Bush VETOS Ant i-Torture Bill ! ! !

[Guest LadyC]

bib, as many heated discussions as we've had at worthy on the merits of waterboarding, i have to ask you.... is your question rhetorical? or have you just avoided those discussions like a plague? (i wouldn't blame you!)

waterboarding is basically dunking a person under water, instilling a paranoia of drowning into the person until they decide to talk. if this was actual torture, there wouldn't be so many reporters lining up to submit to the technique while being videotaped so that they can get ratings on their evening broadcast.

I thought waterboarding was covering a persons face with a towel and then pouring water onthe towel thus giving them the feeling of being under water and the sensation of not being able to breath.

Dunking someone underwater could accidently drown someone very easily.

yeah, you're probably right... i never watched any of those ratings-grabbing reports!

[kat8585]

-

. . .either way, it is cruel. They are human beings created in the image of God.

If it were one of our sons or daughters , then I'm certain people would look at it differently.

I don't know - however, isn't torturing prisoners of war a violation of the Geneva Convention ????

-

Well, their goal is to kill your sons and daughters--and you.

[Guest LadyC]

as to it being cruel.... i'm gonna sound very childish as i say "oh whaaaaaaaaa" LOL. sorry, but waterboarding isn't nearly as cruel to the individual or their family as what they do to us... you know, mass murder via jetliner, or slicing their head right off their shoulders with a scathe or whatever the heck it is called.

nope, doesn't bother me a bit. like i said, reporters are lining up volunteering to undergo waterboarding for nothing more than RATINGS. ok, maybe the reporters aren't lining up voluntarily, but they could always tell their boss to jump off a cliff.

other methods that have come under social scrutiny include loud noise, sleep deprivation, or a diet of bread and water. like that's TORTURE? who cares! ask any woman with a brand new baby, they survive it!

[chimoku]

KAT

Well, their goal is to kill your sons and daughters--and you.

Whose goal?

Those guys who've been sitting in Quatanamo for 5 or more years?

How many of those guys have inside knowledge of stuff anyway !

It would be just as ludicrous to justify torturing a US serviceman taken prisoner thinking he has inside CIA information.

Besides nowhere in the Bible do I see that one is to return evil for evil.

Its curious.

-

[MorningGlory]

I understand that the President doesn't make or write laws but when they have the final say in whether it becomes law it gives them a lot of responsibility. I think Bush has done right by the people by preventing so many "comprehensive" bills from becomming law once they get passed the respective branches. Just look how many different ways and how many times they tried to sneak/push amnesty through. If it weren't for Bush many of these would have made it through. The same thing goes with this piece of trash legislation they're trying to push through. Bills like these only serve to tie the hands of our intelligence agencies when their performance is already suffering to the extent that their effictiveness has become questionable. As long as the techniques being used do not cause physical pain I do not believe they need to be restricted or outlawed. Our enemies will not give us the same luxury or treatment and so it gives THEM the advantage. No doubt the people that signed this bill are also the ones that wish to ban the sales despite constitutional protection.

Sales of what?

Far be it from me to differ but....I have to differ with the above statement (in bold.) Mr. Bush tried to RAM the comprehensive immigration bill through Congress last year. If it had been left up to him twelve million illegals would've been rewarded for breaking the laws of this country by being given the privilege of applying for citizenship. And it IS a privilege, conferred by the people of the U.S., not a right. See below:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/immigr...2007-06-28.html

[kat8585]

Whose goal?

Well, for one, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, who was waterboarded.

[chimoku]

-

KAT, I get your point.

I simply dont agree with it.

If the top investigative teams/ units/ military - whatever- - in the US has have to resort to waterboarding to get highly sensitive information, then it is a poor commnentary on their professional competence . . . .

It s a cheap and cruel way to justify security concerns . . . particulalry for a civilized Nation such as the US, which has been the peon of Civil and Human Rights throughout the world.

-

[kat8585]

-

KAT, I get your point.

I simply dont agree with it.

If the top investigative teams/ units/ military - whatever- - in the US has have to resort to waterboarding to get highly sensitive information, then it is a poor commnentary on their professional competence . . . .

It s a cheap and cruel way to justify security concerns . . . particulalry for a civilized Nation such as the US, which has been the peon of Civil and Human Rights throughout the world.

-

What would you like them to do, offer a cup of tea?

[chimoku]

-

KAT

What would you like them to do, offer a cup of tea?

Now you're being silly -

Professional interrogaters have many approaches and resources at their disposal

Besides, information about highly sensitive operations are not limited to one person who is incarcerated !

- And the US has enornmous electronic and other surveillances active 24 /7.

There are so many more effective and powerful resources at their behest besides torturing human beings - who have feelings and hopes and loved ones - who need to know Jesus . . . its not the way to fight a war.

.

Edited March 9, 2008 by chimoku

[O'Dannyboy]

It's not that they have to use waterboarding or would chose to employ it in every situation but they should not rule it out as a last resort. We might as well try and tickle our enemies to death or play them rap music for all the methods they wish to eliminate in the name of human rights. The democratic leaders sit backpreaching to Bush about moral authority and they are the ones who advocate abortions and homosexuality. They really do have it all backwards.