What are the requirements/steps for salvation

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jun 1 2008, 07:06 PM)

QUOTE

Even though baptism itself doesn't save us it still has a huge part in God's plan of salvation. It was mentioned already in Romans what happens in baptism. Many have said that baptism takes away from the work Jesus did on the cross, but Romans tells us that in baptism we are buried and resurrected with Jesus into his death and those who are dead are freed from their sins.

the Baptism spoken of in romans, particularly Romans 6 is not a reference to water immersion. The word baptism simply means "immerse" it does not mean "immersion in water." if I dunk a cookie in milk that is a "baptism" according to the usuage of the greek word. If you take a bath in a tub of water, that is a "baptism" as well.

Perhaps you could give more here.

Give more what????

QUOTE

We are immersed (baptized) into Christ by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. That is all it means in Romans 6. we are taken out of Adam and immersed into Christ. It is also known a "positional justification."

We are immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit in baptism at the moment of salvation.

The immersion into Christ is the baptism being spoken of in Romans 6.

It is clear from this and other verses. It is also the theological position of the entire Church (universal) until Huldrych Zwingli introduced a different meaning of baptism around Calvin's time.

You holding up the early church as having authority in this matter?

As EricH pointed out, the fact that they were closer with respect to a span of time in relation to the Apostles, does not in any way mean that their teachings were more pure. That is simply fallacious logic. As for the remark about Zwingili, I can imagine the same remarks being made by Catholics to those who held to Luther's teachings. They could have easily dismissed Luther's teachings on the grounds that they were more recent and thus less accurate that what was previously held.

You are holding up as an "authority," a religious leadership that was above all else, viruently anti-Semitic. They worshipped and prayed to dead saints, venerated supposed bones and relics that allegedly belonged to either the apostles or prominent biblical characters, forced the illiterate masses to pay "indulgences" to buy a loved one's way out of purgatory, venerated Mary, taught that the earth was both flat AND the center of the solar of the solar system, in later years, attempted to kill or imiprison ANY ONE who attempted to make the Bible available to the masses in their own language....

I could go on and on but this is the organization you hold up as being more doctrinally pure was a wicked, bigoted and cruel organization and hardly anything I would turn to for understanding of the Bible. The fact that you hold these people up to support your position only demonstrates why your position should be categorically rejected by ALL Christians.

[Joshua-777]

I voted by faith alone, Salvation is a free gift, that comes from having faith in Jesus Christ.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hello Deut 31:12

There were many things that you said on your post on 1 June 08, the following quote being just a small part.

Even though baptism itself doesn't save us it still has a huge part in God's plan of salvation. It was mentioned already in Romans what happens in baptism. Many have said that baptism takes away from the work Jesus did on the cross, but Romans tells us that in baptism we are buried and resurrected with Jesus into his death and those who are dead are freed from their sins.

I thought that you may like the following reference(s). I hope that you will not take this in any wrong way. I hope that this only adds to your knowledge of scriptures.

Just for point of reference regarding baptism. Baptism does save us (I Pet 3:20-21). Baptism was also ordered of Peter in Acts 10:48 to the Gentiles, after they received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

True; baptism does not take away from the work of the cross. Baptism is given to us to be buried with Christ into death, and resurrected (by the Holy Ghost) into newness of life. To be free from sin.

Jeremiah Joel

[Rick-Parker]

Baptism does save us

Sorry, but only Christ's death on the cross saves us. Baptism is an act. Salvation is a gift. Nothing one can do will ever save. That is why Christ had to die for us.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hello Brandon

[Rick-Parker]

I don't take it personal. And everything I have in response I have already stated throughout this discussion.

Be blessed.

Rick

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hi Bradon

I don't take it personal. And everything I have in response I have already stated throughout this discussion.

Be blessed.

Rick

I had asked you in some other post where you have answered the question regarding I Peter 3:20-21; and may have missed it somewhere. Please direct me to your post regarding you answering I Peter 3:20-21.

You have said plainly that: "baptism does not save us". Yet in I Pet 3:20-21 it says that "baptism does save us". I hope that you could direct me too your responding to this question in your posts. If that would be dificult, could you humor me (so to speak) and tell me how you have addressed

I Peter 3:20-21.

Thank you

Jeremiah

Edited June 24, 2008 by Jeremiah Joel

[Rick-Parker]

In context:

1Peter 3:17-22 For it is better, if the will of God should so will, that you suffer for doing well than for doing evil. Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison, who before were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you - not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him. (WEB)

Noah was saved by God, who used water to destroy all creatures. You go through a door, does the door therefore save you? You are choosing to interpret the scriptural meaning of the verses above to mean that baptism has the power (and/or) is required for salvation. If that is how the Holy Spirit is leading you, than praise God. The Holy Spirit leads me to believe that this very same scripture teaches that baptism does not save but is an act for "proof" to God of my faith in Jesus Christ; that Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to save, as God's power was sufficient to save Noah through the flood.

Questions for you -

1. So, are there exceptions to the need to be baptized in order to be saved?

2. Would that make for more than one way to be saved?

3. What about those who choose salvation yet delay baptism? Are they not saved during the interim between their confession of faith and their obedience in following Christ in baptism?

4. What about those who, in their dying declaration, confess faith in the saving power of Christ and then die?

[EricH]

Faith

[eric]

I don't recall having a vote in this subject, but I would like 2 cents worth. So firstly IMO salvation is not a gift. Salvation is deliverace, by redemtion, from sin and the cosequences of sin. It's a state of where your heart is, in relationship to the righteousness, expected of you, by God, by repenting of your inborn carnal and sinful life, and living a the life that God has purposed for you. Now in order to accmplish that condition, it takes what EricH said......faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The work on the cross was a perfect example of a perfect sacrifice.

If we are to follow Christ into eternity, we should be prepared to acknowledge our sinful state and repent of our carnal lifestyle and make a few sacrifices of our own, and we can't do that without conviction of the Holy Spirit, who will lead us into all truth. You don't get a stamp on the back of you hand or a certificate. You get a heart transplant......in a manner of speaking. In other words you make a heart-felt committment to Jesus to turn your life around and keep His commands. It takes Faith, and we can find out all about faith in the book of Hebrews.......This my own understanding of salvation after tewnty odd years of reading the word.