Salavation "Apart" from Rome?

[Tyler]

Pope Boniface VIII (1302 A.D.)

So, when the Greeks and others say that they were not committed to the care of Peter and his successors, they must confess that they are not of Christ

[WayneB]

Yes.

Only Jesus Christ Saves!

Bless you,

Wayne

[Leonard]

Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

As I pointed out in another thread, many Popes have said many things WHICH HAVE NEVER BEEN MADE PART OF CANON LAW, and are therefore not regarded as binding on the Roman church.

Simply to cite that 'Pope Booger-flicker the umpteenth said such and such,' does NOT enlighten us as to OFFICIAL Roman doctrine. The Roman church believes the Pope is infallable ONLY when he makes a pronouncement EX CATHEDRA (literally 'from the chair', referring to the Bishop's throne--and also the root word from which we get 'cathedral'--from which only the most solemn proclamations are appropriately made.

IN ALL THE HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CHURCH THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN FOUR (4) EX CATHEDRA STATEMENTS!

If anyone would like to discuss ACTUAL errors of the Roman church, I'd be happy to oblige, but this thread is NOT discussing official Roman doctrine; merely stupid things Popes and other Catholics have said....

With a blessing,

Leonard a sinner

[Tyler]

Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

As I pointed out in another thread, many Popes have said many things WHICH HAVE NEVER BEEN MADE PART OF CANON LAW, and are therefore not regarded as binding on the Roman church.

Simply to cite that 'Pope Booger-flicker the umpteenth said such and such,' does NOT enlighten us as to OFFICIAL Roman doctrine. The Roman church believes the Pope is infallable ONLY when he makes a pronouncement EX CATHEDRA (literally 'from the chair', referring to the Bishop's throne--and also the root word from which we get 'cathedral'--from which only the most solemn proclamations are appropriately made.

IN ALL THE HISTORY OF THE ROMAN CHURCH THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN FOUR (4) EX CATHEDRA STATEMENTS!

If anyone would like to discuss ACTUAL errors of the Roman church, I'd be happy to oblige, but this thread is NOT discussing official Roman doctrine; merely stupid things Popes and other Catholics have said....

With a blessing,

Leonard a sinner

Are you mistaken Maybe Leonard?

From the Catholic Bible(Mine)NAB

Bull, Papal

The MOST Formal OFFICIAL DOCUMENT issued by the Pope. It is written on strong parchment and bears the signatures of the Pope and certain members of the Papal chancery. It receives it's name from the lead or Gold seal, called the bulla, which bears a representative of SS. Peter and Paul on one side and the reigning Pope on the other. This seal is attached to the document by a silken cord if the bull is one of grace, and by a hempen cord if it is a bull of justice.

This is about as Official as it gets!?

Canon IV. If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain from God, through faith alone, the grace of justification, though all [the sacraments] are not indeed necessary for each individual, let him be anathema.

This means all People who believe we are saved by Faith in Jesus Christ, without works, are damned to hell by the RCC!

Leonard, the Pope is "NOT Infallible" regarding Church doctrine?? I think the RCC teaches otherwise??

Only Christ Saves

[Ovedya]

It appears to me that the argument, "Well we can discount that statement because it was not made ex cathedra" is used almost every time such quoatations are used.

But it is apparent (To me, anyway) that this argument is moot, given the fact that the CC throughout its history has always taught that there is no salvation outside its walls, outside its doctrines, teachings,etc., etc. Furthermore, since these teachings are likewise contained in the many council documents, it is pretty much clear (To me anyway) that the CC hold itself entirely infallible. Therefore, to say that this particular teaching concerning salvation could be fallible because it was not spoken ex cathedra is really a lot like giving the formula: 1) I am always right. 2) If you have any doubts as to whether or not I am right, see rule #1.

[Matthitjah]

God Bless, God Bless,

Saints the Lord led me to two questions today. They applied to me yet they fit here as well.

They were this;

What did Abraham have?

I answered.

Then this came;

What did Moses have?

Peace,

Dave

[Tyler]

Doesn't that leave us with a Paradox?? If we believe we are saved by faith alone, then we are "accursed"(anathema), by the RCC?

If we believe that we are saved thru works, that we must adhere to ALL of the RCC's proclamations, then aren't we denying the power of the saving grace of Christ's redemption at cavalry?

It all boils down to being saved by the blood of Christ, or trying to earn your way to heaven, therefore bypassing the Cross??

At least that's the way it looks to me!

Only Christ Saves

[Guest Marc]

Doesn't that leave us with a Paradox?? If we believe we are saved by faith alone, then we are "accursed"(anathema), by the RCC?

My friend do you really care?

Do you know how many cults there is that teach something similar, people are condemned unless they do what xyz organisations says?

The only consideration when debating doctrine is this: Are we talking about a Christian doctrine?

Does the doctrine teach that there is only one way to the Father that is through the Son? One only way to salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ? One only mediator, Jesus? Only one word of God the Holy Bible? That we are all equal in front of God? That it is anathema to CHANGE the Bible to our convenience?

It is painstakingly clear that the Roman Catholic and all the other Catholic dogmas are NOT a Christian doctrine since they teach the opposite to all I outlined before. In fact to every single one of the above.

It is like debating Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism, what's the point? Catholicism is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated in history of human kind; At least Islam is clearly anti Christian. Catholicism is a pretend Christian doctrine that has the objective to keep people away from the primary purpose of Christ, salvation, and does so using a series of tricks and twists. Many good folks in such apostata church will be saved by NOT following the Catholic doctrine and good for them. Unfortunately, they find it difficult to accept that a hierarchy that bows to the occult orchestrates the whole shebang, and so attempt to find intellectual explanations for what is antiChristian doctrine.

Really sad.

[angels4u]

If a person is truly saved, the Holy Spirit, who is living within one who is "born again," will draw us to the truth as we find it the Bible alone.

If there is anything what contradicts the written word of God on any subject, especially salvation, it should immediately be disregarded.

Angels

[refugepsa91]

Simply to cite that 'Pope Booger-flicker the umpteenth said such and such,' does NOT enlighten us as to OFFICIAL Roman doctrine.

:oww: I'm sorry but that statement about had me rolling on the floor with laughter.....I'm gonna giggle over that for a long time K I'm done I just had to tell Leonard thank you for the giggle!

Love and Blessings,

Angel