How is it...?

[RebekahDavid]

I guess to you all this means that GOD did not send the evil spirits to do HIS will as it is written in the Bible?

To me this means that you choose to interpret one scripture by ignoring the light of another scripture that shines just as bright.

No kross, it just means that we know the difference between legitimate interpretation principles and the shoddy, unskilled approach you employ.

You see no problem attributing sin to God, and that flaw in your understanding of God's sovereignty contaminates the rest of your theology and how you read the Bible.

God did not literally send the lying spirit. It is a case of God simply giving Ahab over to his wickedness. Ahab wanted to be led by false prophets and God simply gave Ahab his wish to his own destruction. When you examine the passage in the light of how God is revealed throughout the entire Bible, it is consistent with His methodology. It is no different than God giving the irretrievably wicked over to their own hardness of heart and stubborn impenitence.

Yes!

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Hebrews 3:15

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear Brother There Are Many Men Who Try To Replace The Whole Volume Of The Book

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hebrews 10:7

With Puny Human Understanding Of This Wonderful Thing

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah 53

God Did When He Came To Earth

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6

To Save Our Wretched Souls

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

>>>>>()<<<<<

The Bible Is Full Of Men Who Would Rather Eat Their Fill Of Sin

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 8:15

Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 8:19

And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Exodus 8:32

Than Meekly Take God At His Word

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Trusting In His Son

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

>>>>>()<<<<<<

Even Mixed With With A Dab Or Two Of Holy Scripture The Philosophies Of Men Will Never Replace The Blood Of Jesus

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jude 1:24

Nor Successfully Impute Evil To The Character Of God

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 John 1:5

For The Plan Fact Is All Men Deserve Death

For the wages of sin is death;

Romans 6:23(a)

But God Offers Life To Whosoever

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23(b)

Glorious Life To All

And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:14-15

Who Will Call

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:21

Who Will

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:16-17

Come

well said Joe

[AnotherTraveler]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

[legoman]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God".

Try looking at it from this perspective:

God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is.

Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin.

Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself.

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21).

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it:

- he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it)

- he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve

- in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago

God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13).

Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side.

Cheers,

Legoman

Edited January 2, 2009 by legoman

[AnotherTraveler]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God".

Try looking at it from this perspective:

God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is.

Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin.

Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself.

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21).

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it:

- he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it)

- he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve

- in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago

God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13).

Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side.

Cheers,

Legoman

I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said.

You wrote...

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God.

God sees the end and the beginning, He knows all things, all that will ever be, however, He can't be charged with a fault of any kind, He is perfect, and all that He says or does is right.

[legoman]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God".

Try looking at it from this perspective:

God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is.

Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin.

Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself.

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21).

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it:

- he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it)

- he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve

- in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago

God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13).

Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side.

Cheers,

Legoman

I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said.

You wrote...

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God.

OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin.

With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone.

But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21).

God sees the end and the beginning, He knows all things, all that will ever be, however, He can't be charged with a fault of any kind, He is perfect, and all that He says or does is right.

God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault.

Perhaps here is the misconception:

If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality.

Cheers,

Legoman

[larryt]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God".

Try looking at it from this perspective:

God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is.

Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin.

Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself.

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21).

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it:

- he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it)

- he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve

- in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago

God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13).

Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side.

Cheers,

Legoman

I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said.

You wrote...

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God.

OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin.

With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone.

But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21).

God sees the end and the beginning, He knows all things, all that will ever be, however, He can't be charged with a fault of any kind, He is perfect, and all that He says or does is right.

God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault.

Perhaps here is the misconception:

If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality.

Cheers,

Legoman

Keep in mind that even the angels are watching what is happening in this created world. It is all designed to demonstrate the Glory of God. No one can doubt that there is evil in this world. God created this world and allowed evil to enter. And it didn't catch God by surprise. I believe He even planned for its entrance. God hates sin and as was put so bluntly, He hates what man does to man throughout history. The rapes, murders, human sacrifices. None of it is condoned. On the other hand it is in the world and God did make the world.(don't draw wrong conclusions from what I just said) Nothing happens that is not under God's complete control. All the rapes, murders, wars, etc. will only go as far as God allows them, and He will allow them as far as it pleases Him.

LT

[AnotherTraveler]

I got heated and over wrote on my last post, so I deleted it. I do not like it when it seams to me that someone is speaking ill of God, it makes my very upset. Sorry.

God cannot sin. If you want to charge others with sin, charge humans, but to place a blot on your maker is the height of ignorance.

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God".

Try looking at it from this perspective:

God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this.

God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is.

Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin.

Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself.

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21).

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it:

- he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it)

- he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve

- in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago

God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13).

Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side.

Cheers,

Legoman

I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said.

You wrote...

Does God not send good & evil?:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God.

OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin.

With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone.

But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21).

God sees the end and the beginning, He knows all things, all that will ever be, however, He can't be charged with a fault of any kind, He is perfect, and all that He says or does is right.

God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11).

Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault.

Perhaps here is the misconception:

If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality.

Cheers,

Legoman

I didn't mean to imply that you charged God with sin, and in fact I did read your entire post, and I did indeed only respond to a part of it, just as you only responded to parts of mine, I don't see a problem there?

As to God being perfect and without fault, you agree with me 100%. I don't see a problem there.

As to Job, he did not charge God with sin nor speak foolishly with his lips. I don't see a problem there.

In that all things were made by Him, obviously the tree was made by Him, as was Adam and Eve. Everything that exists was made by Him.

I am not implying that you anything, you are not the subject of this thread, and it is not my intention to make you the subject of this thread. If you read some of the posts in this thread, you might get the opinion that God was being charged with a fault, certainly that was what troubled me (not that I read anything by you that charged Him with a fault), and though I responded heatedly initially, I withdrew it, but I still maintain that charging God with a fault is the height of foolishness.

[Guest]

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Oh No!

Even "The Devil Made Me Do It"

Is A Better Lie Than "See God Made Me So Bad! See, See"

>>>>>()<<<<<

The Book Of Beginnings

It WAS Good

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 1:31

And Along Came That Lier

..... And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said.....

Genesis 3:1

Who Was Himself Created Perfect

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:15

And He Tempted Mom But Pop Went Along With it

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it......

Genesis 3:17

And So All Mankind Was Born Dead In Sin

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:13

Until The Blood Of The Lamb Of God

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:5

Birthed All Those Who Will

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:7

Believe On His Name

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12

Do You Believe

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Jesus Is LORD

[AnotherTraveler]

BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did!

Oh No!

Even "The Devil Made Me Do It"

Is A Better Lie Than "See God Made Me So Bad! See, See"

>>>>>()<<<<<

The Book Of Beginnings

It WAS Good

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 1:31

And Along Came That Lier

..... And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said.....

Genesis 3:1

Who Was Himself Created Perfect

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:15

And He Tempted Mom But Pop Went Along With it

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it......

Genesis 3:17

And So All Mankind Was Born Dead In Their Sin

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:13

Until The Blood Of The Lamb Of God

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:5

Birthed All Those Who Will

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:7

Believe On His Name

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:12

Do You Believe

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Jesus Is LORD?

I ALWAYS love reading your posts! Thank you for your ministry here, so often you refresh my spirit and encourage me in Jesus!

[Guest shiloh357]

So here is the question.

Why did Paul ask this question;

"You will say to me then, 'Why does HE still find fault? Who has resisted HIS will?

If he was not teaching that GOD is sovereign in it all, how does this question fit in?

Where did I say that God is not Sovereign in it all? I never denied the sovereignty of God at any point, as I pointed out to kross. My point is that God's sovereignty does NOT mean that every act performed by every person is done because God willed it done. That is an extreme and unbiblical view of God's sovereignty that is not upheld by the Bible.

I am just taking it at face value, not trying to read anything into it. and all the rest of the commentaries I have access to say basically the same thing. Even the Geneva Bible footnotes say the same. The absolute sovereignty of God and the doctrine of election were the foundation of the Reformation IMHO. I am in no way attributing sin to God, but on the other hand God designed EVERYTHING, man's fall, war, just everything for His own purpose.

Yes, you are attributing sin to God. If God designed the Fall of man. If God was the architect behind Adam's disobedience, then you are basicaly charging God with causing man to sin. You seem to be a little slow on the uptake, but if God is the reason man fell, then that would make God responsible for sin and that is simply unaccpetable. I am sure those commentators you quote would roll over in their graves if they knew you were trying to attach your sloppy theology handling to their writings.

The absolute sovereignty of God and the doctrine of election were the foundation of the Reformation IMHO.

Justification by faith was the foundation of Reformation, but even if election and God's absolute sovereignty were a part of the foundation of the Reformation, your version on those doctrines is NOT representative of the true doctrines of election and sovereignty.