The problem with Prosperity teaching today....

[stacey c]

Sorry RigMedic, I don't know how to copy the one line I wanted to respond to in your post. But your last statement that prosperity teaching does not teach about repentence. Wher did this idea come from or who?

I was under the teaching of a very annointed man of God who taught alot about prosperity and faith, and I assure you God is the the center, the all in all of this teaching. How can you have any kind of faith or prosperity of anykind in this life with out a firm commitment and dedicated life to our Lord and Savior?

God bless you, stacey c

Im not sure I quite understand what exactly your asking, however this is the jist of what I am trying to say. Any gospel preached that does not include someones need for repentance is a false gospel. Someone cant just say one side of it and leave off the other.

I feel that to not preach repentance turns someone to God for the wrong reason, and can also teach someone to love the things of the world. After all we are warned not to be friends of the world.

I understand what your saying and I'm in total agreement with you, but I do believe the blessings of God come along with a life that is totally committed to Him and faith in His Word. I was just wondering where the idea that prosperity teaching doesn't teach about repentence came from. I personally had never heard anyone teach that before, or omit the need for salvation.

I agree with you as well that the blessings of God come along with a life that is totally committed to Him. I'm not sure if we are allowed to name names, so I will just say that my idea of a prosperity gospel is one that teaches no repentance. I get this from certain televangelists we see on tv. I admit however that I have not personally investigated each one. There is one however which I have, and what he will do is call for people to repent, in the last 5 minutes of his service. My thinking is this, why on earth would any one have a godly sorrow for repentance if for the whole sermon, they were told about how much God wants good things for them. They dont have the full message. It would seem someone one would experimentally repent not because they are sorry for sinning against God, but because they want all those good things.

Maybe I have my terminology wrong, but what I am trying to say, is whatever kind of preaching that is called, is wrong.

Gotcha I don't pay much attention to tv preachers, maybe only one or two. But if they believed so strongly in a God that supplies all their needs they wouldn't be begging me to buy my blessing from them.

[7thseal]

God causes His people to prosper in a multitude of ways, sometimes financially, sometimes in their health, but most of the time in their spirit. Regardless of the means by which God's people prosper, it has nothing to do with their "level of faith" or their ability to "speak prosperity" into their lives.

I fully agree with Ovedya here, God desires that we ask of Him and He fully knows each one of our hearts...our intentions and desire for what we ask for. He looks at our heart and responds out of goodness. Sometimes that goodness means not receiving what we ask for because He sees the big picture and knows whether what we are asking for will keep us in a close relationship with Him or just the opposite, draw us away from Him. In the end I believe the intentions in our hearts and whether its in line with the expanding of His kingdom and for the benefits of others is what He looks at.

If its in line with His plan and for the benefits of others (not just ourselves).....we may get even more than what we ask for, such as in the case with Solomon.

1 Kings 3:5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee. 6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day. 7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in. 8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude. 9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? 10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing. 11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment; 12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee. 13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days. 14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

Notice what Solomon ask for was for the benefits of others...not just himself.

In the same, God gave him more than what he asked for...for the benefits of others, not just for Solomon.

God saw the intentions of Solomon's heart and it was for the benefits of others, not just in gaining more for himself.

[kross]

The problem with prosperity preaching is that it takes the emphasis off off sacrifice and suffering and puts it on taking care of self and indulgence.

[Guest shiloh357]

God has not disapponted me so far in the 7 years I've been walking with Him..it hasn't been a road paved in constant gold but the road has had brilliant diamond moments ...THOSE moments are worth more than a year of hassels..

I don't think I understand the intent of your OP. Was it your intent to show the problem with "prosperity teaching" or was it to praise the Lord for His supply in time of need? I don't think that there's much doubt among us all that the Lord is an abundant supply of comfort and aid in our times of trial.

What I got out of the OP was those who teach prosperity as an end to itself. Kind of like the WoFer's where "prosperity" is ultimately bound up in earthly riches.

Biblical prosperity is defined as "full provision." Whatever plan God has for our lives, there will always be a full provision in area of our lives in order to see the plan to fruition. It doesn't mean having Millions of $$, but God's full proviion in every facet of our lives.

[Guest HIS girl]

God causes His people to prosper in a multitude of ways, sometimes financially, sometimes in their health, but most of the time in their spirit. Regardless of the means by which God's people prosper, it has nothing to do with their "level of faith" or their ability to "speak prosperity" into their lives.

Hey O, I agree with you there..AND we will NOT go down the road of "The Secret".....!!

BUT.....

Too many Believers do NOT believe we can have it ALL..We may not have it all at once - as I have experienced in my own life - but we can have it all. Sometimes we DO have it, yet are so full of "stuff' going on that we miss it....never enjoy it.

[Guest HIS girl]

Hmmm....I wonder if Lazarus outside the rich mans house was into prosperity teaching...and yet somehow he managed to lay treasure up for himself in eternity!

I am not talking about material prosperity only Botz...

God has given me everything I need materially and you know what? I'm not rich and most of what I have is NOT new.

But I am in want for nothing materialistically.

Thats good His girl, and I'm glad you have been blessed in many ways, through good and hard times.

I think as stacey c pointed out...mention the word 'prosperity' and for many people it is a red rag to a bull, and generally with good cause because of the unbiblical slant that many preachers/teachers etc have promulgated, especially in the guise of reaping and sowing into the kingdom...but we aren't going down that route, so I will quietly cease....but if we do go down that route, I will clamber back on the cart.

In Messiah. Botz

Exactly....the prosperity principle is enough to make grown men run in the opposite direction........

Yeah you better keep that cart close by.....

[Guest HIS girl]

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly."

Abundantly: Strongs - perissos(per-is-soss)

Superabundance, excessive, overflowing, surplus, over and above, more than enough, profuse, extroadinary, above the ordinary, more than sufficient.

It seems your implication is that Jesus' statement implies that His purpose in incarnation was to provide superabundantly for the lives, the livelihoods, of the believers. But actually you are focussing on the wrong word in the Greek.

The word to be focused on should be "life." In the Greek there are at least three words which are rendered "life" in the translation. One word is "Bios" which describes the natural life, the things which support our life and living on this earth. The second is "Psuche" which describes the soul, the inner part of man with the mind, emotion, and will as its components. The third word for "life" in the Greek is "zoe," which is the eternal and uncreated life of God. For example, when Jesus said, "I am the Way, the truth and the life" the word He used was "zoe."

Zoe is the same word used here in John 10:10. Jesus, in His incarnation, came that we, His believers, may have the eternal life of God, and that we would have it "superabundantly."

So you think my analysis of His prosperity toward us (Believers) is out of kilter?

Another thing Ovedya...

Are the Saints that came before us many moons ago, less informed with the Bible because they didn't have infomative Bible books at their disposal? We have the beauty of "double checking", analysing...whereas it was not the case for them.

You correct me in my reading of words concerning the verses, yet I gaurantee those past Saints would have read them as I have.

Who's right, who's wrong or are we all right?

Can you guarantee that those past saints would have interpreted the Lord's speaking the same way that you did?

How can you guarantee that?

Using simple logic with the language it is obvious that the Lord was not talking about the natural life. Since those that were listening to Him speak were alive, they had breath, they were able to think, feel and move; and they had a living, they had places to eat, sleep, etc.; how could the Lor dhave been talking about either the soul or the soul-life?

The manner in which the Lord presented Himself in this passage, first as the door (v. 7), and then showing that He is actually the Way through the door (v. 11, 12-16), clearly reveals that He is not talking about anything earthly such as prosperity of the soul or of the natural life.

I wasn't talking about the 12 Disciples or those who were alive and heard Him speak in the flesh.

I was talking about the saints(Believers) who came after Jesus's death, only had the Holy Bible and the Holy Spirit to learn from..waaay before any informative Bible book that is now availabe for our consumption...

I'm sure with Jesus teaching in the flesh and people rubbing shoulders with Him, the effect of His teaching would be remarkably different than it is hearing things from a Church seat today...obviously if the Pastor is open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in his sermons well that's another matter..but there would have surely been a dramatic difference in having the Master teach the Word from His own mouth......Wow..

[Guest HIS girl]

Biblical prosperity is defined as "full provision." Whatever plan God has for our lives, there will always be a full provision in area of our lives in order to see the plan to fruition. It doesn't mean having Millions of $$, but God's full proviion in every facet of our lives.

I absolutely agree with this!!

[EricH]

is that we are being taught in the Church that prosperity is an end in itself.

This is probably too much of a generalization. I am not a properity theologian, but I have listened to some of them. None of the ones I have listened to indicate propertiy is an end in itself. They indicate is is part of the larger blessing offered by God as a result of salvation.

[stacey c]

God has not disapponted me so far in the 7 years I've been walking with Him..it hasn't been a road paved in constant gold but the road has had brilliant diamond moments ...THOSE moments are worth more than a year of hassels..

I don't think I understand the intent of your OP. Was it your intent to show the problem with "prosperity teaching" or was it to praise the Lord for His supply in time of need? I don't think that there's much doubt among us all that the Lord is an abundant supply of comfort and aid in our times of trial.

What I got out of the OP was those who teach prosperity as an end to itself. Kind of like the WoFer's where "prosperity" is ultimately bound up in earthly riches.

Biblical prosperity is defined as "full provision." Whatever plan God has for our lives, there will always be a full provision in area of our lives in order to see the plan to fruition. It doesn't mean having Millions of $$, but God's full proviion in every facet of our lives.

Why is the term WOFer's catoragized in one lump sum? I've been WOF for many many years, and some of the statements referenced to them and what they teach, is nothing I had learned over all these years.

I was taught the full provision of God. His provision in my life comes from my committed life to Him and my faith that He shall supply ALL my needs, be it financial, physical, health, spiritual, family, relationships, joy peace, love, ect.... God has not called all of us to be millionaires, but He does want us to walk in victory in every area of our lives, even in our trials we can walk in victory with keeping our faith in Him and knowing my God is more than enough.