Are we really Christians?

[carlos123]

I wrote an article recently that I would like to discuss with others on this forum with respect to getting input on whether what I say is Scripturally sound and complete regarding the subject matter.

It's rather...well...controversial in that it reveals many persons who profess to be Christians to not be so. At least not when compared to the Bible's definition of what it means to be a Christian.

Because of the nature of what is said in my article...I felt a strong need to have others read it and discuss it with me, before I make it more generally available through my web site to local area Christians. I don't want to steer people wrong but I felt a very strong need to say what I did in my article.

Here is an excerpt from the beginning....

You may have well said the sinner's prayer. Perhaps you responded to an altar call and said a tearful prayer asking God to save you. Or maybe you view yourself as always having been a Christian as a result of having been born into a Christian family.

But...are you really a Christian by the Bible's definition of what it means to be one?

Did you know that according to the Bible, a Christian is a disciple and a disciple is a Christian?

...

The entire article can be found at http://churchofedmonton.org/are-you-really-a-christian

Please know that I am not trying to get people to go to my web site through Worthy (other than to read my article and discuss it's content with me so that I may gain more confidence...through input from Christians in general, that what I wrote is right on). My web site is not aimed at Christians overall. It is aimed at local Christians in the vicinity where I live. I am trusting the Lord to eventually start something wonderful, locally, through the web site I am working on.

The articles I post to the web site may, in time, get picked up by search engines and become generally known but I did not create my web site with that intention in mind. If that is all that happens...the site will fall short, far short, of how I believe the Lord can use it locally.

For now...I just want input on what I write or to discuss the content of my writing with those willing and interested in discussing such with me.

Any comments from anyone would be much appreciated.

Carlos

[ayin jade]

I guess Im easy to please. I liked it. It made me think, always a plus.

[Floatingaxe]

It's good, Carlos! Many could use a checkup, I'm sure.

[carlos123]

I guess Im easy to please. I liked it. It made me think, always a plus.

Thanks AyinJade! I changed a couple of key sentences in it in the last few minutes. One especially touchy one was the one where I talk about the need to consider all our possessions as being Christ's and by obvious and true implication...that of the members of Christ's Body.

Here is the most important change I made in case you or others missed it...

Acts 4:32

And the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

I changed...

Are we willing to do that in service to God? To no longer consider the things we have owned as our own but as being the common property of the members of Christ's Body? That is what Jesus lived and taught the disciples to do! If we truly love the Lord and are a real Christian...we will do the same.

To...

Are we willing to do that in service to God? To no longer consider the things we have owned as our own but rather the common property of those in the Body? If all we have owned becomes His, is it not also His through His Body? What happened in Acts above was only a reflection of what Jesus taught His disciples. If we truly love the Lord and are a real Christian...we will do the same.

Thanks again!

Anybody else? (unless you have more to add AyinJade!)

Carlos

[Guest]

.... Any comments from anyone would be much appreciated.....

Carlos!

Thank You.

Wonderful Article!

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 3:13

It Is A Much Needed Call To Come To The LORD Daily!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23

And To Seek His Holiness

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalms 139:23-24

And To Walk With God

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Vaya Con Dios Brother Carlos And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Iryssa]

Theologically, loved it, thought it was great! I completely agree that more people need to see the difference between being a real Christian and a cultural "Christian." My criticism is more stylistic than anything. I found it read more like a quiz or a series of questions rather than an article. If you'd submitted that to my paper (I edited the student newspaper when I was in college), I probably would have asked you to examine whether we could work on cutting down the number of questions posed and make them into clear statements, especially where there seem to be whole paragraphs that are nothing but questions. I think it's great to use questions for impact now and then, but when they're over-used, they do tend to lose their impact and become distracting.

Anyway, hope that helps I'm not saying this to be harsh or anything, just hoping to offer some constructive criticism.

[Trusting Jesus]

It's a good article, Carlos, and you are absolutely correct in saying that we need to put our faith into action. A couple of thoughts came to me, though. God knows hearts, and we are not saved by works. When a person accepts Christ there should be a change in how they act, how they talk, and there should be a hunger for God's word. We are to be "fruit" inspectors -- not judges. If someone says they are a Christian, but their life does not reflect it, shouldn't we lead them into a closer walk with Jesus? Shouldn't we encourage them to allow the fruit of their faith grow? The Scripture you quote is good. I might suggest getting into James with the faith and works that he talks about.

It's a good article and I don't mean this to sound like criticism....just comments.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[jmwhalen]

I wrote an article recently that I would like to discuss with others on this forum with respect to getting input on whether what I say is Scripturally sound and complete regarding the subject matter.

It's rather...well...controversial in that it reveals many persons who profess to be Christians to not be so. At least not when compared to the Bible's definition of what it means to be a Christian.

Because of the nature of what is said in my article...I felt a strong need to have others read it and discuss it with me, before I make it more generally available through my web site to local area Christians. I don't want to steer people wrong but I felt a very strong need to say what I did in my article.

Here is an excerpt from the beginning....

You may have well said the sinner's prayer. Perhaps you responded to an altar call and said a tearful prayer asking God to save you. Or maybe you view yourself as always having been a Christian as a result of having been born into a Christian family.

But...are you really a Christian by the Bible's definition of what it means to be one?

Did you know that according to the Bible, a Christian is a disciple and a disciple is a Christian?

...

The entire article can be found at http://churchofedmonton.org/are-you-really-a-christian

Please know that I am not trying to get people to go to my web site through Worthy (other than to read my article and discuss it's content with me so that I may gain more confidence...through input from Christians in general, that what I wrote is right on). My web site is not aimed at Christians overall. It is aimed at local Christians in the vicinity where I live. I am trusting the Lord to eventually start something wonderful, locally, through the web site I am working on.

The articles I post to the web site may, in time, get picked up by search engines and become generally known but I did not create my web site with that intention in mind. If that is all that happens...the site will fall short, far short, of how I believe the Lord can use it locally.

For now...I just want input on what I write or to discuss the content of my writing with those willing and interested in discussing such with me.

Any comments from anyone would be much appreciated.

Carlos

_________

I need clarification on your post. I will not address all of your "proof text", but I first address the last quote, for that is all I need to discern what you are saying:

(bold/underline my emphasis)

"God offers us forgiveness of our sins through the blood of Jesus but that forgiveness is not offered that we might just continue living for ourselves. It is offered so that we might be able, through that forgiveness, to come back into right relationship with God. That we might be able to live as servants of God. The way we ought to live."-Carlos

Whenever I read a "but" in an assertion, it implies a forthcoming condition. Are you saying that justification is dependent on service, i.e., "as servants of God. The way we ought to live."? Or are you stating that service is a result of justification, but not the cause, an "upfront" condition/requirement?

"Biblically speaking you cannot be a Christian if you are not a disciple! To think otherwise is to be deceived or ignorant of the truth."-Carlos

Based on your earlier citations of "must be willing....", are you saying if you are not a "100% willing" follower of the Messiah, the Christ as pertaining to service, you are not a Christian? Please clarify.

"Many in the churches of today are both deceived and/or ignorant.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Many will say on the day that the Lord returns to seperate those destined for eternal life from those who are not..."Lord, Lord, did we not go to church faithfully every Sunday? And in your name give 10% of our money? And in your name do all these other wonderful things like have Christmas dinners for the poor and claim that we are Christians on our census forms?". And the Lord will rightly say to those who did all these things and more but who did not surrender their lives to Him that He might do what He wanted to do through them..."I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity".

To be a disciple does not mean being perfect. Disciples may still fall into sin. One only has to look at the twelve apostles to know that. They were weak in faith, they argued with each other over who was the greatest, they would have even called fire down from heaven to destroy others in selfishness had the Lord allowed them. But...their lives were given completely to Him. They were Christians." -Carlos

"But...their lives were given completely to Him."

Really? "completely"? 100%? Pretty "high bar", don't you think? Have you "given your life completely over to him"?

I have not. Has anyone on this board? You are confusing sanctification, our service, our

[carlos123]

Thanks very much for the input you all! From grammatical suggestions to theological questions and everything in between it's all the kind of input I wanted in order to help me make the article more useful to the Lord.

I will address the questions that were asked...if I can tonight. Otherwise in the next day or two as I get the chance. Lots to think about. Especially with regard to the questions you asked John.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Hi John,

You asked a lot of questions which I hope to address John but I will probably do so in multiple posts so as to not make a single post of mine way too long and to make my responses clearer. By the way...please feel free to ask me anything about my life or to make any points you think need making about what I wrote. I am very unlikely to be offended by anything you or anyone else might say about me or my article. Since my goal is to express what I believe to be God's view point respecting the subject matter it would be foolish for me to ignore any godly correction of either my life or what I write. I will readily agree to any correction which is godly in nature.

Now on to addressing some of your questions...with this first post in reply.

I need clarification on your post. I will not address all of your "proof text", but I first address the last quote, for that is all I need to discern what you are saying:

"God offers us forgiveness of our sins through the blood of Jesus but that forgiveness is not offered that we might just continue living for ourselves. It is offered so that we might be able, through that forgiveness, to come back into right relationship with God. That we might be able to live as servants of God. The way we ought to live."-Carlos

Whenever I read a "but" in an assertion, it implies a forthcoming condition. Are you saying that justification is dependent on service, i.e., "as servants of God. The way we ought to live."? Or are you stating that service is a result of justification, but not the cause, an "upfront" condition/requirement?

John...salvation is by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ as being the all sufficient sacrifice for our sins. It is NOT a salvation earned by our good works.

But the nature of saving faith is such that one cannot righly claim to be saved if they have not exhibited a faith in the blood of Christ that results in their giving Him their lives. Giving God our lives is an expression of saving faith in what Jesus did. Jesus Christ paved the way for us to be reconciled to God as God. To be reconciled from a state of being in rebellion to God to one of being submissive to Him as God.

Justification is not dependent on service but true justification IS dependent on the kind of faith that results in service. Without the kind of service that typifies a disciple there is NO saving faith. The Bible clearly says that a disciple is a Christian and a Christian is a disciple and it also clearly lays out who a disciple is. If we are not willing to be disciples then we do not have faith in Christ. A faith that would submit to God as God such that we would be willing to surrender our lives to Him as an expression of our choosing to walk before Him as God.

"Biblically speaking you cannot be a Christian if you are not a disciple! To think otherwise is to be deceived or ignorant of the truth."-Carlos

Based on your earlier citations of "must be willing....", are you saying if you are not a "100% willing" follower of the Messiah, the Christ as pertaining to service, you are not a Christian? Please clarify.

You MUST be willing to be a disciple. Plain and simple. There is no 100% about it John. You are either a disciple or you are not. One or the other. It's not a matter of being a disciple 60%, 80%, or even 100%. You either are or you are not based on the Bible's definition of what it means to be a disciple.

If we look squarely at what Jesus said about being a disciple I think or at least hope that most of us would be able to discern by the reaction of our own hearts as to whether we are a disciple or not. I know for myself that I am definitely a disciple of Jesus Christ. I have surrendered myself completely to God through faith in Him. Such that my life is no longer my own to do with as I wish but rather that it is His.

Where Jesus said you cannot be His disciple if you do not do this or are not willing to do this...then I say the same thing. That one cannot be a Christian if one is not willing to do this or that. Just as Jesus said. Given the truth that a disciple is a Christian and a Christian is a disciple.

I will continue with more responses to your questions in additional posts John...

Carlos