The divorce and remarriage question

[JCISGD]

My opinion is that the only annulment is as Joseph thought their betrothed had committed fornication and thereby broken their vow, and so it was not joined by God who knows all things and would not be party to the supposed joining. Correct it was not marriage in Gods sight, and therefore annuled.

And that opinion does not line up with CLEAR scripture overall.

Jesus used the word 'wife' in His exceptions...not 'espoused wife' as even used for Mary in a verse or two while she was a betrothed wife (prior to consummation). Is the Lord of all creation so ignorant that He DOESNT know how to say 'ESPOUSED wife' ? I mean *I* can surely figure out how to do it...but apparently some believe Jesus was not able to figure it out ?

>>>Jesus said ''wife'' not "espoused" in His exceptions

>>>Refuting "only during betrothal"

And again you are in error. Jewish betrothal WAS 'married' lacking in hometaking and consummation...it was VERY much binding as marriage....so much so that the woman who committed willful adultery against her husband would be put to death just as any married woman would have.

>>>A wife is a lawful wife even during the betrothal year

but now see also that although this concession was granted to the Jews,

No friend... YOU see that erroneous viewpoint. Few of us here do.

Putting away wasnt something 'granted' to the Jews..that is absurdity at its finest. Putting away was TOLERATED for the sake of the innocent (as it must always be) and REGULATED in Deut 24:1-4 by Moses (and thus God Himself) creating the writ of divorce to make is so these men could not just cast this woman out on a whim. They had to give her written record and once REmarried (gotta hate that word) she was NEVER permitted to be the mans wife again under any circumstances.

Divorce was never 'granted' to the Jews....divorce was to REGULATE this frivolous casting out of an innocent spouse.

>>>A little background on divorce

hence it is not mentioned in Mark and Luke or John,

Irrelevant.

*IF* this absurdity were actually a point then we have Matthew teaching his followers that Jesus said NO sign would be given that generation EXCEPT the sign of Jonah while Mark simply says NO sign would be given...so what is your excuse for Mark DENYING his audience the fact that Jesus said a sign WOULD be given....and not just any old sign but the greatest sign in the entire NT ....?

>>>The REST of the story...

Jesus now commands us to forgive which makes all this divorcing and remarriage wrong.

We are always to forgive, that point is irrelevant. One doesnt have to remain in a dangerous, adulterous marriage in order to forgive.

you seem to contradict yourself. Did you say that leaving a marriage was ok if a person is in danger ? But now you are saying we need to forgive blanketly ? Does forgiveness = stupidity ?

Forgiveness is of the heart....it doesnt equal blind ignorance to remain in a dangerous marriage.

If seperation for safety or sanity is needed, this does not stop us praying and believing for God to change hearts.

Im sorry, where is this again in Gods word ?

Paul tells the corinthians that *IF* the unbeliever is please (the word means mutually, btw) that they are not not depart. It does not say that we are to remain in bondage to a nonexistant marriage waiting for someone to stop cheating and abusing.

Like it or not, we cannot get around the clear teaching that God hates all divorce, and it only happens because of hardened hearts.

Like it or not YOU CANNOT get around that GOD HIMSELF gave a writ of divorce thereby shattering your fallacious viewpoint...

Oh well friend your welcome to your opinion, and i still hold to mine. You havnt proven a dot to mind so far, im sure its mutual. Im off to other pastures.

[elizabetht]

I am divorced and remarried.......does this mean i live in a constant state of sin? Where does this leave me?

[~Shalhevet~]

In the Bible, remarriage is only offered to widows.

[Smalcald]

I am divorced and remarried.......does this mean i live in a constant state of sin? Where does this leave me?

Is Christianity about the past or the future? Is there a single point in scripture where what has happened in the past is not forgiven by Christ?

You will move forward like the rest of us.

[JCISGD]

SMD i think you confuse forgiveness as doing away with the need to come back inline with the moral laws governing our personal and social health and well being.

Can a murderer be forgiven if he keeps murdering? and likewise adultery committed must be repented of. The personal desires and implications of an adulterous marriage are subject to the good and well being of society and the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore for the good of all a Christian would be willing to lay down their life even to death, how much more the tempory sufferings of repenting of a wrongful marriage.

Is this a hard saying? Jesus told the disciples the only option after divorce was to be made a eunich, this is why they were so alarmed and cried "if thats the case it is better not to marry at all then".

His yoke is easy because it is always better and more joyful to obey God, but the road is narrow. Sin always destroys and ends in the death of something, but living by and in the grace of God leads to life and life eternal.

ElizabethT i urge you to seek God for the truth (not mine, although honestly believed), and also to weigh up the evidence found by googling the SPIRIT OF HOSEA website and especially the testimony of J Humphries and others.

[JCISGD]

I voted - ok if the unbelieving partner leaves. 1 Corinthians 7 v 15- But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.

I'd like to find out exactly what my marrying position is. I still don't know to this day.

I lived with a man AS husband and wife for near on 12 1/2 years, but was convicted by God of the sin involved in living in that situation after I became Saved. I have since been apart from him for 5 years now with reconciliation NOT an option.

If anyone knows of the Biblical outlook on my situation, could you please respond to this post? Can I get married or am I to remain single? (Sorry KCO2 - I don't mean to hijack your thread..)

Hi His girl, i dont know if you have your answer by the Holy Spirit yet, but i reread your post today while browsing this topic. IMO you are biblically free to marry as you were never lawfully married.

I wont labour here at this point to present all the biblical proofs, except to say that the only exception given by Jesus is in Mathew and the anti D/R veiw is that this was only if a women was found not to be the virgin she claimed or if it was a unlawful marriage in the first place, i.e incest or adulterous.

"Whoever divorces his wife" is talking about their first marriage as Jesus plainly taught that from the begining marriage was for life, and this is further proven by Rom 7: 2+3 which although an analogy of law and grace, it was a universal truth accepted by the then world or else Paul was faulty in using it.

I have reentered the discussions on MDR as i am now more fully equipped and convinced of my opininion than when i first started here at worthy, and at one point i was almost swayed back by Foc who was pro remmarriage.

The final responsibitlity is ours to seek the truth and ask the Holy Spirit to get us beyond any bais we may have.

God bless you in your search, i know mine was fraught with trials for 20 yrs because i did not trust my ability to hear accurately from the Holy Spirit and relying on others i sunk further into error and dispair. I thank God for His mercy in persisting with me.

[Smalcald]

SMD i think you confuse forgiveness as doing away with the need to come back inline with the moral laws governing our personal and social health and well being.

Can a murderer be forgiven if he keeps murdering? and likewise adultery committed must be repented of. The personal desires and implications of an adulterous marriage are subject to the good and well being of society and the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore for the good of all a Christian would be willing to lay down their life even to death, how much more the tempory sufferings of repenting of a wrongful marriage.

Is this a hard saying? Jesus told the disciples the only option after divorce was to be made a eunich, this is why they were so alarmed and cried "if thats the case it is better not to marry at all then".

His yoke is easy because it is always better and more joyful to obey God, but the road is narrow. Sin always destroys and ends in the death of something, but living by and in the grace of God leads to life and life eternal.

ElizabethT i urge you to seek God for the truth (not mine, although honestly believed), and also to weigh up the evidence found by googling the SPIRIT OF HOSEA website and especially the testimony of J Humphries and others.

So then you would condone two divorces instead of just one?

Now, as you point out we must not live in sin, and indeed there are cases where I agree with you as far as this second marriage goes. Let us say you committed adultery and divorced and re-married, in that case I think there is a major problem.

But even in this case; what if the first husband or wife has moved on and re-married and has no desire to reconcile? Consider a case where two people divorce for some reason that is not biblical, now they both move on and re-marry. One person hears what you are saying and says well I must get out of this marriage as it is not valid, they divorce their husband or wife but their first wife is already married to someone else. Can they really be married to that person? What about the children in the second marriage should they be abandoned? Is this what Christ would have us do if you look at the totality of His teachings?

I think we can go down an almost insane rabbit hole with this whole thing. Which is why each case must be taken individually. There are cases in which I agree with you the second marriage is not really valid, but there are many cases in which it is indeed what Christ would want.

It could all be solved if we would get the Church more involved in divorce. The Church should grant or not grant divorces we need this advice and counsel. Unfortunately I don't think people would trust the Protestant Churches to do that, in that we no longer recognize Churches as having any true authority, we are all pretty much on our own.

[Guest Butero]

I am divorced and remarried.......does this mean i live in a constant state of sin? Where does this leave me?

Before I try to answer this question, I want to point out that if your divorce was as a result of adultery, you are ok. If your divorce was because you just didn't get along or something like that, then you committed a sin, first by getting a divorce, and then by getting re-married. Even so, the Bible doesn't say that you are condemned to hell because you messed up. Like any other sin, you can receive forgiveness by confessing your wrong doing to God, committing yourself to doing right from now on, and moving forward. I do not believe you are in a constant state of sin, but you do have to admit to the sin you already committed and confess it to God, if you haven't already done so.

[JCISGD]

SMD, please know that i am not attacking you or your right or reasons, which you obviously honest thought and endeavour to be just into.

I think we are wrong to call a second divorce wrong if it is an act of repentance and an unlawful marriage. What do you counsel a father who marries his daughter and then comes to Christ?. He is not wrong to divorce/Annul the marriage and IMO this is not a divorce God hates, but one that He requires.

I need to be careful here though as those who testify to repentence of remmarriage do not readily talk of divorce, but those i know of always halt living together as husband and wife. I admit i need more light on this point.

You ask about spouses that are unwilling to reconcile?. It is my belief that God will not suffer the innocent party to go without a marriage partner permanently.

Do you believe that the same God who made a donkey talk and the great emperor Nebuccaneezer eat grass, is unable to turn back a wayward spouse?

Im not sure of what happens when we mess up things by marrying another instead of waiting for God, but i have heard of the wayward spouse dying and leaving way for the believing spouse to remarry. I am fully convinced from examples of God vindicating me in even small matters even before i was saved, that as long as i leave it to Him, He will achieve much quicker and better results than me.

I will admit difficulty with Duet 24:1-4 in reguards to reconcilling to a spouse if we or they have remmarried. But i think we should be careful of applying rules set for Israel as a nation that God was wanting to set apart from all other nations through the use of perculiar rules and customs different from all others, if we can find NT instructions that superceed these, such as "love your enemies".

Those of Moses time were under considerable less light than we who are under the gospel light and infilling of the Holy Spirit. God in those times has indicated clearly enough that He overlooked some things and treated them according to their understanding.

So also we do not discount OT laws, but look to see the reason of them and if they still apply to us, such as the 10 commandments, or wether they are better fulfilled by an improved rule of action.

We do not treat a rattle snake as we do a puppy, (even if some do, lol) yet neither is wrong.

There just seems no way around Rom7:2+3 and the exception in Mathew 5:32 in this light and Jesus`use of genesis beginings be found to contadict. Very important also in the very same chpt vs 17,18+19 "DO NOT THINK, that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

"For assuredly, i say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the the law till it all is fulfilled."Whoever therefore breaks one of the LEAST of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.....v 20 " for i say unto you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven".

Jesus then goes on to list the commandments not to be broken, divorce and remmarriage being among them. " whoever maries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" clearly breaking the 7th commandment.

But we all know we are arguing if there is infact an exception, and knowledge of the spirit of the 7th commandment shows us that its design is to keep society and families strong and free of defilement and breakdown of authority that allows Satan access to bring all manner of vice and confusion.

Therefore to divorce because of adultery and remmarry, committing adultery further does not line up with the spirit of the law, not to mention unforgiveness, hardness of heart and unbelief "denying the power of God".

I urge all to seek Gods peace about it and do nothing doubtful either way, for that certainly is sin no doubt about it.

[JCISGD]

Butero i respect your even handed and reasonable approach in your posts previous, but i think you err in your advice to ElizabethT in that adultery an exception to divorce.

why does Jesus command forgiveness 70 X 7 and say unforgiveness will bar us from heaven, call all divorce "hardness of heart" and point us back to Genesis stating "what God has joined together, let no man cut in two" and then contradict himself by opening up a way for divorce as opposed to a miracle of faith. Many today have believed in the face of seeming extreme odds for the return and or salvation of a wayward spouse, not to be disappointed.

At the risk of seeming overbearing and some sort of authority which im not, i urge you to consider that the only exception is for those marriages that were unlawful due to Porneia/fornication, such as incest or deceit before the actual consumation of marriage, where the woman was found not to be a virgin if infact that was her claim.

There is no law about marrying a non virgin(former fornicator,prostitute or or such), and it is better that they marry if they indeed they have repented and never stray or divorce.