American Idol

[Guest LadyC]

john tesh and connie selecca. they both made that commitment, and their marriage is apparently very strong and healthy.

ok, so according to your words here.... he voiced the opinion that kissing leads to sexual impurity. AND??? you disagree with that? it may not lead to impurity 100% of the time, but his opinion is incredibly valid, and biblical. it leads to temptation and it takes a lot of strength for most people to resist taking it too far.

and so he voiced his opinion that premarital kissing causes guys to be dishonest with their future wives. so what? did he give a context as to how it wouldl cause a guy to be dishonest with his future wife? i'd much rather find out what he meant by that than to condemn him for voicing his opinion. i'm sure it CAN, depending on one's definition of dishonesty, or depending on how far they went beyond the kissing once the smooching started. in any case, you haven't provided a single example of him casting judgements on anyone else. you've only given examples of him stating his personal opinions and convictions.

oh, and he would have had his fifteen minutes of fame with or without the kissing controversy. the very fact that he got on the show as a contestant afforded him that much. most contestants who get eliminated go on and get recording contracts anyway, simply because of the exposure they got on the show.

[mrs]

His desire to make money is not the issue. He may be (or not, based on his current release) a talented singer who can make it. My issue is with his using a gimmick and propping it up as some kind of biblical standard that we should all aspire to. His gimmick of NO KISSING is extra-biblical and not founded on ANY biblical standard. There is NOTHING wrong with kissing.

Now, if this young man wishes to come out and say that he doesn't trust himself and cannot handle physical contact with a person of the opposite gender and therefore abstains for personal reasons...thats different. But for his website to imply he might not have made the show because of his "morals"...well thats just plain dumb and arrogant.

You are soooo angry and soooo defensive over this it's almost like you are scared he is taking away your "freedom" to kiss. Is it possible you are just a wee bit jealous?

For the record, as a young Christian female I am very much impressed when a man expresses such goals or desires as he did.

If a guy is dating and keeps himself from kissing and/or pushing his gf then she is safe to relax and enjoy being the object of Godly love instead of barely restrained lust. She will know that he respects and loves her for herself; and that his love will be protecting and not demanding.

Kissing can easily lead to further things, and there have been many who have made a Biblical case that it is not spiritually beneficial to engage in - that it is just a milder form of "playing with fire".

Instead of getting so worked up and angry you should stop and consider the benefits of what he is promoting.

[nebula]

His entire schtick is based on the "kissing' topic. Thats why I call it a gimmick. If it weren't for that ONE thing about him...nobody would have ANY interest in him and he is using that to propel his career forward.

Again, can you actually prove that he is using this to propel his career forward? What if this was a burden on his heart to reach the youth of this nation with this message? What if it was the Lord who opened the door for him? He could have left the audition and never been heard of again, you know.

The Lord loves to use the foolish to confound the wise. He can use the imperfectly talented to confound the perfectly talented too, you know. (And the way the Christian music industry is, they can use a lot of confounding!)

[nebula]

He has also said that he thinks guys that kiss before marriage are being dishonest with their wives. I happen to think he's wrong about that and that he has NO biblical basis for those opinions.

By the way, here's something to consider:

If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife.

Think about that.

[Guest HIS girl]

If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife.

Think about that.

That's a good one Neb, food for thought

You don't have to be a Christian to work out kissing is very intimate. Why people think kissing is as casual as shaking hands, I'll never know.

[Trusting Jesus]

Twenty-year-old Texan Bruce Dickson didn

[Axxman]

I am getting ALOT of different comments here...I will try to answer all of your comments to me.

LadyC...

I wholeheartedly disagree that his opinion is biblical...but it is valid for people who cannot control themselves. If he cannot control himself sexually then he should probably not hold hands either. And if that is his choice...kudos to him. I don't think I've misrepresented his stance. He believes that everyone should do it the way he is...and if they are not then they are corrupting themselves and their future spose. Considering the fact that the bible doesn't tell him that...its a judgement against anyone who decides to do it differently. IMO.

About Tesh/Sellecca...they have both been married and divorced. She has a child with another man. I think the notion that they saved themselves, or wanted to be pure for each other...is kinda silly. Now, I'm not sayin' God can't bless a second marriage, cuz I know he can...but using them as an example doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Exactly how many wives can you save yourself for?

smiles...

Trust me...I'm not mad or angry about this. The guy can do as he pleases. Now try not to take this the wrong way...but I think you have a messed up view of relationships. Maybe you've been a bad one, or two. The idea that a guy is not treating you right, or that you are the object of "barely restrained lust" just because there is a sign of affection...well thats whack. You use words like "push" and "demanding." I can assure you that I kissed my wife before marriage...and it was entirely mutual! I can also tell you that i was a virgin when I married too. There was no pushing or demanding. Any desire to go further was put in check with self-control. Yep, you guessed it...good 'ol self-control. Now...if I thought for a minute that kissing my wife would have led to pre-maritial sex...that it would have diminshed my self-control somehow (which is possible)...I would have done the same thing that the American Idol guy did. What I wouldn't have done is gone and told everyone else that they are doing it wrong and that I am somehow better to my future wife than they are. That would be arrogant. Just because one guy is weak...doesn't make them all weak.

Lastly...you being a young Christian female have every right to be impressed with ANY guy who is seeking after God, and who sets high goals for themselves. I am certain that this guy will make some girl very happy someday.

nebula...

You said a few things...lol. Can I prove he is using this as a gimmick? No. But you keep acting like having a gimmick is a bad thing. Lots of people...especially musicians...need gimmicks. Have you heard his song? Its not good. Now I know thats only my opinion...but its a second rate song, thats sounds like it was done in a second rate studio. However, in spite of this, the guy is getting his song heard because of the gimmick. The guy is getting to sing his song with some pretty big shows. Plus, he's been able to turn it into a regular spot with the "Silver Ring Thing" guys as well. It worked! I don't hold nothing against the guy for that. I'd do it in a second. Ah heck...I have done it. I turned my gimmick into a pretty successful CCM gig when I was a kid. I've worked with some of the biggest names in Christian music all because I had a gimmick...trust me...I needed a gimmick! I have no problem with him riding the "No Kissing" idea all the way to the bank.

Next...this guy is not foolish, and he's not confounding the wise. He just doesn't wanna kiss before marriage. Big deal. The issue is that he acts like he's doing it the right way...and everyone else is doing it wrong. He did an interview on a Fox channel and he and his dad both said that. They think thats the moral standard that young men should have...and if they don't then they are cheating on their future relationships. Thats garbage, and I take issue with that because it is entirely extra-biblical. Thats my ONLY issue with the guy. If he wants to do this thing for whatever reason...kool beans...he just needs to realize that its something that he decided to do that has NO BEARING on the standards of other people.

You said..."If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife." That would be all well and good...if kissing was bad. Its not. In fact...what you just said is exactly the type of extra-biblical innuendo that causes confusion. Its sounds good...but it is rooted in nothing. You are even willing to assume that EVERY girl is married...even if she's not! Where does that come from? Thats not biblical. Jacob kissed Rachel before she even knew his name...seven years before they were married...guess he's lucky he eventually married her, second. Obviously, I'm using some tongue-in-cheek sarcasm...but I'm just trying to make a point. We all have to live our lives the way God would want us to...we just shouldn't make up rules for everybody else outside of God's word.

Trusting Jesus...

Having morals is great, and I can certainly understand why you would want your daughter to meet a christian man with standards. The problem is where do you draw the line. If there is no line then we must suppose that a man who wants your daughter covered from head to toe, wearing no make-up, and showing no skin is the "dream guy" for a parent like you. I mean, geez, muslim standards must sound like heaven to all you guys. The problem is, when you start going outside the bible to make up rules...where does it end? He's not being ridiculed for having a moral standard.

You are right though... There are plenty of examples of people who have bad "gimmicks" and if you have to have something to make you stand out in the crowd...this guy has a good thing going.

[Trusting Jesus]

I think this is a long way from the Muslim way of wrapping up their women. I don't know this young man, where his faith is, but respect is something that it seems that this young man has. As far as "going outside the Bible to make up rules" where does the Bible tell us to date and court the way it is commonly done? How many Christians have compromised themselves when dating - going "too far"? I don't see anything wrong with kissing - innocent kissing - prior to marriage, but I do respect this young man and his ideals.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[nebula]

nebula...

You said a few things...lol. Can I prove he is using this as a gimmick? No. But you keep acting like having a gimmick is a bad thing.

I don't recall having said anything about a gimmick being good or bad. However, your words have presented his stand as being a mere gimmick rather than an issue that is genuine to his heart. If anyone has presented the idea of a gimmick being bad, it has been your presentation.

My argument, though, is not about the morality of a gimmick. My argument is over whether or not this young man's stance is nothing more than a gimmick. I can see how it may be being used as a gimmick; however, I question the claim you seem to be presenting that he planned this all out - using his stand as nothing more than a means to stardom. This is what I and the others are objecting to.

Have you heard his song? Its not good.

OK, I can see how someone like you who has been a professional musician would place his highest value on what he considers quality music. But there are those of us who are not so square with our musical tastes. Some of us appreciate the message of a song and the heart of the singer over the quality of the music - especially we who are not musically inclined.

I have no problem with him riding the "No Kissing" idea all the way to the bank.

Again, you are judging his intention and his heart with, as you admitted, no evidence - other than your own bias.

Next...this guy is not foolish, and he's not confounding the wise.

You mis-heard what I wrote. I was using a Biblical principle to state:

He can use the imperfectly talented to confound the perfectly talented too, you know.

They think thats the moral standard that young men should have...and if they don't then they are cheating on their future relationships. Thats garbage, and I take issue with that because it is entirely extra-biblical. Thats my ONLY issue with the guy. If he wants to do this thing for whatever reason...kool beans...he just needs to realize that its something that he decided to do that has NO BEARING on the standards of other people.

So, the reason you are judging him is because you believe he is judging you - is that your beef?

You said..."If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife." That would be all well and good...if kissing was bad. Its not.

I didn't say "kissing is bad." My goodness, you are jumping down my throat about adding words that aren't there, yet this is what you have been doing to me in your entire response! I never said a gimmick is bad. I never said kissing is bad. I never said he was foolish. Oy!

In fact...what you just said is exactly the type of extra-biblical innuendo that causes confusion. Its sounds good...but it is rooted in nothing. You are even willing to assume that EVERY girl is married...even if she's not!

Open your ears! One day this girl will most likely be married. She is not a wife yet, but she will be.

Think of it this way, imagine meeting a man who your mother dated before she met your father. Imagine him talking about what it was like to kiss your mother. Would you be OK with that?

Jacob kissed Rachel before she even knew his name...seven years before they were married...guess he's lucky he eventually married her, second.

And then afterwards it said Jacob kissed Laban. Do you suppose Jacob kissed Laban on the mouth?

When you read Biblical passages, you need to read them in terms of the cultural context of the time. Have you noticed how people of some other countries great each other with kisses? (Yes, it is on the cheek, but if you don't specify it is on the cheek, how do you know what type of kiss it was without having seen it?)

We all have to live our lives the way God would want us to...we just shouldn't make up rules for everybody else outside of God's word.

Like I said, desperate times require desperate measures.

If it was on your heart to combat the rampant sexual immorality that our nations' youth are engaged in (and taught to engage in), how would you combat it?

For reference, I personally know a couple who pledged sexual purity but had no qualms nor guards with kissing. One night of being alone kissing each other, arousing their passions, and they fell into temptation, resulting in the girl becoming pregnant.

Now, how would you guard your daughter against something like this happening to her?

[Guest LadyC]

LadyC...

I wholeheartedly disagree that his opinion is biblical...but it is valid for people who cannot control themselves. If he cannot control himself sexually then he should probably not hold hands either. And if that is his choice...kudos to him. I don't think I've misrepresented his stance. He believes that everyone should do it the way he is...and if they are not then they are corrupting themselves and their future spose. Considering the fact that the bible doesn't tell him that...its a judgement against anyone who decides to do it differently. IMO.

he did not preach a sermon telling anyone else to believe as he did. he did not point any fingers and say "if you kiss a girl, you're corrupting yourself". HE voiced HIS opinion. period. oh, and given the rampant sexual immorality in our country, i would venture to say there are very, very few people who can control themselves after they have begun swapping spit.

About Tesh/Sellecca...they have both been married and divorced. She has a child with another man. I think the notion that they saved themselves, or wanted to be pure for each other...is kinda silly. Now, I'm not sayin' God can't bless a second marriage, cuz I know he can...but using them as an example doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Exactly how many wives can you save yourself for?

their past is irrelevant. after they had committed themselves to the Lord, they vowed to stay pure for their future mate. i can only imagine how incredibly difficult that was... for two people who KNEW what sex was, LIKED it, and yet remain chaste during a lengthy engagement... wow. they chose even a more difficult path than bruce dickson, who's never yet known the joy of a kiss, or of wandering hands, or of sexual intimacy has chosen.

i'm just dumbfounded that you can criticize any of them for doing what they feel led by God to do. and i'm not talking about their vow of purity, because i realize that is not what you're complaining about. but all three of them chose to make their vows public, and you're putting all three of them down for it... the couple because they weren't virgins at the time they made their commitment to keep themselves pure until their marriage, and the boy because he voiced their opinions.

what a shame that you don't recognize how GOD has been pleased by all three of them giving a public testimony to His glory.