ya know what? GOD has not changed.

not mad at ya glory, i hope i didn't sound like i was... i'm just getting rather passionate about the subject.

[JustinM]

[quote name='glory2000' post='1133426' date='Mar 10 2008, 02:03 PM You don't think it "causes the kind mental anguish that is defined."? How in heck do you know? I don't want my country to become no better than China, Egypt, Jordan and the like. I think we can hold ourselves above such things and still get the intelligence we need. This isn't the seventh century, after all.

[MorningGlory]

Even with the waterboarding, our moral high ground still towers over theirs. We haven't stooped to stoning people in the streets, maiming, torturing our enemies, or all the other horrible, evil, nightmarish, unthinkable atrocities they commit on us and their own people.

We have them beat by a long shot and they will never stand on equal moral ground with us. So the slippery slope argument is illegitimate IMHO.

No doubt about that....and we need to keep it that way. The Lord doesn't tell us to lower ourselves but to lift each other up.

[forrestkc]

Well, if it is used on terrorists and will save us from future attacks, I'm all for it. BTW, waterboarding isn't torture.

Ok lets strap you to a board, hang you upside down, and pour water down through your nose into your lungs and then we will see whether you agree with the Geneva Convention and any decent and conscionable individual on the face of the planet that water-boarding is indeed torture.

Who would Jesus torture?

Did you know we actually executed Japanese soldiers following World War II for war crimes because they water-boarded American POWs.

[MorningGlory]

Don't roll your eyes at me glory, I could make the same point as you. Unless you've been subjected to waterboarding, you can't give the opinion that it is torture and be credible.

I couldn't care less about the terrorists mental anguish. I anguish over the safety of my family and country as a soldier. I do not empathize with their "mental agony." Of which you have no credibility, whatsoever of claiming they have experienced.

Big difference, JM; I don't proclaim what is or isn't torture because I've never been subjected to it; and neither have you. Oh, and just to be accurate I did NOT claim they suffered mental anguish; I said that you didn't know if they did. I think you're a little confused.

[forrestkc]

for the life of ME, i don't understand why so many don't understand this.... we aren't sinking to their level. we aren't slitting their throats and distributing the video to news stations. THAT is their level.

furthermore, i don't understand why this gets overlooked either. waterboarding is far more humane by our social standards than what God commanded His people to subject their enemies (and His) to... yeah sure, that was thousands of years ago. but ya know what? GOD has not changed.

Ok, next time we occupy a nation, we are to slaughter every man, woman, and male child. Rip the wombs open of pregnant women, and instruct our soldiers to take and rape every virgin girl as spoils of war. After all, since thats all in the Old Testament, we should go ahead and do it.

[forrestkc]

I am not going to argue this any further because if you are for torturing people, then your wrong, period. Furthermore, I hope it feels good arguing in favor of a tactic used during the Inquisition and by the Khmer Rouge.

[Guest LadyC]

Ok, next time we occupy a nation, we are to slaughter every man, woman, and male child. Rip the wombs open of pregnant women, and instruct our soldiers to take and rape every virgin girl as spoils of war. After all, since thats all in the Old Testament, we should go ahead and do it.

forrest, i rarely click the "view ignored post" under your name, but i am glad i did. you just made my point. instead of whining about how torturous waterboarding is perceived to be, we should be happy that our government isn't utilizing the methods that God prescribed...

there are some here who are being self-righteous, proclaiming how unChristlike we are for not condemning our government for waterboarding (which there is no evidence to support that it is even being used anymore anyway.) those people would do well to remember that Jesus IS God, and God never changes... and God didn't waste time with something like waterboarding... that was too mild of a weapon in His repertoire.

[JustinM]

Yeah, the nonstop bombardments of selective moral outrage is quite confusing at times.

You believe waterboarding is torture, I don't. Leave it at that.

I believe terrorists are unlawful combatants and should be charged with war crimes, you don't. Leave it at that.