The Deity of Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

Part 2

Romans 6; 19-20 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Notice verse 16 right above

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Seems like man has a choice, the deprave state of man theory claim we are all lost without hope.

You are not understanding...

verse 16, the yielding of ourselves as servants of sin, is the result of depravity. It is the symptom of it. Men who live in sin yield themselves to sin all of the time. Paul is contrasting what they were before with what they are now, and so you have keep reading in vv. 17-18.

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

(Romans 6:17-18)

Notice a change in position and a change in their moral condition. This is really just expanding on what Paul says in v. 14:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

(Romans 6:14)

We are only under the law when we are under sin's dominion. "under the law," "in Adam" and "slave to sin" are three ways of saying the same thing. They each refer to the sinful condition of spiritual separation from God. When we are under sin we are "dead" to God, in a spiritual sense.

We are either under the law, or under grace. Both terms simply denote our spiritual standing before God. If we die without Jesus, we will stand before God under the law. If we die in Christ, we stand before God under grace.

When we study out what Salvation is, and what it entails, the idea that a mere man could have set it in motion is utterly absurd.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Within man is the Yetzer haRa the desire to sin I don

[BlindSeeker]

Christ must not have known ALL MEN are evil. It seems He understood there were some righteous people on the Earth. If there are some righteous, then not all the descents of Adam are depraved and evil.

I am incline to partially agree with part of this statement. I would say that the depraved and evil one's are those who reject the truth concerning God and His will.

There are those who do hunger for truth and are seeking it and therefore will find it, There are those who hunger for righteousness who likewise have the promise of Christ that they will be filled.

However, that is only because they have been convicted by the truth that they are poor in spirit because of their sins which have separated them from God . . . and therefore they mourn before God . . . but they will be comforted.

They problem is "all" have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Some through maliciousness and hatred, others because of ignorance who in sincerity head the wrong direction and do the wrong things and worship what they know not.

The promises of God are for those who love truth when it comes to them and embrace the gift of faith which comes from hearing God's word. By His grace they are quickened and enable to do and be what they could not do and be without a legal propitiation for their sins, a lamp for their feet and a light for the path they should walk and the indwelling of God's spirit to quicken, confirm, guide, comfort and strengthen them.

It is only those who place their faith in God via the revelation of His will (before Christ/after Christ) that are forgiven, quickened and healed in their relationship.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ,

he is a new creature

: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

However, all men due to their sins share a common state of alienation from God till they acknowledge their sins and submit themselves to God and cry out as did the jailer "What must I do to be saved?"

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said,

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced,

believing in God with all his house.

[Ovedya]

Houston we have a problem.

We know

So whenever you see "son of God" it means "God" 100% of the time.

This is compounded by

the Bible refers to Jesus as "THE Son of God." It is careful to make that disctinction and used in that unique fashion it ALWAYS refers to His deity, it ALWAYS means He is God.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Adam is called THE Son of God, which means Adam is God 100%of the time

We are left with two choices

Either the title The son of God doesn

[Guest shiloh357]

This is how the church interprets those scriptures.

Yes, and the church is correct, as your approach, as is customary avoids plain sense of passages.

The New Testament shows man kind apart from redemption to be alienated (separated from God), without God, universally sinful before God, slaves of sin, enemies of God, etc. None of that indicates any kind of fellowship with God, which then ends up with only one option. Mankind is by default separated from God.

The Old Testament doesn

[Guest shiloh357]

the Bible God tells Adam,

[Guest shiloh357]

Houston we have a problem.

We know

So whenever you see "son of God" it means "God" 100% of the time.

This is compounded by

the Bible refers to Jesus as "THE Son of God." It is careful to make that disctinction and used in that unique fashion it ALWAYS refers to His deity, it ALWAYS means He is God.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Adam is called THE Son of God, which means Adam is God 100%of the time

We are left with two choices

Either the title The son of God doesn

[Botz]

Hi Mike.

So am I to asume that you believe Jesus never existed in any form at all before the time He was born of a woman?

If I believe Christ is a man , how could He exist before He was born? He did existed in the mind of God .

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Does this mean we existed at the foundation of the World, or does it mean God knew who we are at the foundations of the World? We existed in the mind of God.

Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Was Christ crucified at the foundation of the World or did God know what would happen to Christ from the very beginning?

Hi Mike I will continue with what we are discussing...you said,

If I believe Christ is a man , how could He exist before He was born? He did existed in the mind of God .

I find it hard to understand how you are satisfied that the L-rd Jesus simply existed in the mind of G-d before He was born.

So in the light of this, how do you see this verse? Or more importantly what do you believe the Scriptures are revealing to us through this passage?...

1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said,

[Guest shiloh357]

They separated themselves from God by not following His commandment. Show me where God tells Israel anything different. Show me where God claims it is because of what Adam did that HE is calling Israel back.

We have enough light from the scriptures in the New Testament to know that Israel's failures to follow God's commandments is rooted in man's spiritual separation from God. Israel's disobedience was a symptom of a much larger problem of spiritual death.

QUOTE

You will not held accountable for your Father's sins, but that is a totally disimilar issue.

No it is not we all descend from Adam You claim because of Adam I stand condemned.

Actually it is the Bibile says you stand condemned because of Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-19). Without Christ, you stand condemned and guilt before God and if you die in that state, hell is the consequence of choosing continued separation from God.

I never said every place Christ is mentioned must include a reference to His deity.

Not in so many words, perhaps, but that has been a constant fallacy in operation in your posts.

My point is, the love of God is in Christ, if Christ is God this verse is confusing

It is a "confusion" you are trying to manufacture. The Love of God is in Christ in that it is manifest in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the revelation and embodiment of the love of God.

QUOTE

You need to explain why, if mankind is not sinful, that Jesus needed to die for man. You need to demonstrate why Jesus died to save man from something that man did not need saving from.

All men sin, all men need Christ

Why do all men need Christ?

QUOTE

Physical death is a symptom of spiritual death

WHAT???

Sin is spiritual death and separation from God. Physical death is symptom or result of that condition.

QUOTE

the problem is that you really don't understand "rightesous." Righteous does not mean perfect or sinless. "Rigtheous" is a forensic term that simply means depending on the context, rightstanding. It does not mean that you are without a sinful nature.

Let me see them some people are separated from God, alienated from God, yet they are in right standing with God. again WHAT???

No, that is not what I said. I said that being righteous does not mean that one is sinless. Stop putting words in my mouth, mike.

Here are some other things I said:

Well you need to understand that being righteous does not mean that one does not have a depraved human nature. Being righteous does not eradicate human nature or the flesh. Even the righteous people of the Old Testament struggled with sin often and many of them failed. The Bible says that ALL have sinnned and fallen short of God's glory. In the Greek, that last half (fallen short of God's glory) is in the present middle indicative, which renders it as the continuous, present condition of man. Man is always falling short of God's standard of righteousness, which is simply another way of expressing man's ongoing sinful depraved nature. Even the righteous heroes of the Bible were subject to the failings of human nature giving evidence of their own moral corruption. This is seen in the lives of Abraham, Moses, Noah, Elijah, Jacob, David, Samson, etc.

When a person is declared right before God he is no longer separated from God, but that does not mean he will be sinlessly perfect. It does not mean he does not have a morrally corrupt human nature.

QUOTE

God is one BEING. He is ONE Essence, ONE God. Jesus did not deny that there were three PERSONS in that one BEING.

So Christ lied when He told the scribe that his understanding was correct, we know the scribe didn

[Botz]

C. S. Lewis touches on the point of Jesus being Jewish, and what His statements would have meant to His peers.

"Among these Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says He is coming to judge the world at the end of time. Now let us get this clear. Among pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God: there would be nothing very odd about it. But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside the world who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips."

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

We have enough light from the scriptures in the New Testament to know that Israel's failures to follow God's commandments is rooted in man's spiritual separation from God. Israel's disobedience was a symptom of a much larger problem of spiritual death.

Israel