anointed cherub???

[psalmone]

Greetings again. I don't wish to dwell on things excessively but there is an interesting article that addresses the fall of satan with a different angle to what I have heard preached. I understand that there is still debate and speculation on the subject, but the article was quite substantial in my opinion.

It states that satan wasn't felled between Genisis 1 and 2 because he was in the garden probably still as the anointed cherub, and that he was possibly commissioned to minister to Adam and Eve until he maybe envied the attention they were getting and proceeded in tempting them. This was possibly the point where iniquity was found in Him and the judgement which followed could have been that fall with all that was related to it.

The original article might be found here

Edited July 12, 2008 by psalmone

[psalmone]

Greetings again. I don't wish to dwell on things excessively but there is an interesting article that addresses the fall of satan with a different angle to what I have heard preached. I understand that there is still debate and speculation on the subject, but the article was quite substantial in my opinion.

It states that satan wasn't felled between Genisis 1 and 2 because he was in the garden probably still as the anointed cherub, and that he was possibly commissioned to minister to Adam and Eve until he maybe envied the attention they were getting and proceeded in tempting them. This was possibly the point where iniquity was found in Him and the judgement which followed could have been that fall with all that was related to it.

The original article might be found here

here

[Guest Honolulu-Dad]

Aloha psalmone,

I read the article to which you left the link.

I found it to be interesting, however, I do not agree with the thought that the angel Lucifer was here on earth with Adam and Eve, in his "right" standing with God.

Lucifer (the anointed cherub) is first refered to as a serpent in the Bible. I studied out the word serpent in the Hebrew, and according to the texts I studied, the root of the word used for serpent literally translated to a "whisperer of magic spells".

Now, I am hoping there will not be a repeat of what took place on another thread here.

The article you have mentioned talked about Lucifer being a ministering angel and having been in "the garden of God". Personally, I think that is true. However, I think it was at a different period in time.

I think Lucifer was, in fact, a King, here on earth. One of his prideful boasts was that he would exalt his "throne" above the stars of God (Isaiah 14:13). That says to me, first; that he had a throne to exalt, and second - he was a king. Only kings (or queens) have thrones.

I personally, after having studied this topic, have no Biblical reason to believe that Lucifer had such authority here on earth after the creation of man.

I think it's a stretch to say that Lucifer had that authority, but, God decided to create man and give the authority to him. Thus, stripping Lucifer of his position, in essence, without cause.

The writer of the article said they think Lucifer was a minister to Adam and Eve who became jealous of the relationship between God and man. That does not make sense to me because I do not know why God would need a minister to talk to Adam when He (God) himself came in the cool of the evening and walked with Adam and Eve. God simply did not need a middle man (so to speak).

There are other reasons for my belief, but, I have attempted to stick very strictly to the topic of this thread.

I would like to make it very clear. It is not my purpose to persuade anyone to my way of thinking. I am simply sharing my thoughts on the topic.

Good topic psalmone!!

[Larry 2]

Greetings again. I don't wish to dwell on things excessively but there is an interesting article that addresses the fall of satan with a different angle to what I have heard preached. I understand that there is still debate and speculation on the subject, but the article was quite substantial in my opinion.

It states that satan wasn't felled between Genisis 1 and 2 because he was in the garden probably still as the anointed cherub, and that he was possibly commissioned to minister to Adam and Eve until he maybe envied the attention they were getting and proceeded in tempting them. This was possibly the point where iniquity was found in Him and the judgement which followed could have been that fall with all that was related to it.

The original article might be found here

Response by larry2 - Dear psalmone, I submit a portion of an pamphlet titled "Cherubim and Seraphim" written by Mary Bodie available free online listed under pamphlets at "Gospel Fellowship and Grace and Glory Bible College." I hope the following portion helps in the blessed name of Jesus - larry2

-------------------------------------

THE COVERING CHERUB

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire" - Ezekiel 28:14.

The above language is addressed apparently to the king of Tyrus; but he is only the figure of Satan, as is plainly evident. Tyrus, or Tyre as it is more often called, was a famous city of Phenicia. It was built by a colony of Zidonians, descendants of Canaan, a son of Ham; hence, is also named "daughter of Zidon" - Isaiah 23:12. It was the great mercantile center of its day. This, too, is but figurative of a greater city that rules over the kingdoms of the world - the church of this world, "Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots," false to her Heavenly calling and false to her Heavenly Lover - Isaiah 23:15; Revelation 17:5.

As was said, the king of this city is none other than that old serpent the devil. But Satan was not created a devil. He was the angel of light, Lucifer, the star of the morning. He was perfect in his ways from the day that he was created, till iniquity was found in him - Ezekiel 28:15. Ezekiel sketches a most comprehensive and remarkable personality in the above chapter. Lucifer was "in Eden the garden of God," of which the earthly Eden was but the type. He was covered with every precious stone - enveloped in light. "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty," was said to him. He was filled with music - a whole pipe organ in himself, as it were. Melody and harmony were the essence of his being - Ezekiel 28:13. But was he satisfied? Alas, no. He aspired to become as God; and so he fell. Iniquity was found in him. He exalted himself; so he must be abased, according to the principle of God's throne. Afterward he injected this same poison into man, thus exalting self. "Ye shall be as gods," was the tempter's bait. Man, innocent and good, fell from his standing and became what he is - vile and sinful.

Was God defeated? No, indeed! He did a new thing. He brought His First-born into the world. A Man, whom Satan cannot move, came on the scene. He proved to be the Master. He conquered in this desert place of ruin, and thus He redeemed man.

Now what is the sequel? Ah! It is so wonderful, so far beyond our greatest thought: Man not only regains his lost estate, though this was good, but more - he gets Lucifer's estate also. The exalted office of "the anointed cherub that covereth," that "walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire," that is the throne that is given to the One that was abased - Christ, and "to them for whom it is prepared" of the Father - Matthew 20:23. They not only get dominion over the earth, the place of the first man whom Satan robbed; but they get the high and lifted up throne of Lucifer in the heavenlies, and all that he possessed as the angel of light. These are the living creatures which John saw "in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne ... full of eyes before and behind," Truly, "Whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted" - Matthew 23:12.

But they that wait

upon the Lord shall

renew their strength;

they shall mount up

with wings as eagles;

they shall run, and not

be weary; and they shall

walk, and not faint.

Isaiah 40:31

[Floatingaxe]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

[Ningning]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

Right!

[Larry 2]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

Response by larry2 - Agreed, but Genesis is God's word too, and Satan is called just that there and I believe it.

In Jesus' name - larry2

[Floatingaxe]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

Response by larry2 - Agreed, but Genesis is God's word too, and Satan is called just that there and I believe it.

In Jesus' name - larry2

"But" what, larry? I don't get it.

[Larry 2]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

Response by larry2 - Agreed, but Genesis is God's word too, and Satan is called just that there and I believe it.

"But" what, larry? I don't get it.

Response by larry2 - Dear Floatingaxe, I'm not sure what you're asking. Using Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." this shows all names of our enemy except Lucifer, and then Strong's Concorcance show Lucifer to be Satan figuratively also.

_________________________________

Lucifer

01966 llyh heylel hay-lale'

from 01984 (in the sense of brightness); TWOT-499a; n m

AV-Lucifer 1; 1

Lucifer="light-bearer"

1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer

1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)

2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon

________________________________________

Satan

07854 Njs satan saw-tawn'

from 07853, Greek 4566 satan; TWOT-2252a; n m

AV-Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1; 27

1) adversary, one who withstands

1a) adversary (in general-personal or national)

2) superhuman adversary

2a) Satan (as noun pr)

_________________________________________

Devil

1228 diabolov diabolos dee-ab'-ol-os

from 1225; TDNT-2:72,150; adj

AV-devil 35, false accuser 2, slanderer 1; 38

1) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely

1a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,

2) metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

Satan the prince of the demons, the author of evil, persecuting good men, estranging mankind from God and enticing them to sin, afflicting them with diseases by means of demons who take possession of their bodies at his bidding.

___________________________________________

[Floatingaxe]

Just one small point:

The fact that Satan is referred to as the Serpent in Genesis really is not significant as the books of the Bible are not arranged chronologically as written. I do believe that Job, where Lucifer is named as Satan is the oldest book in Scripture.

Response by larry2 - Agreed, but Genesis is God's word too, and Satan is called just that there and I believe it.

"But" what, larry? I don't get it.

Response by larry2 - Dear Floatingaxe, I'm not sure what you're asking. Using Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." this shows all names of our enemy except Lucifer, and then Strong's Concorcance show Lucifer to be Satan figuratively also.

_________________________________

Lucifer

01966 llyh heylel hay-lale'

from 01984 (in the sense of brightness); TWOT-499a; n m

AV-Lucifer 1; 1

Lucifer="light-bearer"

1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer

1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)

2) (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon

________________________________________

Satan

07854 Njs satan saw-tawn'

from 07853, Greek 4566 satan; TWOT-2252a; n m

AV-Satan 19, adversary 7, withstand 1; 27

1) adversary, one who withstands

1a) adversary (in general-personal or national)

2) superhuman adversary

2a) Satan (as noun pr)

_________________________________________

Devil

1228 diabolov diabolos dee-ab'-ol-os

from 1225; TDNT-2:72,150; adj

AV-devil 35, false accuser 2, slanderer 1; 38

1) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely

1a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,

2) metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

Satan the prince of the demons, the author of evil, persecuting good men, estranging mankind from God and enticing them to sin, afflicting them with diseases by means of demons who take possession of their bodies at his bidding.

___________________________________________

Not asking about that, but that's ok, thanks, larry.