What About Belief?

[ALTACALL]

I'm not sure why you are in such disagreement with the instruction of faith/belief/obedience being components of salvation?

What is it that bothers you so much about it? It seems pretty clear to me, that one cannot "enter in" with "unbelief". What is there to question? THAT IS the concept of faith; to believe unto obeying, lest you don't really believe, and thus, don't obey/disobedience. Where's the issue?

In His Love,

Suzanne

The belief that we are asked to chase after in Hebrews is something we work towards. Has nothing to do with salvation.

You see, you believe you know who youre biological parents are. Through faith you know that this is true so you call them mom and dad. However, through faith you are following the rules and guidelines that are set to you by them in hopes that you will become

a successful mature adult n their eyes. But you believing in what your parents teach you has NOTHING to do with you believing who

youre biological parents are.

so belief and faith can be related and unrelated depending on the subject. I just showed how they can be unrelated.

Hebrews 3 has nothing to do with faith and belief in Jesus Christ. Hebrews 3 and 4 show how we reach spiritual maturity. We try to reach this point.

If you get it then great but if you dont then that's because youre convinced on your own interpretation.

I'll put this out here for anyone who sees what i am saying.

all one has to do is read Hebrews 3 and 4 and see how Paul says. That "rest" is acheived here in our lifetime and not after in death.

This "rest" is not heaven nor anything given to us after death.

You believe today and get paid today NOT when you die.

Okay, i have heard this railing going on to no end. Here is what was meant as to entering his rest. it is an abode, a place to live, look it up in strongs concordance. the context was that the jews of btween certain ages would not go in canaan because that generation did not believe god would give them a victory over the enemy. they had no faith in god so they got no reward of a promised land. That was the intent of not entering into god's rest that was prepared for the jews. It was a home of their own in a physical place. The hebrew writer used this as an illustration for christians to relate to for their promise of a heavenly promise and home. It truly can be argued even more as to what rest really means.Peace could be a good interpretation but only if it is put into context of what the writer is trying to say.

[ALTACALL]

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

[ALTACALL]

I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

The key to true faith is "obedience" to the Word.

Works of faith and physical works go hand in hand.

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them,

[ALTACALL]

I REFER TO ABRAHAM'S WORK WAS HIS FAITH IN GOD BY OBEDIENCE. LET'S NOT CONFUSE WORKS OF FAITH WITH PHYSICAL WORKS OF MAN.

The key to true faith is "obedience" to the Word.

Works of faith and physical works go hand in hand.

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them,

[ALTACALL]

Smalcald wrote:

But we already have direct passages about the role of works and salvation, we don't need to infer.

Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions

[OneLight]

Jesus spoke these words to all who will follow Him.

John 14:12-13

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

These words are spoken to all, and it is my hope that you will reconsider your statement:

"To think works goes hand and hand with your faith in Christ is to add to Christ."

I will agree that nobody can be saved by works, for salvation is a gift from God. Yet, after we do accept to follow Him, we are expected to mature in Him. This maturity brings responsibility, which requires us to be obedient to His will, in turn requiring us to do His works here. We are all called to a ministry and every ministry requires works. They can not be separated. Whether or not these works will be honored, we will know when they are tested by fire. To do nothing is totally wrong and we may find ourselves both leaving our first love and/or being lukewarm, both which we are told to be watchful of.

In His Love,

Alan

[ALTACALL]

exrockstar wrote:

uhmmm...i'll read it like it is. you do know that there are religions that use our exact same bible but discredit the deity of Christ.

So in youre interpretation they are all going to heaven because after all...according to you...they follow words and that's the key.

Do you realize the reason that denying the deity of Christ is so dangerous? Because if you deny that Jesus is the son of God, then you will treat his words with no more importance than any other prophet, or even as the ravings of a madman. You

[tsth]

Jesus spoke these words to all who will follow Him.

John 14:12-13

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

These words are spoken to all, and it is my hope that you will reconsider your statement:

"To think works goes hand and hand with your faith in Christ is to add to Christ."

I will agree that nobody can be saved by works, for salvation is a gift from God. Yet, after we do accept to follow Him, we are expected to mature in Him. This maturity brings responsibility, which requires us to be obedient to His will, in turn requiring us to do His works here. We are all called to a ministry and every ministry requires works. They can not be separated. Whether or not these works will be honored, we will know when they are tested by fire. To do nothing is totally wrong and we may find ourselves both leaving our first love and/or being lukewarm, both which we are told to be watchful of.

In His Love,

Alan

Absolutely, and I would just add that there is no belief if there is no response to what you hear from the LORD. To hear and not respond to what you hear/read in His Word, is to say you do not believe It. Just as those who we are warned about in Hebrews and 1 Cor. 10.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[mead]

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them,

[Guest man]

Wrong. I too use to think this way. What james is saying is what kind of faith is this if you treat your brother this way. To think works goes hand and hand with your faith in Christ is to add to Christ. It does seem that works is getting more print than Jesus. In my humble opinion, the word works and Jesus don't belong on the same line, paragraph or page.

What do you mean wrong?

Read this......pay attention.

Matthew 25

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand,