Hitlers' Youth corp reaches America

[undone]

This is the worst mess this country has been in since my grandparent's time.

When was your grandparents time?

My grandma was born in 1925 so it must have been in the 1930s.....when they were young. I remember them talking about it and it sounded like they were describing some other world. I didn't understand it until I grew up and read about it.

So they don't feel that the era of the Carter administration is worse than today? Higher unemployment, higher inflation, higher interest, and gas shortages all over the country?

I'd be curious to know. I was about 10-15 during those years. I remember my dad buying gas on certain days depending on whether your license plate ended with an odd or even number.

[mizzdy]

My grandma was born in 1925 so it must have been in the 1930s.....when they were young. I remember them talking about it and it sounded like they were describing some other world. I didn't understand it until I grew up and read about it.

So they don't feel that the era of the Carter administration is worse than today? Higher unemployment, higher inflation, higher interest, and gas shortages all over the country?

I'd be curious to know. I was about 10-15 during those years. I remember my dad buying gas on certain days depending on whether your license plate ended with an odd or even number.

Are you saying your were that old in the 20's and 30's or during the Carter adm.? My parents were born right before the depression started but thats all they remember growing up. Each one of them view it differently, my mom says it taught her to be grateful for everyday and everything she had, my dad on the other hand saw it as horrible and dwelt on the water gravy his mom made them eat. The vast difference I see is my mom came up in a christian home my dad did not. I remember the long lines of gas in the 60's and the prices in the 70's. Neither of my parents saw that time nor now anywhere near what the depression was but as my mom said the other day its just starting and she feels its going to be much worse this time around.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I'm saying that at some point you have to recognize that acts a person committed almost 40 years ago don't mean that we as a people need to completely ostracize them and everything they do. Ayers isn't a "good guy" when you look at his past. But at some point we have to put the past behind us and focus on the present instead of holding grudges.

Hamburgers - let me ask you - do you know what life was like before microwave ovens?

Yes, I do have a point to make here with this question.

We live in a popcorn society - instant gratification today, throw away tomorrow.

Ever notice how yesterday's headline is "old news"? It doesn't matter that yesterday's news has an impact even still today - it's still considered "the past".

When I read your comment above, I could not help but think on this.

Yes, it does matter what a man did 40 years ago. After all, why keep a man in jail for 60 years (if he lives that long)?

In the eyes of God, as we read in the Bible, a man's deeds are not forgotten until he repents of his deeds. Repentance is not just lip service. Repentance means a reversal of what was done. Repentance means, if possible, one makes amends for what was done.

A good example would be in the movie Shawshank Redemption. When Morgan Freeman's character went for his parole hearing near the beginning of the movie, he was playing lip service to being reformed. Towards the end of the movie at his parole hearing, he expressed a true change of heart. Did you see the movie, and could you tell the difference?

So, when I hear the comments from Ayers, I do not hear repentance nor a change of heart. That is the difference.

I hope one day you will understand.

And once again, I'm not claiming that Ayers is a good person. I am claiming that when someone hasn't committed a crime for almost 40 years, and is doing work for the state its ok to associate with him without making you some sort of sympathizer.

Say someone killed someone out of road rage 35 years ago, and is now a business executive. Does my interaction with that person make me a sympathizer to his actions of the past? Not at all, the issues are completely separate.

[Guest yod]

Say someone killed someone out of road rage 35 years ago, and is now a business executive. Does my interaction with that person make me a sympathizer to his actions of the past? Not at all, the issues are completely separate.

Hold the pickles!!!!!

Surely you can recognize the difference between a crime of passion (ie road rage) and a premeditated effort to overthrow a government without regard for who dies in the process?

What do you think about the Weather Underground sitting around deciding how they would kill 25 million people who opposed them? Actually Ayers wife, Bernadine Dohrn, is even more dangerous than he is. Bill Ayers didn't make the FBI Top Ten but his wife was on that list for many years.

Honestly, I think you've allowed yourself to be removed from reality while making this judgement. There is just no way I would ever partner for 3 minutes with such people on anything.

Much less 3 years....

[Guest yod]

You claim to be a Christian, correct?

no, she doesn't. for that reason, I think she deserves more slack than someone who does.

'Scuse me?

I'm a Christian. A Catholic, to be specific.

My bad.

I thought the question was about "Oh Hamburgers" who lists herself as "nonbeliever"

...but I wonder about you!!! (just kidding)

[Guest shiloh357]

And once again, I'm not claiming that Ayers is a good person. I am claiming that when someone hasn't committed a crime for almost 40 years, and is doing work for the state its ok to associate with him without making you some sort of sympathizer.

Say someone killed someone out of road rage 35 years ago, and is now a business executive. Does my interaction with that person make me a sympathizer to his actions of the past? Not at all, the issues are completely separate.

That doesn't wash, Hamburgers. You are comparing two disimilar things.

Ayer didn't simply commit "a crime." We are not talking about some misdemeanor or a felonly committed while he was still a juvenile. We are talking about a man who consciously plotted (however futile his ambition was) to overthrow the US government and not only escaped justice for his crimes, but has left a victims in his wake to whom he has never offered or made full restitution. He has never repented of is crimes, nor expressed regret over the values he possessed that drove him to such an insane agenda.

Could you associate yourself with someone who for all you know, continues to hold the same type of values that he had before when he committed such crimes?

[nebula]

And once again, I'm not claiming that Ayers is a good person. I am claiming that when someone hasn't committed a crime for almost 40 years, and is doing work for the state its ok to associate with him without making you some sort of sympathizer.

Say someone killed someone out of road rage 35 years ago, and is now a business executive. Does my interaction with that person make me a sympathizer to his actions of the past? Not at all, the issues are completely separate.

I'd like for you to imagine something for a little bit.

Suppose that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had gotten off.

Imagine either one of them decades later working for the state, like Ayers.

Would you have no problem working beside them? Would you think nothing of those working with or under them?

[MorningGlory]

This is the worst mess this country has been in since my grandparent's time.

When was your grandparents time?

My grandma was born in 1925 so it must have been in the 1930s.....when they were young. I remember them talking about it and it sounded like they were describing some other world. I didn't understand it until I grew up and read about it.

So they don't feel that the era of the Carter administration is worse than today? Higher unemployment, higher inflation, higher interest, and gas shortages all over the country?

I'd be curious to know. I was about 10-15 during those years. I remember my dad buying gas on certain days depending on whether your license plate ended with an odd or even number.

I'm not sure how they felt about the Carter years...they have both long since passed on. I was twelve when Carter took office and, truthfully, I don't remember much about that time. Too busy being a kid, I guess.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

And once again, I'm not claiming that Ayers is a good person. I am claiming that when someone hasn't committed a crime for almost 40 years, and is doing work for the state its ok to associate with him without making you some sort of sympathizer.

Say someone killed someone out of road rage 35 years ago, and is now a business executive. Does my interaction with that person make me a sympathizer to his actions of the past? Not at all, the issues are completely separate.

I'd like for you to imagine something for a little bit.

Suppose that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had gotten off.

Imagine either one of them decades later working for the state, like Ayers.

Would you have no problem working beside them? Would you think nothing of those working with or under them?

In a work setting, after years proven to be dedicated to their work, I would work with them, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. Because it doesn't matter what they had done in their past, it would only matter what they were planning to do in the future as far as work is concerned. I certainly wouldn't be best pals with them, but I believe myself to be professional enough to look beyond that for the sake of getting things done.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Oh Hamburgers!

[Guest yod]

In a work setting, after years proven to be dedicated to their work, I would work with them, and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Since Bill Ayers has recently stated in no uncertain terms that he is unrepentant of bombings during the 70s AND since he attended and spoke at an education Conference in Venezuala with Hugo Chavez just two years ago, (topic of re-educating students on radical socialism actually) I would say that he is "proven to be dedicated to his work" still.

If you have no problem hanging around with a person like that....who also planned the "elimination" of 25 million Americans over coffee, then I'd have to ask "where's the beef?" on your burger.

Do you have any discriminatory standards for whom you will work with?