Losing salvation

[Guest A Stone]

I can't believe this!

Am I to understand that people believe that once you become a Christian and then you sin, that it means you were never saved in the first place???? So, then. When you become a Christian (really saved) you never sin. You are perfect in every way. You never lie, you never gossip, you never steal. You never cheat.

That is soooo dumb!! Of course Christians will sin. We have a fallen nature!

But the difference between us and unbelievers is that we have the blood of Jesus Christ. Unbelievers do not. The blood is there for our initial salvation and then it is there for us again and again in our daily lives; every minute, every hour, every day, every week, every month, every year. Oh - My - Gosh! What would I do without the blood of the Lamb! Praise the Lord!!

I don't know about you guys, but I know I'm saved. I have a personal relationship with Him and I am so glad He loved me enough to bring me into the reality of His life. Praise the Lord!!

Get a clue people! :oww:

.

[other one]

:oww: I just love it when people get emotional about things I agree with.......

ain't it great!!!! :oww:

[Khristeeanos]

A Stone,

Do you believe that it is possible to live above sin while still here on earth?

[Guest phelanfine]

Well sorry guys

If the scriptures that I posted don't mean anything to you. If you would rather forget that they are there. so be it. amen

Do you believe that it is possible to live above sin while still here on earth?

The only way today to live above sin while still here on earth is to come out of living by the power of the beast (nation) and live in faith in the LORD alone.

1 Corinthians 4:

. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power

Matthew 7: 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

JESUS CHRIST IS LORD

[godrulz]

There is not a direct correlation between physical birth and spiritual rebirth. The analogy is not a one-for-one parallel truth in all senses.

Robert Shank ('Life in the Son: A study of the doctrine of perseverance... 15 pages dealing with 'born of God'): A popular and serious error is the assumption that an equation somehow exists between physical birth and spiritual birth: whatever is intrinsic in physical birth is equally intrinsic in spiritual birth...Laboring under such erroneous assumption, many have concluded that spiritual birth, like physical birth is necessarily irrevocable. "If one has been born...how can he possibly become unborn? I may be a wayward disobedient son, but I must forever remain my father's own son."

Essential differences between physical/spiritual birth:

i) Physical birth effects the inception of the life of the subject in toto, whereas spiritual birth involves only a transition from one mode of life to another.........deals with objections...

ii) In physical birth, the subject has no prior knowledge and gives no consent, whereas in spiritual birth, the subject must have a prior knowledge of the Gospel and give consent....deals with objections....

iii) In physical birth, the individual receives a life independent of his parents. They may die, but he lives on. But in spiritual birth, the subject receives no independent life. He becomes a partaker of the life and nature of Him who begets- a participant, by faith, in the eternal life of God in Christ 'who is our life.'

In view of the obvious essential differences, it cannot be considered strange that spiritual birth, unlike physical birth, is not irrevocable....Physical birth and spiritual birth are equally real, but essentially different. While an analogy/metaphor exists between the two, there is no equation whatever.

deals with many relevant Scriptures.... what is born of the flesh is flesh; what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Again, salvation is in the realm of relationship and moral choices, not metaphysical/physical changes.

[Guest Calamity]

I mean, if I am a professed Christian and I am living for God today, and yet 5 years from now I fall away, I will be told I was "never saved."

But if I don't fall away 5 years from now, but persist until the end, that proves that I was saved?

But by this method, I will never know if I am saved TODAY because if I ever fall away, that proves I wasn't saved ever.

I understand that people want to feel secure in Christ and that is good.

But this teaching actually leads to the exact opposite conclusions.

Say I am a professed Christian and I used to be addicted to pornography but have overcome that by the grace of God.  If a few years from now I stumble back into it, how am I to know that I was ever saved in the first place?

Hey - do you see what you're saying here? That OSAS leads to not being able to know if you're saved or not? That is EXACTLY what you (and others) are saying about NON-OSAS beliefs. How much sin can you do, before you're considered "falling away" or "Jumping out of God's hands"? How in the world could you ever have any kind of security with that sort of belief? And on top of it, you think we can live sinless while still here on earth? Does that mean, that you believe if we aren't sinless, then we aren't saved? That's the "logical" conclusion to what you're saying.

I mean, if I am a professed Christian and I am living for God today, and yet 5 years from now I fall away, I will be told I was "never saved."

OK, here for example. Your side would say that instead of 'never being saved', that you had given up your salvation.

But if I don't fall away 5 years from now, but persist until the end, that proves that I was saved?

You'd say that this is the condition you have to meet in order to KEEP your salvation that you had to begin with.

But by this method, I will never know if I am saved TODAY because if I ever fall away, that proves I wasn't saved ever.

By your method, not only would you never know for sure if you were saved, you'd pretty much have to have an attitude of, "if I do this, then I'll stay saved, and if I do that, then I'll not be saved". Get it? "I", "I", "I"....

Clue: Your salvation does not depend on anything that you do, or don't do, other than believing, repenting and accepting what Jesus did for you. Afterwards, anything you do has no effect whatsoever, on your salvation. On your rewards or no rewards, yes. On your joy or no joy, yes. On your closeness of walk with God, or not, yes. On your salvation? No.

Anyone who thinks that something they do or don't do, has any bearing on their being saved or not - or anyone who thinks they can live sinless like Jesus did, while here on earth, really needs to step back and look at what they're saying. We are not God, and we cannot do what He did. We can't provide salvation, or recall salvation, and we can't live sinless. Only one man did that, and that's why He was the perfect sacrifice for us, because He was sinless, and no other man ever was, or ever will be, while on earth and in the flesh. If anyone could do that, then they could be a sacrifice themselves, like Jesus was. That's the "logical" conclusion to that point of view, in my opinion.

I am secure in my salvation, because it' s not up to me to keep it, or earn it, or to make it "stick". If it was, then I would have no security at all, because I'm human, and I know (at least partly) how sinful the flesh can be. I know how weak I am, and how pitiful any attempts I make to be sinless really are.

Isa.64

[6] But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

[Khristeeanos]

I mean, if I am a professed Christian and I am living for God today, and yet 5 years from now I fall away, I will be told I was "never saved."

But if I don't fall away 5 years from now, but persist until the end, that proves that I was saved?

But by this method, I will never know if I am saved TODAY because if I ever fall away, that proves I wasn't saved ever.

I understand that people want to feel secure in Christ and that is good.

But this teaching actually leads to the exact opposite conclusions.

Say I am a professed Christian and I used to be addicted to pornography but have overcome that by the grace of God.

Edited May 24, 2004 by dimeministries

[Guest Calamity]

QUOTE 

Clue: Your salvation does not depend on anything that you do, or don't do, other than believing, repenting and accepting what Jesus did for you.

In other words, we are saved by grace through faith!

QUOTE 

Afterwards, anything you do has no effect whatsoever, on your salvation. On your rewards or no rewards, yes. On your joy or no joy, yes. On your closeness of walk with God, or not, yes. On your salvation? No.

You just said we are saved through faith, then you rescend that and say that we are not saved through faith.

Which is it? 

Huh? I don't see where you are seeing that I said that. Double

[Khristeeanos]

QUOTE

[Guest Calamity]

Oh, ok. In your way of thinking, I see what you mean. But, once you believe, repent, accept, (in my belief), that's it. It's signed, sealed and as good as delivered.

Eph.1

[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And the only way we cannot fall, or fall away, is because HE KEEPS US from falling. Not by anything we do, but by what He has done.

Jude.1

[24] Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

You don't get salvation by works, and works won't keep it for you either. It's pretty simple.