Is Jesus "God Almighty in the flesh" ?

[BobTriez]

This discussion started in the "Bible Versions" thread and since it is starting to change the topic, I decided to start a new thread on it. The discussion was about who is Jesus ? God, man, both ? I believe that Jesus claimed to be God many times, and to believe anything less is a sin. This statement was made in the other thread -

I would have to have a very detailed explanation of what

you mean by God Almighty in the flesh to agree with that phraise. I hear

it a lot but have not heard a good explanation of all that it takes in.

He made it clear that the Father was in Him and He in the Father, but was

very clear to point out He was not the Father. So God Almighty may have

been in His Flesh, but He was not God Almighty. God Almighty is the

Father.

Let's look at what both the prophet Isaiah said about this and what Jesus Himself said.....

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the

government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called

Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace.

And what did Isaiah say Jesus' name would be ?

Isaiah 7:14

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

And what does Immanuel mean ? -

Matthew 1:22-23

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

And who created the Earth ?

Genesis 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now let's see what the New Testament says -

Colossians 1:13-18

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

And in the book of John -

John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

In the next example, Phillip asked Jesus to show the Father as proof - pay close attention to what Jesus said and why He said it was not necessary to show him the Father -

John 14:8-11

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast

thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the

Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father

that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else

believe me for the very works' sake.

And here's another claim by Jesus that angered the Jews -

John 10:30-33

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my

Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;

but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself

God.

Jesus clearly identified who He was ( many times ). In John 10 you see this claim infuriated the Jews so much that they tried to stone Him; and it was this claim that ultimately led to His crucifixion.

When Moses asked God who he should say sent him, God's answer was this -

Exodus 3:14

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he

said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me

unto you.

This establishes that God revealed Himself as "I AM". It's very important to follow up on this in the New Testament when Jesus was being questioned about who He was and who He claimed to be......what did He say ?

John 8:58-59

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham

was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and

went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed

by.

Again, this claim to be God Himself made them so mad that they tried to stone him.

The night before Jesus died, he predicted his betrayal and death, and said,

Edited May 7, 2004 by BobTriez

[Guest sybil]

Lovely Bob, Thank You. Heartfelt appreciation. Just wait til He returns! What a sight He will be.

Edited May 7, 2004 by sybil

[godrulz]

Bob: Do you believe in the triune understanding of God or are you 'oneness'/Jesus only?

The important truth is the Deity of Christ and is essential for salvation.

[BobTriez]

Bob: Do you believe in the triune understanding of God or are you 'oneness'/Jesus only?

The important truth is the Deity of Christ and is essential for salvation.

I believe in one God; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Great Three In One....known as the Trinity. The Bible is very clear that besides Him, there are no other gods.

One God, yet three persons.....can I explain it ? Not in this life because it is beyond human understanding. But I accept it by faith because the Bible says it's true.

I can sum it up best by saying I wholeheartedly affirm the truths in the Apostle's Creed -

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Creator of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven

and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,

whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and life everlasting.

Amen.

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In His Service,

Bob

Edited May 7, 2004 by BobTriez

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Bob,

I believe that Jesus claimed to be God many times, and to believe anything less is a sin.

Good post. But did I miss the testimony that Peter and Thomas gave regarding who Jesus was?

Matthew 16:15-17 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 20:27-28 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Just my 2c.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[eric]

Bob

Thank you, very well strung together. Nice one.

eric.

[RGR]

Bob: Do you believe in the triune understanding of God or are you 'oneness'/Jesus only?

The important truth is the Deity of Christ and is essential for salvation.

I believe in one God; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Great Three In One....known as the Trinity. The Bible is very clear that besides Him, there are no other gods.

One God, yet three persons.....can I explain it ? Not in this life because it is beyond human understanding. But I accept it by faith because the Bible says it's true.

I can sum it up best by saying I wholeheartedly affirm the truths in the Apostle's Creed -

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Creator of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven

and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,

whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and life everlasting.

Amen.

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In His Service,

Bob

The best way I know to explain this is in light of my name-Ronald Reagan. My father and my son are also named Ronald Reagan (with differing middle names though). We are Ronald Reagan, but we are still three separate individuals. That's the best way I can grasp it!

[BobTriez]

Greetings Bob,

I believe that Jesus claimed to be God many times, and to believe anything less is a sin.

Good post. But did I miss the testimony that Peter and Thomas gave regarding who Jesus was?

Matthew 16:15-17 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 20:27-28 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Just my 2c.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hello 'Dad Ernie',

Very good examples...I was indeed aware of them, but as I said, there are so many examples of Jesus being God in the flesh, I simply couldn't include every one of them. I do have a comment on the verse where Thomas, after seeing the scars on Jesus replies -

John 20:28

" 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God "

If Jesus was not God, or if he didn't claim to be God this would have been an open opportunity for Jesus to correct Thomas and say " hold on a sec Tom, don't call me God - for the Scriptures say there is only one God "

Isaiah 43:10-11

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Deuteronomy 6:4

4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

But Jesus didn't stop Thomas, did he.....The Old Testament says that there is only one God and that one God is saviour. He allowed Thomas to say what he said because it was the truth and Jesus lived it, died it, resurrected it and proved it. He is indeed the one God of the old testament, the Ancient of Days, the Great I AM.

Paul wrote in Ephesians 4:4-6 " 4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The examples go on and on throughout both the Old and New Testament. Jesus, Emmanuel - God with us is indeed the Almighty God!

Thanks for the input & reminding me about those examples.....

In His eternal grip,

Bob

[other one]

Bob, in your last post before you moved part of my post here you said you'd like to read more of my thoughts. I posted the following on a different thread then realized it would be rather tacky of me not to continue with your request. So, I am going to copy it here. I am sorry for the duplication, but it seemed right for me to do.

Exod 24 10Then Moses went up with Aaron,  Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel,  and  they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet (15) there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.  Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and  they saw God, and they ate and drank.

John 6:45      "It is written  in the prophets, ' AND THEY SHALL ALL BE  TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

46    Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.

Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him.

So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament.

Looking further:

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God  He was in the beginning with God.  All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life and the life was the light of men.

John 1:9    There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.  He was in the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him.

It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning.

It seems to me that the people of the old testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh.

Further:

Philippians 2:5+  Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with god a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.  And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.  Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the old testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth.

Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body.

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?  The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me;

John 17:20  Jesus prayed " I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their work: that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me"

It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father and the Father know us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit. I fear discussing the workings of The Spirit for none of this in more than my personal beliefs, and to get something wrong concerning the Spirit is a grave mistake.

I will just say that I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Father directly interfacing with us within our spirit, and leave it at that.

1 Corinthians 15:20  But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.  For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  For He must reign until He has put al His enemies under His feet.  The last enemy that will be abolished is death.  For He has put al things in subjecton under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him.  And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all.

Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjectd all things to Him........ The Father.

I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father.

I believe that the Holy Spirit is the actual Spirit of the Father and is so Special it is not safe to discuss it's properties.

These things are my personal beliefs over a vey long time of reading and listening to the Bible and much pondering and Prayer. The scriptures I quote here are just a few that express what I learned from many.

If this helps to understand the relationship of the three good, if not pay no attention to me at all. It is as I say just my belief,

[Ovedya]

Bob: Do you believe in the triune understanding of God or are you 'oneness'/Jesus only?

The important truth is the Deity of Christ and is essential for salvation.

Hmmm....Interesting.

I hear the statement, "Believing in the doctrine concerning the Trinity is essential to salvation" all the time.

I would ask, and maybe challenge, how is the understanding of the Triunity of God essential for salvation? This idea (theology, really) has been floating around Christendom for centuries, and was actually originally introducted by the RC in response to the Arian heresy. But in my search of the Scriptures, I have not found one teaching that the understanding of the nature of God is essential to one's salvation.