Musterion

[Metanoia]

The name that I use, metanoia, simply means repent. I will post my various thoughts on different issues, but I thought I would introduce myself.

The word musterion (Mystery) is used only a few times in scripture, but I believe that with patience and a careful understanding of the roots (shoreshim in Hebrew) of the ancient languages God has revealed all His mysteries within His Word.

As I look at these boards, I see very educated and bright people with many different opinions so I am glad to be part of such a group to discuss the musterions of Scripture.

As Isaiah says, "line upon line, and precept upon precept" is how all doctrine should be formed. Every line of scripture, must line up with every other line of scripture. If for some reason a scripture doesn't fit, then you need to rebuild your entire line of logic. Because God didn't leave any loose ends. He made it all fit perfectly and in perfect harmony.

With that being said, the best place to begin to understand God is in the very names of God.

In Hebrew, the very first use time the word God is used is the word, Elohim.

Elohim is probably one of the most interesting and complex words in all of scripture for it begins to show just how complex and deep God is.

Hebrew is a very precise and complex language, just as Greek is. God made no mistakes when He chose Hebrew as the language keep in tact what He truly desired.

Whenever you see an, im, at the end of a Hebrew word it indicates a plurality. Even in the beginning of Scripture we begin to see the plurality of God.

Genesis 1:1

[Guest yod]

Amen!

As you mention, hebrew is an exact language. No doubt is left with what is said...only what the ultimate application should be.

For instance the word (or in this case the name) "Yeshua"

It means "salvation" but in the hebrew there is no mistaking that this is in the PRESENT TENSE.

Not "received salvation" or "will be saved" but rather "salvation NOW"

Today is always a good day for salvation....for Yeshua.

[Metanoia]

Great points Yod! Since you opened the Yeshua mystery, we might as well dive in a little deeper.

What did Jesus mean when He told the Jews, Abraham saw my day and rejoiced!

John 8:56  Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Or the time Jesus said,

John 12:41  These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

For the WORD has always been with the Father, He is the Alpha and the Omega!

Revelation 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

So what did Jesus, Yeshua, mean when He said, Abraham rejoiced to see my day? Or when Isaiah saw Jesus sitting in glory?

The Musterion of Yeshua is this, He is God in the flesh and He is in the Word in mysterious ways. I'll answer my own questions if none want to join in the discussion, but I am curious if there are others who see the same insights!

[Guest yod]

So what did Jesus, Yeshua, mean when He said, Abraham rejoiced to see my day? Or when Isaiah saw Jesus sitting in glory?

You are probably headed a different direction but I think that Yeshua was pointing out that He was/is the Eternal One who was, and is, and is yet to come.

Isaiah 43:13

"Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?"

[Metanoia]

Excellent points Yod. But I was referring to different times in the Hebrew scriptures where Abraham and Isaiah both saw Yeshua.

[nebula]

Speculating:

When the Lord appeared to Abraham with two angels - before He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah - some believe that it was Jesus.

My other thought is that Scriptures do not record everytime the Lord spoke with people, only the times pertinent to recorded history. So, the Lord could have revealed many things to Abraham that we don't know about.

When the Lord spoke to Abraham the promise of his decendants, maybe Abraham understood "the code" that was in there? (Re: the world will be blessed through his seed.)Or when he sacrificed Isaac and was given the ram in Isaac's place, maybe Abraham was granted the revelation to understand what that meant?

These are just my guesses.

As per Isaiah - well, he was a prophet. He spoke many revelations of the Messiah (prophecies) that were fulfilled in Jesus (Yeshua).

Also, the Lord appeared to him in the Temple (ch. 6, I believe). So it is no suprise that he is recorded to have seen the Lord's glory!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

Well, let me throw a fly in the ointment. Perhaps even reveal another "musterion".

As Isaiah says, "line upon line, and precept upon precept" is how all doctrine should be formed. Every line of scripture, must line up with every other line of scripture. If for some reason a scripture doesn't fit, then you need to rebuild your entire line of logic. Because God didn't leave any loose ends. He made it all fit perfectly and in perfect harmony.

Isaiah 28:10-13 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I find it a profound "mystery" WHY so many Christians refer to the Isaiah verse as if it were speaking of a "good" thing. The more appropriate verses to use for the point trying to be made are:

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Judaic Israel are a bunch of stiff-necked people. THEY have the word, THEY have the prophets, THEY have the ancestory, THEY have the prophecies and this is what Jesus said about them:

Matthew 23:23-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Romans 9:31-32 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

So the Isaiah verses quoted above were telling the Jews that their insistance on "the LAW", in lieu of practicing "righteousness by faith" were going to be their downfall.

Well! One more "mystery" solved.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[other one]

Good points Dad Earnie.

Sam

[Leonard]

Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Actually, "Line upon line, and precept upon precept" is one place where my beloved King James version falls down on the job. The Hebrew is simply "sav l'sav, sav l'sav, kav l'kav, kav l'kav" which HAS NO MEANING IN HEBREW. It is like baby jibberish, or a language which cannot be understood by the hearers.

This may add a dimension overlooked previously to a discussion of the passage.

With a blessing,

Leonard, a sinner