Ham and Canaan

[LIVN4JC]

Grace to you,

How abnormal and accursed has our own society become that we have to look for some illicit reasoning behind this cursing by extension of Hams Lewd behavior?

What we should be more shocked at is the behavior of the two brothers Shem and Japeth.

I mean if it wasn't such a big deal that Noah lay uncovered in his own tent and that their brother made sport of it. Why walk backwards with a covering refusing to see even a hint of their Fathers Nakedness?

I am reminded of this even as I write;

Ex

[givennewname]

Grace to you,

How abnormal and accursed has our own society become that we have to look for some illicit reasoning behind this cursing by extension of Hams Lewd behavior?

What we should be more shocked at is the behavior of the two brothers Shem and Japeth.

I mean if it wasn't such a big deal that Noah lay uncovered in his own tent and that their brother made sport of it. Why walk backwards with a covering refusing to see even a hint of their Fathers Nakedness?

I am reminded of this even as I write;

Ex

[LIVN4JC]

Blessings and peace to you givennewname. Please tell me where in the bible it states Ham was incestous with his mother.

Sister in Christ

LIVN4JC

[givennewname]

Dear sister,

Greetings in the name of the Lord,

Firstly let me say that i am the first to advocate the literal reading and interpretation of the reading of the word of God and I have advocated that in many of my postings esp when the literal interpretation makes sense, don't apply any other sense or you end up with nonsense. Having said that I recognise that the Bible does use figure of speech, when it says the trees of the mountain clap their hands-i do not intreprete it literally as i do not expect trees to have hands to clap. Same goes when Jesus says he is the door, through wihch one gains access to the Father, i do not expect to see door knobs on Jesus, i recognise that as a figure of speech.

Similarly in this account in Genesis, Moses is the author and he also wrote 4 other books including the book of Leviticus. He does use figure of speech here to write about an matter which demands much modesty as the subject matter is delicate and he uses a figure of speech which may be very obvious to everyone in his time, which may not be so obvoius in our time. To give you an example, when i said i went out last week, got very drunk and slept with a strange woman, that figure of speech is very obvoius to my present audience but may not be readily be understood by poor Moses who lived a few thousand years ago. He may have thought i have a slumber party by being a gracious host to a stranger.

Look at how often he uses the figure of speech "Uncover thy father's nakedness in Letivicus:

The man who lies with his father

[givennewname]

maybe Ham raped his mother while Noah was drunk... in which cases Shem and Japeth covered their mother's nakedness without looking at her shame.

anyway the moral of the story.. incest is a no-no. Reason why Canaan got cursed because the deed went against what God has intended as the natural procreation of humans. just a thought. It explains how Canaan can be a brother to Shem and Japeth and Ham being hia father and also his brother.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

How abnormal and accursed has our own society become that we have to look for some illicit reasoning behind this cursing by extension of Hams Lewd behavior?

What we should be more shocked at is the behavior of the two brothers Shem and Japeth.

I mean if it wasn't such a big deal that Noah lay uncovered in his own tent and that their brother made sport of it. Why walk backwards with a covering refusing to see even a hint of their Fathers Nakedness?

I am reminded of this even as I write;

Ex

[nebula]

Look at how often he uses the figure of speech "Uncover thy father's nakedness in Letivicus:

The man who lies with his father

[irishcowboy]

Gen. 9:24 :"When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,"....

"There are some Scholars who believe that either Ham or Canaan, and more likely Canaan, committed an act of homosexuality on Noah; while there is no concrete proof of such, there is definitely some indication in that direction." The Expositor's Study Bible/KJV pg 19.

Blessings and peace.

HMMMMMM What is the indication and where is it? How can they come to that idea? Don't buy that.

Blessings

Sister in Christ

LIVN4JC

Gen. 9:24 :"When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,"....

what could he have done to Noah that Noah would have known what he had done?.....

other then just being disrespectful, making fun, or bragging about what he has seen, what did he do to Noah ??

i am not trying to say this is one that started the practice of this abomination, but it could have been.....

mike

[LIVN4JC]

maybe Ham raped his mother while Noah was drunk... in which cases Shem and Japeth covered their mother's nakedness without looking at her shame.

anyway the moral of the story.. incest is a no-no. Reason why Canaan got cursed because the deed went against what God has intended as the natural procreation of humans. just a thought. It explains how Canaan can be a brother to Shem and Japeth and Ham being hia father and also his brother.

Blessings and peace to you givennewname.

Then Ham should have been cursed for the rape. If indeed that is what happened. I don't accept it. He doesn't get condemned by his brothers, father, no one???? No punishment??? In my heart I believe this isn't figurative speaking. I may be wrong But there just isn't enough info to convince me sexual immoral acts were done either to Noah or his wife.

In His Loving Hands,

Sister in Christ

Anne

[LIVN4JC]

Gen. 9:24 :"When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,"....

"There are some Scholars who believe that either Ham or Canaan, and more likely Canaan, committed an act of homosexuality on Noah; while there is no concrete proof of such, there is definitely some indication in that direction." The Expositor's Study Bible/KJV pg 19.

Blessings and peace.

HMMMMMM What is the indication and where is it? How can they come to that idea? Don't buy that.

Blessings

Sister in Christ

LIVN4JC

Gen. 9:24 :"When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,"....

what could he have done to Noah that Noah would have known what he had done?.....

other then just being disrespectful, making fun, or bragging about what he has seen, what did he do to Noah ??

i am not trying to say this is one that started the practice of this abomination, but it could have been.....

mike

Blessings and peace brother Mike.

Who is the youngest son? How did he know it was his youngest son when first awaking?

In His Loving Hands,

Sister in Christ

Anne