I have a question.

[Guest HIS girl]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

Sorry kross but your post is confusing -

Those who don't respond to the Holy Spirit are the unchosen?

If the others ARE chosen - why would the Holy Spirit need to woo them? That in itself means that they may not accept and NEED wooing.....

[kross]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

Sorry kross but your post is confusing -

Those who don't respond to the Holy Spirit are the unchosen?

If the others ARE chosen - why would the Holy Spirit need to woo them? That in itself means that they may not accept and NEED wooing.....

I think I see some understanding of why this seems difficult.

There is no "may not accept" no person will come to JESUS unless the FATHER draw them and all that the FATHER has given HIM will come to HIM. No one can come unless it is granted by THE FATHER.

The HOLY SPIRIT only woos those who are The Chosen. It is by the hearing of the word that GOD calls HIS people out of the world. It is the touch of love and the changing of the heart and spirit of a fallen man that makes him want to be saved.

This is the work of GOD that HE has called us to be a part of.

[Massorite]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

So if we were born to be savedor to go to heaven what is the point of excepting Christ? Since we were born to go to heaven without excepting Christ why bother with the process.? The same goes for those who were born to go to hell. Why bother excepting Christ if they are going to hell anyways. Why should theybother to improve on their lives?

God doesn't or will not condemn anybody to the lake of fire. Those who will be condemned to the lake of fire condemned themselves as God has warned us about the conciquences of our choices good or bad.

[Massorite]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

Sorry kross but your post is confusing -

Those who don't respond to the Holy Spirit are the unchosen?

If the others ARE chosen - why would the Holy Spirit need to woo them? That in itself means that they may not accept and NEED wooing.....

One way to settle this is scripture. Where in the bible does it talk about these so called "unchosen"? Kross is not confusing. Read what he writes for wjat it is saying. It really is quit simple.

[kross]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

So if we were born to be savedor to go to heaven what is the point of excepting Christ? Since we were born to go to heaven without excepting Christ why bother with the process.? The same goes for those who were born to go to hell. Why bother excepting Christ if they are going to hell anyways. Why should theybother to improve on their lives?

God doesn't or will not condemn anybody to the lake of fire. Those who will be condemned to the lake of fire condemned themselves as God has warned us about the conciquences of our choices good or bad.

We are adopted in CHRIST. If you do not accept CHRIST, you are not HIS. Thre quirement for someone to pay our sin debt is very real. Nobody who accepts CHRIST is going to hell. Where do you get this stuff?

I did not say condemn them, I said HE would order them to be cast in to hell. You say that HE is going to do this to people HE loves. I do not agree.

[kross]

I don't believe that certain people were created soley for Hell.

I understand that. All I can say is that GOD created us all knowing what and who we are/would be.

Since I believe that the HOLY SPIRIT never fails to save anyone HE tries to save, it therefore falls that HE leaves others to make their own choices. Those others thus do not choose JESUS CHRIST and salvation.

I also do not believe GOD will sit in front of a group of billions of people HE loves and call for them to be cast into a lake of fire where there will be no opportunity to get out if the torture is to great. To me, this is not love.

To me, love is GOD doing everything HE can to save those HE loves from this fate. Since all things are possible for GOD, I know that HE saves all whom HE chooses to save.

I know that HE went to extremes to save me. I read the story of Paul's conversion and I see a GOD who will do what is necessary to save one HE has chosen.

Sorry kross but your post is confusing -

Those who don't respond to the Holy Spirit are the unchosen?

If the others ARE chosen - why would the Holy Spirit need to woo them? That in itself means that they may not accept and NEED wooing.....

One way to settle this is scripture. Where in the bible does it talk about these so called "unchosen"? Kross is not confusing. Read what he writes for wjat it is saying. It really is quit simple.

Well, you have Prov 16:4 where it says all things are made by GID for HIS purposes, even the wicked for the day of destruction. Than you have Romans 9 11-23 where Paul explains that this is the way it is. Then you have 1Peter 2:8 where it states..."which they were also appointed" referring to those who would stumble being disobedient to the word. The interesting thing being that Peter establishes them with "also" indicating that just as we are appointed to obey the word, they are appointed to dis-obey the word.

GOD has always had a chosen people and the rest were allowed to do as they wished. GOD rejected Ishmael as one person and many nations who HE shut off from the promise of Abraham. He did the same thing with Esau, who was a legitimate heir to the promise but GOD, "before either of them was born or had done anything wrong, that election might stand, declared Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated" Romans 9:11

So, in all of scripture and in all of what GOD has done on this planet from the time of Adam to now, GOD has saved a remnant for HIMSELF while letting the rest of mankind die in their sins. Today HE has a remnant that is scattered amoungst all the nations. It is still HE who keeps them for HIMSELF. It is these for whom JESUS died to pay their sin debt.

[arrowfromgod]

G-d is G-d. Love is something you feel, experience and have because G-d is G-d.

Weather or not you go to hell is totally up to you.

what you said is correct god loves us ,,, god made hell for satan who chose to war against god ,,, god sends no one to hell ,,, ppl chose hell over god

[larryt]

'larryt'

It is quite plain that God created man fully knowing that he would fall and many would end up in hell. God is omniscient.

Yes, but that doesn't mean He created them to end up in Hell. That's the end result for them by not reconciling with God through Christ. God created man IN THE BEGINNING to have a relationship with Him.

Man in Adam is bound for eternal damnation not because they don't reconcile, but because they are already dead because of Adam's sin. They are already dead, without hope, blind and naked. If God does not do something to change that condition they will remain that way.

One of the problems as I see it is that many cannot bring themselves to believe that God would just save a chosen few and leave the rest to perish. This goes against the grain in man for man want God to be fair like himself.

I guess the emphasis is on the word chosen. And how the word chosen is applied. Chosen from before Creation to perish for eternity? My beef again - I don't see that as fitting with God of the Bible. As I have said before - that would defeat the point of relationship/reconciliation. Jesus would not have had to die at all if men were chosen pre-creation. I'm going around the mulberry bush here.

Not chosen to damnation. All are already damned. God has this bucket called Earth. In the earth are all these vile creatures call man that are scheduled for destruction. God looks in the bucket and decides that He will be gracious and merciful and decides to pull some of the creatures out of the bucket and change them for His purpose and only because He has decided to do so.

Eternal seperation from God in Hell is the consequence of rejecting the Author of Life. I have no problem with that.

No that is not what I said. It is the consequence of being born in Adam. If you are born you are on your way to hell because Adam sinned.

And might I just add that God is not willy nilly and there is purpose in His doings - not just because - "I feel like it." Even in God's "pleasure" there is purpose. It is His pleasure to give us good things and thus we benefit from it - a purpose.

It is His pleasure to give us (His children) good things and thus we benefit from it - a purpose.

LT

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt'

Man in Adam is bound for eternal damnation not because they don't reconcile, but because they are already dead because of Adam's sin. They are already dead, without hope, blind and naked. If God does not do something to change that condition they will remain that way.

Doesn't that comment fly in the face of being chosen pre-creation? It sure reads that way.

Makes sense - considering God wants to take man back to the ORIGINAL plan - we (ALL) with Him for eternity.

larryt-

Not chosen to damnation. All are already damned.

Once again, not the original plan - if the "chosen" pre-creation theory works - then the Fall of man was designed by God in order for man to be seperate from God.

I reject that outright.

In the earth are all these vile creatures call man that are scheduled for destruction. God looks in the bucket and decides that He will be gracious and merciful and decides to pull some of the creatures out of the bucket and change them for His purpose and only because He has decided to do so.

Some?

Change them for His purpose - what's that purpose and what's the purpose of the unchosen?

HIS girl

Eternal seperation from God in Hell is the consequence of rejecting the Author of Life. I have no problem with that.

larryt

No that is not what I said. It is the consequence of being born in Adam. If you are born you are on your way to hell because Adam sinned.

No it is not the consequence of being born in Adam - simply for the fact that there is restoration available to us - IF we accept through our freewill the Holy Spirits invitation to eternal life through Jesus - God in flesh. Hell is the consequence for those who reject Christ.

It is His pleasure to give us (His children) good things and thus we benefit from it - a purpose.

LT

HIS CHILDREN being ANYONE who accepts Him.

larryt - if YOU are chosen, how do you know for sure? If I'm NOT chosen, how do I know? Do you think God would allow me to think I AM chosen, then to find out later I'm going to Hell?.....Does He take pleasure in THAT?

That's deceitful. That's not God.

[Massorite]

'larryt'

Man in Adam is bound for eternal damnation not because they don't reconcile, but because they are already dead because of Adam's sin. They are already dead, without hope, blind and naked. If God does not do something to change that condition they will remain that way.

Doesn't that comment fly in the face of being chosen pre-creation? It sure reads that way.

Makes sense - considering God wants to take man back to the ORIGINAL plan - we (ALL) with Him for eternity.

larryt-

Not chosen to damnation. All are already damned.

Once again, not the original plan - if the "chosen" pre-creation theory works - then the Fall of man was designed by God in order for man to be seperate from God.

I reject that outright.

In the earth are all these vile creatures call man that are scheduled for destruction. God looks in the bucket and decides that He will be gracious and merciful and decides to pull some of the creatures out of the bucket and change them for His purpose and only because He has decided to do so.

Some?

Change them for His purpose - what's that purpose and what's the purpose of the unchosen?

HIS girl

Eternal seperation from God in Hell is the consequence of rejecting the Author of Life. I have no problem with that.

larryt

No that is not what I said. It is the consequence of being born in Adam. If you are born you are on your way to hell because Adam sinned.

No it is not the consequence of being born in Adam - simply for the fact that there is restoration available to us - IF we accept through our freewill the Holy Spirits invitation to eternal life through Jesus - God in flesh. Hell is the consequence for those who reject Christ.

It is His pleasure to give us (His children) good things and thus we benefit from it - a purpose.

LT

HIS CHILDREN being ANYONE who accepts Him.

larryt - if YOU are chosen, how do you know for sure? If I'm NOT chosen, how do I know? Do you think God would allow me to think I AM chosen, then to find out later I'm going to Hell?.....Does He take pleasure in THAT?

That's deceitful. That's not God.

Some people think that they are saved but are not. That is called self deception. If a person is going to heaven they do not have a question about it. They know.