What has evolution done for you lately?

[Old Timer]

Steff mentioned "Mathematics of Populations

Edited May 31, 2004 by Old Timer

[other one]

I thought it may be of value to briefly list the many benefits afforded to mankind since the introduction of modern evolutionary thinking by Charles Darwin.

Now let

[Bread_of_Life]

Old Timer,

You claim that many have been driven from Christianity by evolution - do you know of any? If you do, please put them in touch with me, and I'll be the first to tell them how dumb it is to make religious conclusions on the basis of a scientific theory.

Also, I would say that the primary thing we gain from *any* scientific advancement is the truth. If Darwinism created zero technology ever it would be worth having because it is a large iterative step towards the truth on the origin of species.

You value the truth too right?

[Old Timer]

Other one, Sam.

If I implied that I was against space research, NASA, or the money spent on Hubble, etc. then I must say that

[Bread_of_Life]

I expect (perhaps I am wrong) that your belief in evolution makes you think the Bible is mostly fiction and myth.

You most certainly are wrong, I have never and would never use evolution as a good reason for disbelieving in Christianity (although I would like to see a good account of what to do with it - I've never seen a good Christian account of how it "fits in", maybe I havn't been looking hard enough).

Unfortunately, our education system is so horribly lacking in basic philosophy tuition, that some people may come out of school thinking that evolution disproves Christianity, just like many people come out of school thinking that evolution proves that morality is null, or that because it's natural it must be good. Ethics, theology and philosophy are all conspicuously missing from our school curricula that people do get stupid ideas, but that isn't evolution's fault, it's the fault of our schools, our local and federal governments, and ourselves.

[artsylady]

Unfortunately, our education system is so horribly lacking in basic philosophy tuition,

YEAH!!!!!

(STANDING UP AND CHEERING!!!!!)

SA - we've found our common ground!

I'm a BIG believer in teaching philosophy and teaching it at a young age - like 5 or 6! The problem with our school systems - right from kindergarten to university is that we are never taught to THINK! We are taught to parrot back whatever our teacher has told us. We do this on tests or exams and we pass with flying colors.

Ever hear of a student who decides to write an essay on a topic that the teacher is against? They'll usually get a D even if the essay is thought-provoking, well-written, etc. But the teacher will pass them for the effort at least, but punish them for thinking by giving them a low grade.

But this parroting back what you've been told to pass tests and exams goes well into university level. Ever hear of a creationist trying to make a point in a university classroom? They're jeered at and belittled! Don't you dare even mention another theory outside of evolution. Sure, you can mention your theories on aliens or whatever, so long as evolution plays a part. It's a clique. Nothing more.

So the science student memorizes everything he or she is taught by her professor, who was taught by his professor, and so on and so on, since Darwin's day. The science student doesn't need to question 'why'. 'Why' is not part of science.

And most scientists don't study philosophy. Philosophy certainly is not part of the required credits toward a science degree, although it should be.

[Bread_of_Life]

So the science student memorizes everything he or she is taught by her professor, who was taught by his professor, and so on and so on, since Darwin's day. The science student doesn't need to question 'why'. 'Why' is not part of science.

I'm not trying to be funny or patronising artsylady, but it's clear that you've never actually studied science at university level.

At school, or at least, at some schools, science is very much taught on the basis of "learn this, learn that, don't ask why." However, at my school (it was a private school, so it isn't representative of schools in general in the UK) - science was always taught in relation to experimental evidence, and often in context of haivng actually done the experiment. That's how science should be taught.

At university level, just about the only question that gets asked is "why". We barely needed to get taught that our primary job was to challenge theories and the status quo - because it happened every day all around us. I'm afraid if this was your experience of science in school, then that's a shame, but it isn't the way that universities teach science, at least not the one I went to!

And most scientists don't study philosophy.

Now *that* ***is*** a shame!! I think every scientist should have to pass epistemology 101 and philosophy of science 101 just to attain their degree.

[Osiris]

So the science student memorizes everything he or she is taught by her professor, who was taught by his professor, and so on and so on, since Darwin's day.  The science student doesn't need to question 'why'. 

The irony.

What would you say about praying a prayer 10 times to be forgiven, or parroting back the scriptures without questioning them why they happen?

Why did God create Satan when God knew Satan would be bad?

Why? No, you are not allowed to ask why because "why" is not part of religion.

Another one would be, how do we know the bible is the word of God?

Because it says it in the bible? But if the answer is in the bible, how do we know this answer is right? I guess it is not allowed to ask why to such circular reasoning.

'Why' is not part of science. 

Actually, science is all about 'why' and 'how', 'what', 'when' and 'who' as well.

[artsylady]

I'm not trying to be funny or patronising artsylady, but it's clear that you've never actually studied science at university level.

At school, or at least, at some schools, science is very much taught on the basis of "learn this, learn that, don't ask why." However, at my school (it was a private school, so it isn't representative of schools in general in the UK) - science was always taught in relation to experimental evidence, and often in context of haivng actually done the experiment. That's how science should be taught.

I don't mean experiments per se. I don't mean 'why does this chemical react this way when mixed with this." I'm talking the bigger questions. The philisophical questions "why are we here"? "why was Darwin's philosophy accepted?" "why don't all scientists agree"? "why can't there be more than one accepted theory"

[Guest LCPGUY]

I'm not trying to be funny or patronising artsylady, but it's clear that you've never actually studied science at university level.

At school, or at least, at some schools, science is very much taught on the basis of "learn this, learn that, don't ask why." However, at my school (it was a private school, so it isn't representative of schools in general in the UK) - science was always taught in relation to experimental evidence, and often in context of haivng actually done the experiment. That's how science should be taught.

I don't mean experiments per se. I don't mean 'why does this chemical react this way when mixed with this." I'm talking the bigger questions. The philisophical questions "why are we here"? "why was Darwin's philosophy accepted?" "why don't all scientists agree"? "why can't there be more than one accepted theory"

All are excellent questions Jen but I've never seen and valid answers to them

Bro John