How Does The Holy Spirit Intercedes?

[poorinspirit]

And the most disturbing thing of all is that they are not seeking the gift from Jesus, but from the Spirit as if He is the Mediator.

1 Cor. 12:4-11 (KJV)

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Sounds like Paul is saying the Spirit gives these gifts to me. How do you read "by the Spirit"?

Same way I read when the Spirit speaketh. The words the Holy Spirit speaketh are not his own.

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Everything the Spirit gives to us is from Jesus as in gifts and fruits.

John 16:14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Philippians 1:11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Tell me why God would have people seek tongues in the same format of the world?

Isaiah 8:19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Well, considering I reject your claim that the Holy Spirit is not God, that does leave us at an impass.

That is not what I had claimed. The problem here is that you are preaching another spirit to receive as if you are not filled by the Holy Spirit by faith for coming to and believing in Jesus. If Jesus is the Door by Whom we are to enter into that New Covenant, then there can be no door to the Holy Spirit aftewards otherwise there is no rest in Jesus as promised for coming to Him to never hunger nor thirst anymore.

2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I see again you are confusing your fight with whatever church(es) you experienced and how the Spirit manifest Himself (1 Cor. 12:7).

The fact that the manifestations of the gifts were not given for believers to glory in the manifestations of the gifts since the manifestations of teh gifts were gievn to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4: 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Again -

1 Cor. 14

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God...

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself...

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

You keep denying what is written about what tongues is for. Why is that?

You keep skipping verses to exalt tongues again as if it is the end all and be all of all gifts AND to imply that it is oaky to be done in an improper manner by ignoring the other verses around it.

Likewise, in Acts 2 and 11, there is no indication that only the men in the assemblies spoke in tongues.

There are no women speaking in tongues. Only reference were women prophesying in the mission fields. That is the only reference.

But I realize that I should end this here.

For I am a woman, and by your argument you consider me to be sinning for speaking to you amidst the assembly of believers.

I do not consider a forum an assembly since it is obvious we are not all likeminded in Christ to have fellowship. It is a mission field. A crossroad. A happenstance meeting, but hardly an assembly. Is it not written for women to go home and ask the husband the meaning of whatever had occured in the assembly? Are you not at home?

Anyway, when one is involved in something all their lives, it would be hard for that individual to take a step back and examine themselves in the faith when they had accepted without question what they believed to be of God all their lives.

So bottomline is this... go to Jesus in prayer and ask for discernment. Ask Him if you are overlooking something. Ask Him if the validity of tongues are necessary in light of having the written word today. What can be given supernaturally by the gift of tongues that cannot be read now? If the manifestation of the gifts are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Him, then what need for outward signs and open miracles for this purpose when the report is no longer necessary when the Temple is no longer standing in Jerusalem where God's Presence and open miracles was known to dwell so as to bear witness that the God of the Old Covenant is behind this New Covenant and the Old is no more?

1 Corinthians 14:25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

[poorinspirit]

A couple of questions poorinspirit...

1. Do you believe the Holy spirit is fully God?

2. Or do you believe He is less than God and Jesus?

#1. Yes.

#2. I believe the role of the Holy Ghost is to dwell in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. From that moment on, the indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to testify by the scriptures and to glorify Jesus Christ. He will not speak of Himself so why are the believers? If the Holy Spirit is enabling us to testify of Jesus and thereby glorify the Son and thereby the Father, then how can the Holy Spirit lead us to speak of himself to glorify himself? He would not. Thus to honour the Father is to honour the Son. When we are not honouring the Son, we are not honouring the Father. In other words, the Holy Spirit is leading us not to honour the Holy Spirit, but the Son and thereby the Father.

Through out your whole post you seem to down play the importance of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life as though seeking after Him is the same as witchcraft and familiar spirits.

You cannot seek after the Holy Spirit if He is already in you. Read how the world receives other spirits.

John 14: 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So how can the Holy Spirit be not in the believers? Why should we receive the Holy Spirit by seeing as the world does when they seek after other spirits?

If the Holy Spirit in you is seeking to lead you to seek the face of the Bridegroom, then heed Him. Don't listen to those that point to the Holy Spirit cause He is not pointing to Himself.

There are quite a few scriptures where Jesus Himself has told us the importance of seeking out the things of the Spirit.

John 14:16 " And I will pray the Father, and he shall send you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

17 "even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot recieve, because it seeth him not; neither knoweth him; but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you."

v. 26 " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father shall send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 15; 26 " But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

John 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the comforter willnot come unto you; But if I depart, I will send him unto you."

v> 13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and shall shew you things to come."

Those verse do not address the things sought after the Spirit. Those verse simply define the role of the Spirit.

Acts 1:5 " For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

That is talking about the promise from Jesus, not from the Spirit. Jesus baptizes by the Holy Ghost.

v.8 " But ye shall recieve power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you, and ye shall be witneses both in Jerusalem, and in all of Judea, and in Sameria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth."

Acts 2 :4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Promises fulfilled for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ.

Jude v. 20 "But ye, beloved, building up up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost."

Big difference those two letter words can make; "in" is not the same thing as "to" or "for". People that seek after the Holy Ghost are praying out of spirit, aren't they?

No where does it say in the Bible, that seeking the Holy Ghost is wrong or leading us away from Jesus, quite contrary the scriptures tell us He shall lead us to Him.

If you were a preacher in a church and you had been testifying and glorifying Jesus Christ, what would you do if the congregation began putting the spotlight on you and glorifying you with Jesus? Would you wonder if they are listening to you at all?

Look at the witness factor so you would know what a false witness is.

John 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

If anyone tried to bear testimony of themselves....

John 7:18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

And yet for this famous prophesied voice in the wilderness, John said this:

John 3: 28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease.

And since the Holy Spirit is God, He will be the true Witness of Jesus Christ. Notice how He will decrease so that Christ will increase.

John 16: 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Thus as we are led by the Spirit within us...

John 15:26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

1 Corinthians 2: 2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Because of this simple truth in worship.

Philippians 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How can that be done if the Holy Spirit's name is right up there with Jesus' name? That would suggest a failure on the part of the Holy Spirit, but He would never fail for He is God. Thus the blame lies with the assumption from man that because the Holy Spirit is God, He is to be worshipped in the spotlight as well, but the scriptures says no for He seeks to glorify the Son. Shall we be led by the Spirit to do the same or shall we broaden the Way given in approaching God the Father in worship and worship Him out of spirit and apart from the truth?

[AnotherTraveler]

This stuff makes my head hurt.

Why is it so important to assign a role to the Holy Spirit? How is this actually useful?

[poorinspirit]

I pray I'll be forgiven by everyone for replying in such a lengthy manner to what I believe about baptism in the Holy Spirit or the evidence of speaking in tongues. I wish to present my beliefs in three replies. The first two will be extracts from a website known as Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The third reply will be my version of a conclusion of the matter and a little more why I believe that speaking in tongues is still valid for the church today.

While I was attempting to put together my thoughts and compiling scripture in defense for what I believe, I came across this website that spoke almost 100% of what I wanted to say. I wouldn't blame anyone for not finishing reading what I post here in reply because it is so long.

Extracted from:

CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY www.carm.org

What is baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit (1) is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit upon and/or within a believer usually sometime after the person is saved. There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not. Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit." In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation. Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Generally speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We need to first know that all Christians receive the Spirit upon their conversion and in this sense all Christians have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This means that they are saved and that they have all they need at that time to be able to live godly and holy lives. 1 Cor. 12:13 says, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."

However, there are many Christians who claim to have had this "secondary" experience of the Spirit. (2) They say that it has brought great blessing and comfort to them. Furthermore, they say that the results of the experience is a renewed dedication and appreciation for God, a stronger desire to read the Bible, a stronger desire to fellowship with Christians, and a deeper sense of worship of God. Millions of Christians who claim to have had this experience forces us to deal with the issue. Is it real or not? Let's look at the Scripture to find out.

The term "baptize with the Holy Spirit (1)" occurs several times in scripture:

[poorinspirit]

My second reply. Again, the paragraphs below speak almost 100% of what I believe about speaking in tongues. These paragraphs were also extracted from the website Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

What is speaking in tongues?

Speaking in tongues is the New Testament phenomena where a person or persons speaks in a language that is unknown to him. This language is either the language of angels or other earthly languages (1 Cor. 13:1). It occurred in Acts 2 at Pentecost and also in the Corinthian church as is described in 1 Corinthians 14. This New Testament gift was given by the Holy Spirit to the Christian church and is for the purpose of the edification of the Body of Christ as well as for glorifying the Lord.

There seems to be three divisions in the use of tongues: First, a private prayer language that is not interpreted; second, a language that is interpreted - this defines proper usage in the Christian congregation; and third, missionary context -- that is, it appears in the context of evangelism where people (in the New Testament) are presenting the gospel.

Today there is much debate as to the validity of speaking in tongues, especially since there is so much apart misuse of it in Christian circles. Nevertheless, some Christian churches teach that all the charismatic gifts (speaking in tongues, word of knowledge, prophecy, etc.) have ceased with the completion of the New Testament (1 Cor. 13:8-12). Others maintain that the charismatic gifts are still for the church today (1 Cor. 1:7). It is not the purpose of this paper to take sides on this issue since it is so divisive and believing or not believing in them does not affect one's salvation. Nevertheless, there are good arguments on both sides and the Christian church needs to be as gracious as possible to those with opposing views on this debatable issue.

But there is an important point worth making here. Some churches erringly maintain that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved. This is a grave mistake since not all people speak in tongues because not all people are gifted by the Holy Spirit this way. 1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

So, the gifts of the Spirit are varied and they are for the edification of the body of Christ. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation and it is not a prerequisite proof of Baptism in the Holy Spirit. We must remember the words of Paul in 1 Cor. 13:1-2,13 [/b]"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing....13 But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

Thanks for sharing this, but still in disagreement.

Tongues cannot be private prayer language that cannot be interpreted. It is never to operate as a stand alone gift without interpretation since all the manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit are to profit the body withal as 1 Corinthians 12th chapter would outline. All the verses in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter are not to be taken out of context to support the idea that there was a time set aside for prayer language because the whole chapter in context debunks that notion because when someone comes in to the assembly all speaking in tongues, they would think them mad. If there is no one to interpret after two or three speak in tongues, then they are to be silent. This does not mean.. if no intepretation, then it is private prayer language time.

The core of the "debate" is not only the misuse of tongues, but how they got it. As much as everyone points to Acts, there were believers that did not even know about tongues and they just got it. Some did not know about the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they heard about Jesus and received the promise by believing in Jesus as Acts 10 testifies of the exact words spoken to them. So all this preparation and seeking after the Holy Spirit IS the rudiment found in the world in how they seek after other spirits and Why God the Faher gave only one Way to approach Him and that is through the Son for by the Son we have access to the Father and by the Son we have received the promise of the Spirit so we can rest in Jesus when we came to Him. That is the simplicity of the Gospel and to avoid false prophets and false spirits, we strive to enter through the straight gate by narrowing the Way to the Son.

[Guest]

Anyway, when one is involved in something all their lives, it would be hard for that individual to take a step back and examine themselves in the faith when they had accepted without question what they believed to be of God all their lives.

Yes Indeed!

There Is A Long History To This Debate

And, The Core Of This Debate Is The Power Of God Through The Holy Ghost And God Still Wins

(7) Definitely Endued with Power from on High

The seventh thing that was the secret of why God used D. L. Moody was that he had a very definite endowment with power from on High, a very clear and definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Moody knew he had "the baptism with the Holy Ghost"; he had no doubt about it. In his early days he was a great hustler; he had a tremendous desire to do something, but he had no real power. He worked very largely in the energy of the flesh.

But there were two humble Free Methodist women who used to come over to his meetings in the Y.M.C.A. One was "Auntie Cook" and the other, Mrs. Snow. (I think her name was not Snow at that time.) These two women would come to Mr. Moody at the close of his meetings and say: "We are praying for you." Finally, Mr. Moody became somewhat nettled and said to them one night: "Why are you praying for me? Why don't you pray for the unsaved?" They replied: "We are praying that you may get the power." Mr. Moody did not know what that meant, but he got to thinking about it, and then went to these women and said: "I wish you would tell me what you mean"; and they told him about the definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Then he asked that he might pray with them and not they merely pray for him.

Auntie Cook once told me of the intense fervor with which Mr. Moody prayed on that occasion. She told me in words that I scarcely dare repeat, though I have never forgotten them. And he not only prayed with them, but he also prayed alone.

Not long after, one day on his way to England, he was walking up Wall Street in New York; (Mr. Moody very seldom told this and I almost hesitate to tell it) and in the midst of the bustle and hurry of that city his prayer was answered; the power of God fell upon him as he walked up the street and he had to hurry off to the house of a friend and ask that he might have a room by himself, and in that room he stayed alone for hours; and the Holy Ghost came upon him, filling his soul with such joy that at last he had to ask God to withhold His hand, lest he die on the spot from very joy. He went out from that place with the power of the Holy Ghost upon him, and when he got to London (partly through the prayers of a bedridden saint in Mr. Lessey's church), the power of God wrought through him mightily in North London, and hundreds were added to the churches; and that was what led to his being invited over to the wonderful campaign that followed in later years.

http://www.freewebs.com/ratorrey/Why%20God...%20Moody%20.htm

A Little More About Brother Torrey

A Dear Brother Introduced Me To "The Presence & Work Of The HOLY Spirit" By R.A. Torrey.

Torrey's Bible Study Was A Blessing Indeed And Snuffed Out Any Idea That God Has Ceased From His Mighty Works Today,

Including The Hope Of The Resurrection Yet To Come

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:11

You Can Still Order It (As I Did For Another Brother) From The Worthy Book Store.

[poorinspirit]

My third, and I'm sure you hope, my final reply.

Originally, I was saved while in the Marine Corps as a young man of 22 years of age. My conversion was phenomenal. I never believed there could be any more for me than what I received initially. I was saved in a Baptist church. I remember how somber our gathering together was and I never seen a need for anything more. After I transferred to a different duty station, a Navy recruiter invited me to his church. It was nondenominational and charasmatic. To be honest, I thought the whole fist time experience there was quite strange. I was VERY skeptical of what I witnessed. People weren't carrying on and bouncing off of walls, running around or rolling on the floor but there were some speaking in tongues and some who were supposedly interpreting. I say supposedly because I had no idea of what was going on. I was somewhat afraid of this strange scene going on. On the long drive home, I dismissed the whole speaking in tongues thing and definitely decided it wasn't for me. I was strangely drawn to the congregation's manner of worship though. The singing, hands raised, eyes closed and the seemingly legitimate love and emotion flowing out of people caused me to want to come back and investigate further but I was determined that the speaking in tongues was NOT for me.

Understand, I am extremely skeptical by nature. I really have to be convinced about most things and it takes me quite some time before I accept something as truth or not. I kept going to this new church but very wary of the speaking in tongues experience. For a long time I had an attitude of distrust and I feared the whole thing. Eventually, I secretly even started judging the people who operated in this arena but a certain conviction started taking hold of me occupying my thoughts continually about how I may be treading on dangerous ground. The scriptures telling of some peoples' reaction to Jesus casting out the demons and his response to them started causing me worry about what I was feeling toward the people in the congregation who spoke in tongues.

Matthew 12:22-30

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and[e] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said,

[poorinspirit]

This stuff makes my head hurt.

Why is it so important to assign a role to the Holy Spirit? How is this actually useful?

So believers can discern between false spirits and the real Holy Spirit. False spirits seek the worship place and to share in the glory if not steal the spotlight in worship. The Holy Spirit in us would never do that as we are led to testify by the Spirit to glorify the Son and thereby the Father.

[poorinspirit]

Anyway, when one is involved in something all their lives, it would be hard for that individual to take a step back and examine themselves in the faith when they had accepted without question what they believed to be of God all their lives.

Yes Indeed!

There Is A Long History To This Debate

And, The Core Of This Debate Is The Power Of God Through The Holy Ghost And God Still Wins

(7) Definitely Endued with Power from on High

The seventh thing that was the secret of why God used D. L. Moody was that he had a very definite endowment with power from on High, a very clear and definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Moody knew he had "the baptism with the Holy Ghost"; he had no doubt about it. In his early days he was a great hustler; he had a tremendous desire to do something, but he had no real power. He worked very largely in the energy of the flesh.

But there were two humble Free Methodist women who used to come over to his meetings in the Y.M.C.A. One was "Auntie Cook" and the other, Mrs. Snow. (I think her name was not Snow at that time.) These two women would come to Mr. Moody at the close of his meetings and say: "We are praying for you." Finally, Mr. Moody became somewhat nettled and said to them one night: "Why are you praying for me? Why don't you pray for the unsaved?" They replied: "We are praying that you may get the power." Mr. Moody did not know what that meant, but he got to thinking about it, and then went to these women and said: "I wish you would tell me what you mean"; and they told him about the definite baptism with the Holy Ghost. Then he asked that he might pray with them and not they merely pray for him.

Auntie Cook once told me of the intense fervor with which Mr. Moody prayed on that occasion. She told me in words that I scarcely dare repeat, though I have never forgotten them. And he not only prayed with them, but he also prayed alone.

Not long after, one day on his way to England, he was walking up Wall Street in New York; (Mr. Moody very seldom told this and I almost hesitate to tell it) and in the midst of the bustle and hurry of that city his prayer was answered; the power of God fell upon him as he walked up the street and he had to hurry off to the house of a friend and ask that he might have a room by himself, and in that room he stayed alone for hours; and the Holy Ghost came upon him, filling his soul with such joy that at last he had to ask God to withhold His hand, lest he die on the spot from very joy. He went out from that place with the power of the Holy Ghost upon him, and when he got to London (partly through the prayers of a bedridden saint in Mr. Lessey's church), the power of God wrought through him mightily in North London, and hundreds were added to the churches; and that was what led to his being invited over to the wonderful campaign that followed in later years.

http://www.freewebs.com/ratorrey/Why%20God...%20Moody%20.htm

A Little More About Brother Torrey

A Dear Brother Introduced Me To "The Presence & Work Of The HOLY Spirit" By R.A. Torrey.

Torrey's Bible Study Was A Blessing Indeed And Snuffed Out Any Idea That God Has Ceased From His Mighty Works Today,

Including The Hope Of The Resurrection Yet To Come

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:11

You Can Still Order It (As I Did For Another Brother) From The Worthy Book Store.

Thanks for the recemmendation, but I shall pass.

Here are some questions. What happens when a voodoo witch doctor gets saved? Let's say he visits the USA and get introduced to a charismatic or pentecostal church. He opens himself up to receive another baotism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues. Then he goes back with it. When he gets back, how can any that knew him believe that he has not repented of his former sinful lifestyle or has not backslidden into his old ways again if the tongues do not come with interpretation?

This is why I do not believe God would have tongues to be gibberish. We are to stand apart from the world and how can we do that of God gives tongues that are gibberish? He wouldn't. And He wuldn't have Bibical tongues given by any other Way excpet through Jesus Christ... not by seeking after the Spirit. You cannot seek after Someone when He is already in you. Therefore we go before the throne of grace, but no one has discerned why only tongues is sought by seeking this other baptism of the Holy Spirit when Paul exhorted porphesy over tongues in the first place as led by the Spirit to say so.

You have posted the verses from Ephesians 4 of the one hope of our calling and the one baptism. When do we apply that to draw the line in the sand that there is no other one? When do we test the spirits in seeing what it is leading us to do... broaden the way in the worship place.

I can only hope that God shall cause the increase for as it is, those that hear as the world hears, will not hear me. I shall not follow a stranger's voice but flee from it and follow His voice. I thank Jesus for being My Good Shepherd. I trust Him to have me ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Amen.

[AnotherTraveler]

This stuff makes my head hurt.

Why is it so important to assign a role to the Holy Spirit? How is this actually useful?

So believers can discern between false spirits and the real Holy Spirit. False spirits seek the worship place and to share in the glory if not steal the spotlight in worship. The Holy Spirit in us would never do that as we are led to testify by the Spirit to glorify the Son and thereby the Father.

Paul wrote that he spoke in tongues more than you all. Your contention that tongues is only for interpetation would cause whoever was traveling with Paul to interpret more than you all, doesn't ring right, sorry.

You are walking a dangerous line when you suggest that the Holy Spirit in another person is a false spirit because you disagree (correct me if I'm misunderstanding you here) with anyone speaking in tongues without the presence of an accompaining gift.

Anyone glorifying God and acknowledging Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, no matter how goofy they might be in other things (such as snakehandelers), I think we might get in a jam to disclude the grace of God to them, and I am certain that it is dangerous to start calling the Holy Spirit in another a devil, no matter how certain we are of our own doctrinal correctness.