Biblical tongues

[OnFire4God]

I have read through this whole post as well as other posts on this topic that are now closed. I understand that many people believe different things about this topic (and was actually surprised to see some people arguing about it! We are all one in Christ, no?)

I certainly believe that gifts of tongues are prevelent today. However, it wasn't until about a year ago that I was shown through scripture that tongues are for every believer. Has anyone ever had an experience where they first thought that tongues was not for them, and later received? This is something that I've been struggeling with, I've read all the scripture, all the support. I've even asked for this gift and thought I've received it yet sometimes when I think back I really do think I made up what i spoke that day. This really plays on my mind. I don't want to stifle something that God wants to give to me, but I want to walk in biblical truth. How can I accept a gift if I'm not even sure that its there for the taking? And to be honest...when I hear people speaking in tongues... I ALSO think they're making it up. And that's sad, I don't want to think that, but its almost like I can't help my thoughts sometimes. And to be even more honest, it sort of scares me. I get so mad about this topic that I can't even talk to people about it in person. I'm really struggeling, if anyone has any wisdom, words of comfort, or has ever been in this situation I would love to hear about it.

(note: I DO believe tongues exist, trying to convince me otherwise does no good, and please, no more arguing! Gah!)

did i write this? er, uh, no you did. i could have tho. almost all of it anyway. i'm so there, too. i have no words of wisdom, but hopefully knowing your not alone is a comfort.

That does help, thank you.

[OnFire4God]

I have read through this whole post as well as other posts on this topic that are now closed. I understand that many people believe different things about this topic (and was actually surprised to see some people arguing about it! We are all one in Christ, no?)

I certainly believe that gifts of tongues are prevelent today. However, it wasn't until about a year ago that I was shown through scripture that tongues are for every believer. Has anyone ever had an experience where they first thought that tongues was not for them, and later received? This is something that I've been struggeling with, I've read all the scripture, all the support. I've even asked for this gift and thought I've received it yet sometimes when I think back I really do think I made up what i spoke that day. This really plays on my mind. I don't want to stifle something that God wants to give to me, but I want to walk in biblical truth. How can I accept a gift if I'm not even sure that its there for the taking? And to be honest...when I hear people speaking in tongues... I ALSO think they're making it up. And that's sad, I don't want to think that, but its almost like I can't help my thoughts sometimes. And to be even more honest, it sort of scares me. I get so mad about this topic that I can't even talk to people about it in person. I'm really struggeling, if anyone has any wisdom, words of comfort, or has ever been in this situation I would love to hear about it.

(note: I DO believe tongues exist, trying to convince me otherwise does no good, and please, no more arguing! Gah!)

can you show me in the scripture where it says that the gift of tongues are for every believer?

seems to me this passage says that no Spiritual Gift is for everyone...

I Cor 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

and then the rest of the passage...

28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

which of these passages makes one think that the gift of tongues is for every believer?

Outside the gift of salvation, there is no gift that is given to every believer.

Runninggator-

If you read through this entire thread, as well as others that are posted on this topic, you will see all the scripture that is given for those of us who believe that praying in tongues is for all believers. I didn't post this to debate otherwise, but more so to reach out and hear what anyone has to say about how they received this gift after once believing that they couldn't. Posting a bunch of scripture is sort of redundant to whateverone else has already said. But thank you.

[OnFire4God]

Runninggator-

If you read through this entire thread, as well as others that are posted on this topic, you will see all the scripture that is given for those of us who believe that praying in tongues is for all believers. I didn't post this to debate otherwise, but more so to reach out and hear what anyone has to say about how they received this gift after once believing that they couldn't. Posting a bunch of scripture is sort of redundant to whateverone else has already said. But thank you.

that is why I started a new thread on this topic, 107 post means that a lot has been said and a lot has been lost.

That's a good idea.

[truthbringer]

[1] The Pastor isn't the only one who can do it, Every one who speaks in tongues can speak between themselve and God, If you read my post, you will see that I said that.

I didnt say the Pastor was the only one doing it, I asked why he would do something that is supposed to be between him and God alone in front of a church full of people. Reminds me of what Jesus was talking about in Matt 5

[2] I do cast out devils and heal the sick.

that is nice, do you also drink poision? and mess around with snakes?

[3] You said Paul doesn't think its a good thing to speak in tongues that no one understands, God understands it and He thinks its a good thing.

that is why it would be between you and God, and has no real place in church.

Why did Paul say this...But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue

[4] Paul says, "We speak with tongues of Angels", He didn't say, [iF I SPEAK], He said "Though I speak.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (NIV)

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal (NASB)

If I speak the languages of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (HSCB)

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. (ASV)

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. (ESV)

If I speak with tongues of men and of angels, and I have not charity, I am made as brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling. (WYC)

Even in the KJV if you read the next few verses you know that he is speaking in a rhetorical way, and the meaning is clear, he is not saying he speaks in the language of angels

[5] it is the Holy Spirit speaking, But it is through our vioce, If we aren't speaking in our native language, we must be speaking in tongues.

you are speaking something, that does not make it the Biblical gift of tongues

[1]When someone speaks in tongues "between themseilve and God", It doesn't matter if there is hundreds of people there, It is still his personal relationship with God, Thats why It is between him and God.

[2]To say it has no place in the church is just your own thoughts, [Lets stick with facts please]. When you come together ;EVERYONE HAVE A TONGUE] "FACT"

[3] "Though I speak with tongues of men and angels", If Paul didn't speak in tongues of Angels, whu would he mention it.

You put a lot of your own opinion to scripture.

[4]When the Holy Ghost interceeds, He speaks through our voice in a heavenly language.

Again your own thoughts, You think that you are a leading authority on tongues, And you dont even speak in tongues,

The person with the experience will never believe the man with an arguement.

[truthbringer]

I have read through this whole post as well as other posts on this topic that are now closed. I understand that many people believe different things about this topic (and was actually surprised to see some people arguing about it! We are all one in Christ, no?)

I certainly believe that gifts of tongues are prevelent today. However, it wasn't until about a year ago that I was shown through scripture that tongues are for every believer. Has anyone ever had an experience where they first thought that tongues was not for them, and later received? This is something that I've been struggeling with, I've read all the scripture, all the support. I've even asked for this gift and thought I've received it yet sometimes when I think back I really do think I made up what i spoke that day. This really plays on my mind. I don't want to stifle something that God wants to give to me, but I want to walk in biblical truth. How can I accept a gift if I'm not even sure that its there for the taking? And to be honest...when I hear people speaking in tongues... I ALSO think they're making it up. And that's sad, I don't want to think that, but its almost like I can't help my thoughts sometimes. And to be even more honest, it sort of scares me. I get so mad about this topic that I can't even talk to people about it in person. I'm really struggeling, if anyone has any wisdom, words of comfort, or has ever been in this situation I would love to hear about it.

(note: I DO believe tongues exist, trying to convince me otherwise does no good, and please, no more arguing! Gah!)

can you show me in the scripture where it says that the gift of tongues are for every believer?

seems to me this passage says that no Spiritual Gift is for everyone...

I Cor 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

and then the rest of the passage...

28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

which of these passages makes one think that the gift of tongues is for every believer?

Outside the gift of salvation, there is no gift that is given to every believer.

Runninggator-

If you read through this entire thread, as well as others that are posted on this topic, you will see all the scripture that is given for those of us who believe that praying in tongues is for all believers. I didn't post this to debate otherwise, but more so to reach out and hear what anyone has to say about how they received this gift after once believing that they couldn't. Posting a bunch of scripture is sort of redundant to whateverone else has already said. But thank you.

Onfire4God,Runningator has seen the truth and still argues about it. If you are realy seeking to speak in tongues, let me tell you, You are in for a wonderful and beneficial time.

Tongues are for every Christian who has been baptised in the Holy Ghost. The four accounts in the Bible when perple got filled with the Spirit, they spoke with tongues, [Jesus said the beliver would] so tongues are for you. I dont know if you think you are baptised in the Holy Ghost, [ A person definatley knows when they have been filled with the Spirit].

Because God becomes more real to them, there is a greater love for God, and there is joy.

Please dont deceive your self or you'll never speak in tongues. Many people are waiting for God to baptise them in the Holy Ghost, when I was seeking Him they had waiting meetings, waiting for God to Fill them- and we'd wait & wait, but never got filled, Then I found that the Bible says, He has already been given.

In Acts 1:4--5, Jesus said the Holy Ghost was a promise, and people today are still waiting for Jesus to fulfill that promise, But in Acts 2, The promise was fulfilled when the Holy Ghost came. Then in Acts 2: 38, Peter says, The Holy Ghost is a gift, A gift that has been given, The responsibilty is not with God, it is with us to receive Him by faith. If He was still a promise then the responsibilty would be on Jesus to fulfill it, But thank God Jesus has given the promised Holy Ghost.

As for speaking in tongues, many people are waiting for the Spirit to speak through them, but the Bible says, THEY SPOKE as the Spirit gave them the utterance. You have to make that act of faith, and the moment you do, The Spirit will give you the utterance.

Also many people are waiting for feelings - Waiting to feel the Holy Ghost moving in them before they believe, And the less they feel the more thy strive-and the more they strive the less they feel, And they become discouraged. You dont say to the sinner, Feel saved and you will be saved, You dont say to the sick, Feel healed and you will be healed. NO FEELINGS FOLLOW FAITH.

So dont wait for the Holy Ghost to speak through you, You Speak, Dont wait for feelings, step out in faith.

Edited September 6, 2008 by truthbringer

[Floatingaxe]

I have read through this whole post as well as other posts on this topic that are now closed. I understand that many people believe different things about this topic (and was actually surprised to see some people arguing about it! We are all one in Christ, no?)

I certainly believe that gifts of tongues are prevelent today. However, it wasn't until about a year ago that I was shown through scripture that tongues are for every believer. Has anyone ever had an experience where they first thought that tongues was not for them, and later received? This is something that I've been struggeling with, I've read all the scripture, all the support. I've even asked for this gift and thought I've received it yet sometimes when I think back I really do think I made up what i spoke that day. This really plays on my mind. I don't want to stifle something that God wants to give to me, but I want to walk in biblical truth. How can I accept a gift if I'm not even sure that its there for the taking? And to be honest...when I hear people speaking in tongues... I ALSO think they're making it up. And that's sad, I don't want to think that, but its almost like I can't help my thoughts sometimes. And to be even more honest, it sort of scares me. I get so mad about this topic that I can't even talk to people about it in person. I'm really struggeling, if anyone has any wisdom, words of comfort, or has ever been in this situation I would love to hear about it.

(note: I DO believe tongues exist, trying to convince me otherwise does no good, and please, no more arguing! Gah!)

can you show me in the scripture where it says that the gift of tongues are for every believer?

seems to me this passage says that no Spiritual Gift is for everyone...

I Cor 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

and then the rest of the passage...

28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

which of these passages makes one think that the gift of tongues is for every believer?

Outside the gift of salvation, there is no gift that is given to every believer.

Runninggator-

If you read through this entire thread, as well as others that are posted on this topic, you will see all the scripture that is given for those of us who believe that praying in tongues is for all believers. I didn't post this to debate otherwise, but more so to reach out and hear what anyone has to say about how they received this gift after once believing that they couldn't. Posting a bunch of scripture is sort of redundant to whateverone else has already said. But thank you.

Onfire4God,Runningator has seen the truth and still argues about it. If you are realy seeking to speak in tongues, let me tell you, You are in for a wonderful and beneficial time.

Tongues are for every Christian who has been baptised in the Holy Ghost. The four accounts in the Bible when perple got filled with the Spirit, they spoke with tongues, [Jesus said the beliver would] so tongues are for you. I dont know if you think you are baptised in the Holy Ghost, [ A person definatley knows when they have been filled with the Spirit].

Because God becomes more real to them, there is a greater love for God, and there is joy.

Please dont deceive your self or you'll never speak in tongues. Many people are waiting for God to baptise them in the Holy Ghost, when I was seeking Him they had waiting meetings, waiting for God to Fill them- and we'd wait & wait, but never got filled, Then I found that the Bible says, He has already been given.

In Acts 1:4--5, Jesus said the Holy Ghost was a promise, and people today are still waiting for Jesus to fulfill that promise, But in Acts 2, The promise was fulfilled when the Holy Ghost came. Then in Acts 2: 38, Peter says, The Holy Ghost is a gift, A gift that has been given, The responsibilty is not with God, it is with us to receive Him by faith. If He was still a promise then the responsibilty would be on Jesus to fulfill it, But thank God Jesus has given the promised Holy Ghost.

As for speaking in tongues, many people are waiting for the Spirit to speak through them, but the Bible says, THEY SPOKE as the Spirit gave them the utterance. You have to make that act of faith, and the moment you do, The Spirit will give you the utterance.

Also many people are waiting for feelings - Waiting to feel the Holy Ghost moving in them before they believe, And the less they feel the more thy strive-and the more they strive the less they feel, And they become discouraged. You dont say to the sinner, Feel saved and you will be saved, You dont say to the sick, Feel healed and you will be healed. NO FEELINGS FOLLOW FAITH.

So dont wait for the Holy Ghost to speak through you, You Speak, Dont wait for feelings, step out in faith.

Exactly, truthbringer!

[truthbringer]

[1] The Pastor isn't the only one who can do it, Every one who speaks in tongues can speak between themselve and God, If you read my post, you will see that I said that.

I didnt say the Pastor was the only one doing it, I asked why he would do something that is supposed to be between him and God alone in front of a church full of people. Reminds me of what Jesus was talking about in Matt 5

[2] I do cast out devils and heal the sick.

that is nice, do you also drink poision? and mess around with snakes?

[3] You said Paul doesn't think its a good thing to speak in tongues that no one understands, God understands it and He thinks its a good thing.

that is why it would be between you and God, and has no real place in church.

Why did Paul say this...But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue

[4] Paul says, "We speak with tongues of Angels", He didn't say, [iF I SPEAK], He said "Though I speak.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (NIV)

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal (NASB)

If I speak the languages of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (HSCB)

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. (ASV)

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. (ESV)

If I speak with tongues of men and of angels, and I have not charity, I am made as brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling. (WYC)

Even in the KJV if you read the next few verses you know that he is speaking in a rhetorical way, and the meaning is clear, he is not saying he speaks in the language of angels

[5] it is the Holy Spirit speaking, But it is through our vioce, If we aren't speaking in our native language, we must be speaking in tongues.

you are speaking something, that does not make it the Biblical gift of tongues

[1]When someone speaks in tongues "between themseilve and God", It doesn't matter if there is hundreds of people there, It is still his personal relationship with God, Thats why It is between him and God.

[2]To say it has no place in the church is just your own thoughts, [Lets stick with facts please]. When you come together ;EVERYONE HAVE A TONGUE] "FACT"

[3] "Though I speak with tongues of men and angels", Your Bible may say, "If I speak in tingues of men & Angels"

But the Greek meaning could be translated, "Though, Whoseoever and Everyone".

If Paul didn't speak in tongues of Angels, would he mention it.

You put a lot of your own opinion to scripture.

[4]When the Holy Ghost interceeds, He speaks through our voice in a heavenly language.

Again your own thoughts, You think that you are a leading authority on tongues, And you dont even speak in tongues,

The person with the experience will never believe the man with an arguement.

[truthbringer]

Onfire4God,Runningator has seen the truth and still argues about it. If you are realy seeking to speak in tongues, let me tell you, You are in for a wonderful and beneficial time.

Tongues are for every Christian who has been baptised in the Holy Ghost. The four accounts in the Bible when perple got filled with the Spirit, they spoke with tongues, [Jesus said the beliver would] so tongues are for you. I dont know if you think you are baptised in the Holy Ghost, [ A person definatley knows when they have been filled with the Spirit].

Because God becomes more real to them, there is a greater love for God, and there is joy.

Please dont deceive your self or you'll never speak in tongues. Many people are waiting for God to baptise them in the Holy Ghost, when I was seeking Him they had waiting meetings, waiting for God to Fill them- and we'd wait & wait, but never got filled, Then I found that the Bible says, He has already been given.

In Acts 1:4--5, Jesus said the Holy Ghost was a promise, and people today are still waiting for Jesus to fulfill that promise, But in Acts 2, The promise was fulfilled when the Holy Ghost came. Then in Acts 2: 38, Peter says, The Holy Ghost is a gift, A gift that has been given, The responsibilty is not with God, it is with us to receive Him by faith. If He was still a promise then the responsibilty would be on Jesus to fulfill it, But thank God Jesus has given the promised Holy Ghost.

As for speaking in tongues, many people are waiting for the Spirit to speak through them, but the Bible says, THEY SPOKE as the Spirit gave them the utterance. You have to make that act of faith, and the moment you do, The Spirit will give you the utterance.

Also many people are waiting for feelings - Waiting to feel the Holy Ghost moving in them before they believe, And the less they feel the more thy strive-and the more they strive the less they feel, And they become discouraged. You dont say to the sinner, Feel saved and you will be saved, You dont say to the sick, Feel healed and you will be healed. NO FEELINGS FOLLOW FAITH.

So dont wait for the Holy Ghost to speak through you, You Speak, Dont wait for feelings, step out in faith.

I was wondering when you would get around to this, the whole you are less of a Christian or maybe even not a real Chrstian if you dont speak in tounges. this is always the last resort of those that have the Bible to back them up.

peace to you, this is eneded.

Runningator, I am not saying you have to speak in tongues to be a Christian,

[i was a Chritsian five months before I was baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke with tongues].

A person is a Christian when they get born again of the Spirit of God, But then there is a different experience called the Baptism in the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.

I use the word "Baptism in the Holy Ghost because John the baptist does, Matthew 3: 11. and Jesus does, acts 1: 5.

[HisMindinme]

Here is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:1

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

If Paul speaks of tongues of angels, then your link is not in accordance with scripture. Correct me if I am incorrect, but there is nowhere on earth that speaks in an angelic language.

This needs to be quoted in the wider context. The focus of what Paul is trying to communicate is on LOVE and NOT on tongues. The statement about tongues is a statement of scope and depth; doing something to the uttermost. Look at the larger scope and you'll see this:

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

1Co 13:2 And if I have prophecies, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

1Co 13:3 And if I give out all my goods, and if I deliver my body that I be burned, but I do not have love, I am not profited anything.

1. The implied scope of "tongues of men" is ALL languages - every known language. Paul widens the scope to include the languages of heaven itself (angels). Again, the focus is not on the languages, but on the capacity to do something, anything and lack ANY LOVE while doing it.

2. "... if I have prophecies ..." "... all mysteries ..." "... all knowledge ..." "... all faith ..." -- Again, Paul's point here is to show depth and scope of things that he COULD DO (not that he DOES DO), yet doing WITHOUT LOVE.

3. "... all my goods ..." even to the point (again - scope!) where I offer my own body to be burned! This is about depth and scope to the uttermost of what human beings can do.

The message is: Whatever great thing you can think of as being valuable; if you do it without love, the value is a big fat zero! So, when Paul includes the phrase "of angels" here, he is not suggesting that one of the marks of the gift of "tongues" is that we will speak heavenly languages by the Spirit of God!

Again -- look at the wider context and message Paul was conveying: A more main thought starts back at about verse 3 of chapter 12:

1Co 12:3 Because of this I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus is a curse. And no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:4 And there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit;

1Co 12:5 and there are differences of ministries, yet the same Lord.

1Co 12:6 And there are differences of workings, but the same God is working all things in all.

1Co 12:7 And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

1Co 12:8 For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;

1Co 12:9 and to another, faith by the same Spirit, and to another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit,

1Co 12:10 and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.

1Co 12:11 But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as He wills.

I became a Christian in a church that preached "speaking in unknown tongues" was a "sign" of the indwelling gift of the Spirit. So -- been there, done that. After 25 years, I am NOT inclined to remain in the position of saying, THE KEY sign of having the Spirit of God is speaking in tongues. Actually, such a thing is a complete distraction from the reality of knowing how we're filled with the Spirit of God, and to what purpose we are filled. The true test of knowing if you're filled with the Spirit is when you WALK (live, speak and do) [by|of|from] the Spirit of God! Moreover, we must not only understand what the end result looks like, but the PURPOSE of being filled.

I know plenty of "tongue talkers" (including myself) who "spoke in tongues", but whose lives reflected mostly "works of the flesh" and not "fruits of the Spirit" (Galatians 5 and others).

The article rightly points out verses like 12:11 above, where Paul points out the diversity of the outward manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit. Tongues (languages and interpretations) is in this list of diversified giftings. If Paul was holding that it was THE KEY, he would have left it out of this list in chapter 12 or would have qualified it (i.e. he would have distinctly said something like, "distributing separately as He wills, except for tongues, which is given to all equally and not diversly."

As a matter of fact, Paul expands on the diversity theme by pointing out that our "gifts of the Spirit" are like organs and parts of the body. He names hands and feet, but could have gone on to name legs, arms, heart, stomach and so on, but hands and feet were enough to communicate the point.

Moreover, Paul again returns to the gift list in verses 27-28:

1Co 12:27 And you are Christ's body, and members in part.

1Co 12:28 And God placed some in the assembly: firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then works of power; then gifts of healing, helps, governings, kinds of languages.

Specifically, we are "members in part". In other words, someone gets the be the hand, another a foot, another and arm and so on. Paul then reiterates SOME of the gifts to communicate his point. The last gift on the list is tongues. Again, this is NOT "heavenly languages" (angel-speak), but are languages of men. God gives some people the capacity to learn and speak other languages for the purpose of spreading the gospel to ALL groups of men!

The learning and interpretation of languages is NOT miraculous, but is a gifting of the Spirit nontheless. Look at the list in verse 28. It is an ORDERED list (see the words "firstly" "secondly" "thirdly"), so we know we have an ordered list. If "tongues" are given miraculously, then what of "helps" and "governings?" Are we to say that someone gets hands laid on them, the Spirit of God comes rushing into them and suddenly they know how to help and govern (i.e. run things)? Utter nonsense!

What we do is we get a notion in our head and then want to foist that notion on to anything we read or see that has to do with the notion (thought) in our mind. What is interesting is the MOTIVATION for wanting to do that -- LUSTS! We insist on doing such things because the flesh finds a lust feeding mechanism and does what it ALWAYS does: USES the mind to produce thoughts, which produce the chemistry that the lusts feed upon!

I can tell you this from personal experience. I was an arduous tongue talker, filled with the Spirit, but sinned in the shadows with absolute ignorance and without a whit of self-control! I secretly and sometimes openly ran in the works of the flesh and even my "fruits of the Spirit" were feigned and faked. What is abundantly clear to me is -- I WAS AND AM NOT ALONE IN THIS TYPE OF LIVING! What is more -- If you would have confronted me THEN on the matter, I would have used your confrontation of me as an excuse to "defend" which was just another lust feeding mechanism at work. Any attack on "what I believed" would have been and was used by my lusts as an excuse to gin up all sorts of "defense thoughts" and then to have those thoughts, with the intense emotions, which in turn fed my lusts -- all in the name of Jesus Christ, religion and so on.

I would have raised my voice, become "passionate" about the matter. I would have perhaps thrown down the guantlet of "How dare you challenge me in this! Look here ... scripture scripture scripture scripture ... blah blah blah." There would have been intense defending and emotions on my part. I can remember ridiculing people, yelling and in one instance, almost getting into a fight over "religion" (can you say, "Witness Gone Wild?").

Now -- compare this to the actual Fruits of the Gifts of the Spirit. The TRUE fruits of the Spirit are:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control. Against such things there is not a law.

Gal 5:24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Col 3:12 Therefore, as elect ones of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassions, kindness, humility, meekness, long-suffering,

Col 3:13 bearing with one another and forgiving yourselves, if anyone has a complaint against any; even as Christ forgave you, so also you should forgive.

Col 3:14 And above all these, love, which is the bond of perfectness.

A key argument that was generally given as a "proof" of "unknown tongues" as THE SIGN you'd been "filled with the Spirit" was how those who DID NOT speak with other tongues tended to be less or NOT "on-fire" than those who did speak with tongues.

This is the type of anecdotal evidence that gets preached and set up before people as though we can count on it to the same level as scripture itself! The truth is: it IS anecdotal and is based on emotions, which my experience has been -- there are MANY preachers who are preaching in the flesh to other people operating in the flesh. They use trappings of the Spirit - religiously laced thoughts and resulting words - as a vehicle to provide deeply intense emotions from which the flesh feeds and feeds and feeds. As a matter of fact, the feeding machine is deepened and rutted by such activity. The whole notion of "being on fire" can utterly be divorced from the reality of what it means to walk from the Spirit of God; His Mind in us, being formed and renewed in us.

What I am NOT going to do is to say, "If you speak in an 'unknown' tongue, you are NOT a Christian and are not saved." This is not true. In my own case, there was a core seed of the Spirit of God that was planted in me: an experience of knowing God was real and there, that all my sinning (even as a "Christian") could not erase. God knew. God has timing. The Lord sees our entire life and is not limited in sight like we are. So, if you "speak with other tongues" and babble on in prayer and praise -- well -- then you do and that is that. I am NOT here to judge you, condemn you or any other such thing at all.

However -- that said -- I WILL and DO warn you: Take heed, pay attention, look, see, stop, slow down, calm your mind, get sober (-Vs- drunk on "I am right!" and the emotions of being right and defending) and become aware. Set aside what you "believe" about tongues and put your focus on the whole matter of living. May I suggest a place to start?

The BEST place to start for real and honest self-examination (2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.) is to understand HOW you work, HOW your mind is enslaved to the lusts of your flesh and the REALITY of what God is trying to do in your life. The very least thing God is trying to do in you, through you and with you is having you babbling in tongues in prayer and praise! It is the VERY least thing! FOCUS! LOOK! STOP! GO SLOW!

START WITH an understanding of how the lusts of your flesh USE and ENSLAVE your mind to produce thoughts and emotions. Gain an understanding of how thoughts and emotions instantly produce the chemical responses which feed the very lusts of your flesh. START HERE. IF you do, you'll take light-years steps towards GETTING and UNDERSTANDING the salvation of Jesus Christ in your life.

When you gain an understanding of HOW the lusts of your flesh feed and DO NOT care about the CONTENT of your thinking, you'll gain an understanding of how the lusts of the flesh can use "religious trappings" (thoughts) and how such thoughts can actually and in reality be feeding the lusts of the flesh and are NOT of or by the Spirit of God!

Mat 7:15 But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves.

When I use the word "trappings" it is another word for clothing. So, people can dress up in "sheep's clothing". I am pointing at the same thing Jesus is pointing at: You can and WILL meet people who do all sorts of things, INCLUDING "speaking with tongues" and it is just their lusts using religious "trappings" (sheeps clothing) as a vehicle for producing thoughts, producing chemicals to feed the lusts. Moreover, they then ENTICE YOU to do the VERY SAME THING! And because you are human and already fallen -- your "conversion" is simply a rearrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic. You've changed the clothes, but the wolf within you is still feeding!

2Co 11:13 For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.

Go back to the list of gifts; the ORDERED list! The very FIRST gift is that of "Apostle". Now, Paul is pointing out how men can be "false apostles". If the very first gift can be falsified, then every other gift can be as well -- right down to languages. This means there are not only people who are operating in false gifts, who APPEAR real, but they are propogating, teaching, expanding and enticing others to feed the lusts of their own flesh using the precise same set of thoughts!

I challenge you again: START SOMEWHERE. The place to start is to get an understanding how how the lusts in YOUR body war against, capture and enslave your mind and how the lusts USE your mind to produce the thoughts, which produce the chemicals that feed the lusts.

Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members having warred against the law of my mind, and taking me captive by the law of sin being in my members.

Jam 4:1 From where do wars and fightings among you come? Is it not from this, from your lusts warring in your members?

I challenge you again: START SOMEWHERE. The place to start is to get an understanding how how the lusts in YOUR body war against, capture and enslave your mind and how the lusts USE your mind to produce the thoughts, which produce the chemicals that feed the lusts.

Edited September 7, 2008 by HisMindinme

[Jeremiah Joel]

This may have been addressed before on this thread, if so please excuse me if I post this again.

The purpose of speaking in tongues is to edify/building up yourself in the most holy faith.

In Acts 10:is were we find the household of Cornelius having Peter come to them, to preach the gospel to them. If we compare spiritual (I Cor 2:9-13) with spiritual we find similar phrases with in the account.

1: Acts10:5-6 This is the angel telling Cornelius to get Peter and particularly vs. 6 ...he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do

2: Acts 10:32 This is the same account of the angle tell Cornelius to get Peter said in a slightly different way vs. 32...... when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

3: Acts 11:14 This is yet the same account of the angle speaking to Cornelius telling him to get Peter, rehearsed by Peter to the Jews said in yet a slightly different way vs 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

4: We find this same exact speech in Acts 2:37-38 vs. 37...... Men and brethren what shall we do[/color]

All three of these accounts are slightly divers from one another yet, we see in Acts 11: 14 Peter understands Cornelius's story about the angle having to do with salvation. Peer is the one that was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, a very important point to listen to what this man said.

How did the Jews that came with Peter know that the Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Ghost?:

Acts 10:44-48 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded(ordered them) them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We can see clearly here that the Jews that came with Peter to the household of Cornelius new that they had received the Holy Ghost because they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

We can also see in Acts 11:15-18 the same account of the Holy Ghost falling on the household of Cornelius.

Acts 11:15-18 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning (Acts 2:1-4). Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

The Jews knew that the Gentiles had been granted repentance unto life, because they had received the Holy Ghost just like they did at the beginning (Acts 2:1-3).

These things that I speak are not meant to do anything but to bring forth truth to the gift of the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues (divers kinds of tongues is not the same thing as the gift of the Holy GHost and speaking in another tongue (your own pray language)

Jeremiah Joel