Why does God allow so much pain?

[HAZARD]

God calls many people and many resist this calling. In my humble opinion those who resist and deny God have no idea who He is for many and various reasons. God wants that all men be saved but as I said, many willingly resist Him. Jesus said these words regarding mens calling.

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 5:32), "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44). Continue to resist this calling and your on your own. If God does not exist, if Jesus did not die and was raised again, those who do not believe have nothing to worry about and nothing to look forward to.

If God does exist and His Word is true, those who deny God can look forward to an eternal life in the Lake of Fire, which is the eternal Hell and perdition of wicked men, those who deny the Father and Christ, demons, fallen angels, and all rebellious creatures of all ages who have ever rebelled against God, and who have refused to repent when they could have. It is called "The Gehenna of Fire" and is always translated Hell (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). This prison is also called "the second death, which is the lake of fire" (Rev. 2:11; 20:6, 14). This final Hell was prepared for the devil and all his angels (Matt. 25:41-46), and for all other rebells, and it is ETERNAL in duration (Rev. 14:9-14; 20:10-15; Isa. 66:22-24; Matt. 25:46). There is no record in Scripture of anyone being the lake of fire at present. Scripture does show that the beast and the false prophet will be the first to be cast into it. This will happen before the Millennium (Rev. 19:20). They will still be there 1,000 years later when the devil and all other rebells will be cast into it (Rev. 20:10-15).

Scripture shows that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell as far as remorse and torment of the conscience is concerned (Matt. 10:15; 11:22; 12:41; 23:14; Mark 6:11; 12:40; Luke 10:14; 11:31, 32; 20:47). These degrees of punishment will be because of the kind of sins comitted by one that were not comitted by another. No man will be punished or could have remorse over something he did not do. They will all regret rebelling against God and man and failing to believe in Jesus, and repenting of sin.

All the pet theories of men, the traditions of churches, and the ideas and teachings of false teachers and preachers can never change the Word of God.

Those who do believe, that God exists and His Word is true, have everything to look forward to.

I believe!

Haz.

[Rick-Parker]

As do I.

[Grungekid]

My point was that God allows our pain to teach us about His faithfulness and mercy. He will not give us more than we can bare.

Stacey, what about the thousands who commit suicide every year? Would you not say they have been handed more than they can bare? We have a fellow here in Ontario named Paul Bernardo who is now behind bars, but when he was loose he was responsible for untold numbers of sexual attacks and murders including that of teenage girls lured by his wife for use as sex slaves. Over a period of weeks they were abused, tortured and murdered (cut into pieces I believe), all filmed on video for his later viewing pleasure. You don't think those girls were tortured beyond endurance? You don't think that the millions of Jews who died at the hands of their Nazi captors were handed more than they could bare? On one of the bunks in the Auschwitz concentration camp are carved the words, 'If there is a God he needs to beg me to forgive him.' Where does the love of God go?

Your statements make no sense to me. God is doing us a favour by allowing monsters to abuse and torture innocent victims? The more a person is tortured, the more pain they experience, somehow teaches them more about God's mercy? I don't follow. It is because of acts like these that the problem of evil is for many people an obstacle to belief in God.

Ahem. It's an obstacle because it's an emotional difficulty, not a logical one.

As for those people you speak of: I won't lie, that's awful and it's not easy for me to explain it away. But God gave them their opportunities in life, and they made their choices. We all have our time. Each of them had what taste of life they would, and they met the challenges they had to face. Some of them may have been greeting death with open arms when their time came; in that sense, God gave them what they needed to get through to that last moment, and was still merciful. Remember, Hell is supposed to be a lot worse than anything that can be experienced on Earth. Death is not the most terrible experience out there.

Never forget the people who went through Auschwitz and came out still firmly convinced of God's benevolence. He saves as many as He takes away, otherwise there would be none of us left to argue.

You also mentioned suicide, and that is a sticky issue. Maybe it will get more attention later. But really, it's not God giving people too much; it's people deciding they don't want to bother.

[Jonny_NZ]

Regarding Auschwitz and Dachau, a very valuable read is Victor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" - along with a number of other Frankl books too.

[Rick-Parker]

Throughout the Bible, God made many promises to His people. They included protection and prosperity. But they had conditions. We are to obey His laws, commands and ordinances. If we (humans) don't do that then we can expect God to turn away from us. That is what we have done. We ignore, deny and attack God. We (humans) live in debauchery and sin. God has looked away from us (humans). We as individuals may have salvation, but because we are still part of the human race, we are subject to the same penalty's as anyone else, saved or unsaved. We (humans) choose to take God out of the world. Whatever happens to us is what we have allowed to happen. Without God (the one you don't believe in) we are subject to the wrath of Satan, the ebb and flow of naturally occurring catastrophe. At least as Christians we have the hope of something better after we die. Without Christ, there is only the hope that death results in the end of one's existence. You live and die by your choices. I pray that you come to your senses before it is too late.

[Rick-Parker]

Psalm 50

1 The Mighty One, God, Yahweh, speaks, And calls the earth from sunrise to sunset.

2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines forth.

3 Our God comes, and does not keep silence. A fire devours before him. It is very tempestuous around him.

4 He calls to the heavens above, To the earth, that he may judge his people:

5 "Gather my saints together to me, Those who have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."

6 The heavens shall declare his righteousness, For God himself is judge. Selah.

7 "Hear, my people, and I will speak; Israel, and I will testify against you. I am God, your God.

8 I don't rebuke you for your sacrifices. Your burnt offerings are continually before me.

9 I have no need for a bull from your stall, Nor male goats from your pens.

10 For every animal of the forest is mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

11 I know all the birds of the mountains. The wild animals of the field are mine.

12 If I were hungry, I would not tell you, For the world is mine, and all that is in it.

13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls, Or drink the blood of goats?

14 Offer to God the sacrifice of thanksgiving. Pay your vows to the Most High.

15 Call on me in the day of trouble. I will deliver you, and you will honor me."

16 But to the wicked God says, "What right do you have to declare my statutes, That you have taken my covenant on your lips,

17 Seeing you hate instruction, And throw my words behind you?

18 When you saw a thief, you consented with him, And have participated with adulterers.

19 "You give your mouth to evil. Your tongue harnesses deceit.

20 You sit and speak against your brother. You slander your own mother's son.

21 You have done these things, and I kept silence. You thought that the "I AM" was just like you. I will rebuke you, and accuse you in front of your eyes.

22 "Now consider this, you who forget God, Lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23 Whoever offers the sacrifice of thanksgiving glorifies me, And prepares his way so that I will show God's salvation to him." (WEB)

emphases mine.

[MorningGlory]

Without God (the one you don't believe in) we are subject to the wrath of Satan, the ebb and flow of naturally occurring catastrophe. At least as Christians we have the hope of something better after we die. Without Christ, there is only the hope that death results in the end of one's existence. You live and die by your choices. I pray that you come to your senses before it is too late.

I believe that storms, earthquakes, tidal waves, and fire are all natural occurrences that we can expect. I don't believe that Satan is behind any of these things. Death, disease, hardship, affect all, Christians and non-Christians alike, just as you would expect if there was no God. Theists make excuses for why God does not intervene and have been making such excuses for thousands of years. I would like to ask you: 'If there was no God, how would you live your life differently?'

If there was no God, he wouldn't have a life to live; differently or otherwise.

[Rick-Parker]

To add to what MorningGlory said - I would lead the exact same life I do now. You see, I believe that God exists through faith. Because of that belief, comes belief in the reliability of the Scriptures. Because of that reliability, I practice what the Word tells me is pleasing to God. If there is no God, then I have lost nothing because I would just die after living a fruitful, hopeful and satisfying life. But if you are wrong about your belief that there is no God (which you are by the way) you will end up suffering the consequences of your unbelief. By far, athiests have far more at risk than I have. I pray for your salvation before it is too late. Be blessed, my friend.

edit: As for Satan - you don't believe in God so you obviously wouldn't belive in him.

[Guest]

I would like to ask you: 'If there was no God, how would you live your life differently?

No God No Life (Bet You Knew That)

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 1:26-31

If There Was No God

Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 40:6-8

Than Why All The Pointless Questions

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

1 Timothy 1:5-6

And Could This Be Just A Little Puttering Around

And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.

Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.

Luke 24:11-12

The Edges Of God's Amazing Grace

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:4-5

And The Wonder Of The Lord

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Hebrews 12:2-4

And The Love Of God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:16-18

[Smalcald]

But we believe that the only reason that the world exists at all and more importantly that life exists and is held together is Christ, the odds are very very small that life would ever be able to exist, yet it does and the only reason it continues, is the mercy of Christ.

It is a very hard question to ask as being a Christian I believe the very act of life, of beauty, confirms God, as Merton said all natural things have an invisible fecundity of life, they radiate God.

So it is hard to answer your question. I honestly would say that I would be a worse person, not because of some sort of increased level of sin, but because I would have no hope.