Bats classified as bird or no? & corners of the earth

[jeffnevins]

A new topic (hope no one minds)-

Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

People that poke at the Bible's science on YouTube usually go for the bats as birds.

And-

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Today, corners of the earth is an expression, but is that how it was being used then?

Thanks for any insights-

[speckles]

The Bible was not made to be THAT type of science book.

Job clearly teaches that the earth is round, and it seems that this was known from the beginning as Job was one of the oldest books. The Bible describes things visually when it comes to geography and celestial science topics. There are four directions (main) therefore there are four corners of the earth. There is also references to God hanging the stars, but nobody in their right mind actually thinks God hung them like laundry.

And...animals were described according to their visual characteristics and function.

You had birds (flying things)

Creeping things (reptiles, bugs, stuff like that)

etc

And they were also described that way to deal with their spritual symbolism (birds-heaven-air-spirits)(creeping things-cursed ground-sin-evil men and demons and etc)

[Ningning]

The Bible was not intended to be a book of science, per se, that is, it doesn't describe things in purely scientific terms or terminology. It is incorrect to point to the biblical narrative as scientific proof of anything. Rather, the Bible describes the universe and everything created in the universe as a testament of the One who created it. So when we read in Genesis that God said, "Let there be light", it doesn't describe light in terms of Newtonian or Einsteinian or quantum physics; the narrative doesn't discuss the properties of light (speed, wave/particle paradox, Doppler effect over great distances, etc.); the narrative doesn't discuss the mechanism by which God's command caused the light to come into being. The narrative simply says that God spoke and the thing came into being. Why? Because the narrative is about the attributes of the Creator, not the attributes of the things He created.

Amen.

[sheya joie]

My view is that, while the LORD certainly knew that He had made bats as mammals, He also knew that some people would think 'If it's got wings, it's a bird,' so He included bats in the list of forbidden birds to be sure His people wouldn't eat them. (Would you want to eat a bat? ewwwwww...)

[jeffnevins]

Thanks, Speckles. I appreciate having a response to people who challenge the Bible as not being inerrant.

[Guest uoflcard]

The Bible was not made to be THAT type of science book.

Job clearly teaches that the earth is round, and it seems that this was known from the beginning as Job was one of the oldest books. The Bible describes things visually when it comes to geography and celestial science topics. There are four directions (main) therefore there are four corners of the earth. There is also references to God hanging the stars, but nobody in their right mind actually thinks God hung them like laundry.

And...animals were described according to their visual characteristics and function.

You had birds (flying things)

Creeping things (reptiles, bugs, stuff like that)

etc

And they were also described that way to deal with their spritual symbolism (birds-heaven-air-spirits)(creeping things-cursed ground-sin-evil men and demons and etc)

I never read Job w/ an eye for its geological/astronomical insights. Thanks for the info, I've now found a couple interesting books to look into ("Astronomy and the Bible" - DeYoung, PhD)

[John Bernall]

A new topic (hope no one minds)-

Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

People that poke at the Bible's science on YouTube usually go for the bats as birds.

And-

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Today, corners of the earth is an expression, but is that how it was being used then?

Thanks for any insights-

i noticed most have jumped on the "corners of the earth" thing, so i will hit the bats

In Hebrew, bats are birds, not because they are called birds, but because all flying creatures whether bats or eagles are simply called winged flying creatures.

Animals in general are classified in Hebrew by their actions, flyers, swimmers, or simply living creature. these three catagories do have subcatagories as well.

John

[artsylady]

The classification system of animals (invented by Carolus Linneus - a creationist!) came along a loooong after the Bible was written. Linneus decided on how to classify or 'name' animals and the scientific community agreed with it and thus began to use it in the 1700's. In the 1600's a scientist may have called a bat a bird and they would not have been wrong because the classification system had not yet been invented. The classification system, known as taxonomy, isn't a law of science, just a system to classify species.

it could also just be a problem with language evolution In Bible times, it's obvious from the description that a unicorn was not a one-horned horse. (That idea was invented in medieval times.) A hare was not a rabbit - it was probably some sort of a bovine. Sheya Joy could be right in that back then, any flying thing may have been called a bird. Or, a bat could have been a completely different animal, like the unicorn and the hare.

As far as the four corners of the earth go, I've heard it said that it could mean, north, south, east, west.

[John Bernall]

Is it grasping at straws when Job clearly states that the earth is hung on nothing?

the funny thing about Job's statement, that the earth is hung on nothing is that it doesn't literally mean nothing.

He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing (בלי־מה). Job 26:7

these words for nothing, Beli-mah (בלי־מה), literally mean "Without What?" it is an expression not meaning "Nothingness", but pertains to the "Ineffible", that is, something inexpressible due to the lack of science or vocabulary pertaining to its existence. so he wasn't saying that it hangs on nothing, but that what it hangs on is beyond comprehension.

i know this has little or nothing to do with the discussion in general, but i thought it interesting to share.

John

[Shiloh62]

A new topic (hope no one minds)-

Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

People that poke at the Bible's science on YouTube usually go for the bats as birds.

And-

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Today, corners of the earth is an expression, but is that how it was being used then?

Thanks for any insights-

Bats are mammals. Replace the wings with legs and you have a mouse.