Did Jesus die for everyone?

[OneLight]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

[larryt]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

[OneLight]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

[larryt]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel? I think that is plain enough. So what do you think?

LT

[OneLight]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel? I think that is plain enough. So what do you think?

LT

Yes, it is just as plain as my answer that you quoted. Read it and you will see where I stand.

[EricH]

I answered other. It depends in what sense you are asking the question. Jesus died for all in the se3nse that the invitation is universal. practically is death is effectual only to those who appropriate it (the elect).

[larryt]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel? I think that is plain enough. So what do you think?

LT

Yes, it is just as plain as my answer that you quoted. Read it and you will see where I stand.

If you are referring to Rom. 2:12-16 I do not believe that it is saying that they are saved. vs 12 says:

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Those that do not have the law will PERISH, and those that know the law will be judged by it. Nothing here to indicate anyone is saved apart from hearing the gospel.

So again I ask you a direct question: Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel?

LT

[larryt]

I answered other. It depends in what sense you are asking the question. Jesus died for all in the se3nse that the invitation is universal. practically is death is effectual only to those who appropriate it (the elect).

Thank you for your response.

LT

[OneLight]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel? I think that is plain enough. So what do you think?

LT

Yes, it is just as plain as my answer that you quoted. Read it and you will see where I stand.

If you are referring to Rom. 2:12-16 I do not believe that it is saying that they are saved. vs 12 says:

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Those that do not have the law will PERISH, and those that know the law will be judged by it. Nothing here to indicate anyone is saved apart from hearing the gospel.

So again I ask you a direct question: Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel?

LT

Sorry, should of been more specific ... here is what I want ed you to read.

"This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart."

God has shown Himself to the world through His creation. I believe those who have never heard the word God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but realize that He exists and follows what is in their heart, if they give their heart to God, will be judged according to their heart, as scripture stated: " for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."

The Holy Spirit has been sent to convict the world of sin and I believe this is extended to those whom God knew had no direct knowledge of Him through any form of teachings that He passed down through the ages through men.

In the end, we do not know for sure, one way or another, who are saved or not. That would be like saying we know the hearts of men and only God know that.

[larryt]

I believe that Romans 2:12-16 covers that question.

Exactly!

Got judges the hearts of those who had not heard the word, for by nature, they knew God for God is in all creation as found in Romans 1:20 ...

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So is Rom. 2:12-16 saying that they are saved even though they never heard the Gospel?

LT

Let's look at what it says ...

Romans 2:12-16 (New King James Version)

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

I have underlined the words that tell us that what is written in their hearts, and their conscience bearing witness, is what God looks at when one does not know, nor have ever heard, His words or Him. God does speak into the lives of those who have not heard His word. The Holy Spirit does convict the world of sin, not limiting Himself to only those who have heard the word.

The following is my personal belief ...

This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart.

Do you believe that someone can be saved without hearing the Gospel? (discounting infants, that is another subject altogether).

LT

Are you asking about those whom I spoke of, like a tribe in South America at the time of Jesus who never heard?

Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel? I think that is plain enough. So what do you think?

LT

Yes, it is just as plain as my answer that you quoted. Read it and you will see where I stand.

If you are referring to Rom. 2:12-16 I do not believe that it is saying that they are saved. vs 12 says:

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Those that do not have the law will PERISH, and those that know the law will be judged by it. Nothing here to indicate anyone is saved apart from hearing the gospel.

So again I ask you a direct question: Can anyone be saved apart from hearing the Gospel?

LT

Sorry, should of been more specific ... here is what I want ed you to read.

"This would include those in a remote village in South America at the time of Jesus. Through His creation, they knew God, even though they did not know His name or His words, they knew Him. If a person is in tune to the Holy Spirit and obeys Him, they will still be doing Gods will, for the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone astray but only instruct from what the Father tells Him. Because of this, their law that is written in their heart will be like that of one who has read and studied His word, without understanding why. In the hearts of these people, God has worked and has changed them. God will judge these by what is in their heart."

God has shown Himself to the world through His creation. I believe those who have never heard the word God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but realize that He exists and follows what is in their heart, if they give their heart to God, will be judged according to their heart, as scripture stated: " for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."

The Holy Spirit has been sent to convict the world of sin and I believe this is extended to those whom God knew had no direct knowledge of Him through any form of teachings that He passed down through the ages through men.

In the end, we do not know for sure, one way or another, who are saved or not. That would be like saying we know the hearts of men and only God know that.

It appears that you are saying that people can be saved apart from hearing the Gospel. Is this true.

LT