I have a question.

[Guest HIS girl]

Genesis 1 v 27: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Macquarie Dictionary: A likeness. A mental picture, idea, conception.

God creates man and woman. Already a relationship has formed - man and woman - eventhough seperate but united, they become one - possibly an earthly representation of the Triune. In His image.

We start off with a relationship between God and man.

I believe that is what we were created for. To have a relationship with God/Jesus/The Holy Ghost(One) and each other.

Genesis 2 v7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

This is an intimate moment when the Creator imparts something of Himself into man. Man is now a Spiritual being encased in mortality - the flesh. To breathe the breath of life into us seals us in a sense for eternal existense. This would be plain to say eternal existense with Him. What I've put here so far does not show God setting anyone up for intended seperation from Him.

Genesis 2 v9: And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Already we see the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - not just good but evil too - It was growing in the midst of trees that were good for food and pleasant to look at. Already we see how kind God is and His provision for us. Both for necessities and for pleasure.

God says to Adam - Genesis 2 v 16-17: "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

God already is setting boundaries and let's them know there is a consequence for disobedience - for their actions - choice - if they so decide to go against God and eat of the forbidden tree.

To me that points clearly to freewill.

Genesis 4 v 4-7: Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenace fallen?

"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

God accepts Abels offering, I presume they were of better qaulity with more heart attitude that Cains. Eventhough God does not respect Cains offereing, He gives Cain some advice by doing this He is extending His Hand to Cain and offering Him hope and restoration. - though we see Cain doesn't choose to accept it and kills Abel.

[Guest HIS girl]

Psalm 95 v 7b - 8: Today, if you will hear His voice;

"Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, As in the day of trial in the wilderness,

Would the red text be talking to the chosen only? If so..why? That doesn't make sense -

Psalm 100 v 5: For the LORD is good;

His mercy is everlasting,

And His truth endures to all

generations.

Macquaire Dictionary:

Mercy - Compassionate or kindly. Forbearance shown towards an offender, an enemy - compassionate, pity or benelovence.

Is Psalm 100 v 5 talking only about the "chosen"? If so, why would the verse mention mercy - if mercy means to show forbearance to an offender? If they are the chosen, then they wouldn't be the offender..does it mean to those who are sinners as well and have a Hope in coming to know Him?

More likely.

His truth endures to all generations - everyone has the opportunity to know Him.

You wanted me to explain my views so here is just a little of what I believe. What I have posted in these last two replies larryt are my own ponderings and not from others - all my ponderings stem from the Word and not from a whacky book.

[larryt]

Genesis 1 v 27: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Macquarie Dictionary: A likeness. A mental picture, idea, conception.

God creates man and woman. Already a relationship has formed - man and woman - eventhough seperate but united, they become one - possibly an earthly representation of the Triune. In His image.

We start off with a relationship between God and man.

I believe that is what we were created for. To have a relationship with God/Jesus/The Holy Ghost(One) and each other.

Genesis 2 v7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

This is an intimate moment when the Creator imparts something of Himself into man. Man is now a Spiritual being encased in mortality - the flesh. To breathe the breath of life into us seals us in a sense for eternal existense. This would be plain to say eternal existense with Him. What I've put here so far does not show God setting anyone up for intended seperation from Him.

Genesis 2 v9: And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Already we see the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - not just good but evil too - It was growing in the midst of trees that were good for food and pleasant to look at. Already we see how kind God is and His provision for us. Both for necessities and for pleasure.

God says to Adam - Genesis 2 v 16-17: "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

God already is setting boundaries and let's them know there is a consequence for disobedience - for their actions - choice - if they so decide to go against God and eat of the forbidden tree.

To me that points clearly to freewill.

Adam & Eve were the only ones that had libertarian free will, in this we agree, but only before the fall. After the fall their will was corrupt as was their whole being. There was no soundness in them after the fall.

One step at a time. Do not rephrase what I say to fit your own thinking just take what I say at face value please, as What I intend to mean. If I am unclear let me know and I will try to say it in another way.

This is a big jump from the instructions about the tree all the way to Cain & Able. What happened to Adam in the Garden? If you do not understand what happened in the garden you cannot understand what Christ did, and how great a price He paid.

So my question to you is: "What happened in the garden?"

Genesis 4 v 4-7: Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenace fallen?

"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

God accepts Abels offering, I presume they were of better qaulity with more heart attitude that Cains.

It had nothing to do with the quality of the offering. There was every indication that Cain brought the very best he had. And it had nothing to do with the heart attitude.

Eventhough God does not respect Cains offereing, He gives Cain some advice by doing this He is extending His Hand to Cain and offering Him hope and restoration. - though we see Cain doesn't choose to accept it and kills Abel.

He is not offering hope to Cain.

Why didn't God have respect to Cain's offering?

LT

[Guest HIS girl]

='larryt'

Adam & Eve were the only ones that had libertarian free will, in this we agree, but only before the fall. After the fall their will was corrupt as was their whole being. There was no soundness in them after the fall.

Really? Why did God say that David was a "man after His own heart" - this having been pointed out, all the while David had sinned?

One step at a time. Do not rephrase what I say to fit your own thinking just take what I say at face value please, as What I intend to mean. If I am unclear let me know and I will try to say it in another way.

I am not rephrasing anything - I put forth MY views...my post is NOT about you.

This is a big jump from the instructions about the tree all the way to Cain & Able. What happened to Adam in the Garden? If you do not understand what happened in the garden you cannot understand what Christ did, and how great a price He paid.

So my question to you is: "What happened in the garden?"

You know what happened. They were banished from Eden and now had to live in a World under the curse of sin BUT in Genesis 3 v 14 - 15, God is pointing to the Salvation of Jesus in the future....RESTORATION for all of Adams descendants. You and me.

Genesis 4 v 4-7: Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenace fallen?

"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

God accepts Abels offering, I presume they were of better qaulity with more heart attitude that Cains.

It had nothing to do with the quality of the offering. There was every indication that Cain brought the very best he had. And it had nothing to do with the heart attitude.

Show me that indication Cains were of top quality.

Tell me your view on why Cains offering was rejected...it doesn't say does it BUT it does show us a little of Cains attitude...even after God gave him advice, Cain still seethed with jealousy and killed his brother.

Why didn't God have respect to Cain's offering?

You tell me larry. I'm all ears.

[larryt]

Psalm 95 v 7b - 8: Today, if you will hear His voice;

"Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, As in the day of trial in the wilderness,

Would the red text be talking to the chosen only? If so..why? That doesn't make sense -

You are right that it is address to all people. God is saying that to hear His voice is conditional upon not hardening the heart.

The chosen in fact do not harden the heart because God softens it by converting it to a heart of flesh from a heart of stone. He did say He would give us a heart of flesh did He not?

Psalm 100 v 5: For the LORD is good;

His mercy is everlasting,

And His truth endures to all

generations.

Macquaire Dictionary:

Mercy - Compassionate or kindly. Forbearance shown towards an offender, an enemy - compassionate, pity or benelovence.

Is Psalm 100 v 5 talking only about the "chosen"? If so, why would the verse mention mercy - if mercy means to show forbearance to an offender? If they are the chosen, then they wouldn't be the offender..does it mean to those who are sinners as well and have a Hope in coming to know Him?

More likely.

His truth endures to all generations - everyone has the opportunity to know Him.

Those that are chosen were chosen OUT OF THE WHOLE OF CORRUPT HUMANITY. The chosen are not righteous in themselves they are made righteous by the righteousness of Christ. The elect do not know they are the elect until they have Christ revealed in them.

Ga 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt' Ro 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God chooses who to show mercy to a who He will have compassion on.

How does that verse indicate exclusivism?

You wanted me to explain my views so here is just a little of what I believe. What I have posted in these last two replies larryt are my own ponderings and not from others - all my ponderings stem from the Word and not from a whacky book.

What wacky book are you referring to?

LT

There is NO book.

It is my thoughts as I read His Word.

Did you feel like I was referring to you somehow? Why?

[larryt]

='larryt'

Adam & Eve were the only ones that had libertarian free will, in this we agree, but only before the fall. After the fall their will was corrupt as was their whole being. There was no soundness in them after the fall.

Really? Why did God say that David was a "man after His own heart" - this having been pointed out, all the while David had sinned?

One step at a time. Do not rephrase what I say to fit your own thinking just take what I say at face value please, as What I intend to mean. If I am unclear let me know and I will try to say it in another way.

I am not rephrasing anything - I put forth MY views...my post is NOT about you.

This is a big jump from the instructions about the tree all the way to Cain & Able. What happened to Adam in the Garden? If you do not understand what happened in the garden you cannot understand what Christ did, and how great a price He paid.

So my question to you is: "What happened in the garden?"

You know what happened. They were banished from Eden and now had to live in a World under the curse of sin BUT in Genesis 3 v 14 - 15, God is pointing to the Salvation of Jesus in the future....RESTORATION for all of Adams descendants. You and me.

Genesis 4 v 4-7: Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenace fallen?

"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

God accepts Abels offering, I presume they were of better qaulity with more heart attitude that Cains.

It had nothing to do with the quality of the offering. There was every indication that Cain brought the very best he had. And it had nothing to do with the heart attitude.

Show me that indication Cains were of top quality.

Tell me your view on why Cains offering was rejected...it doesn't say does it BUT it does show us a little of Cains attitude...even after God gave him advice, Cain still seethed with jealousy and killed his brother.

Why didn't God have respect to Cain's offering?

You tell me larry. I'm all ears.

Abel brought what God required. Cain didn't. Cain brought the fruit of his own works. And you can bet they were good. He thought he would be accepted because he brought a wonderful offering. Abel brought a lamb which is what God required.

Why did God hate Esau?

Ro 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

And David was one of the elect. God chose to redeem him and save him from his sins.

LT

[Guest HIS girl]

Just like God's love not being like ours - so God's hate is not the same as what we know hate to be.

[Massorite]

Some people think that they are saved but are not. That is called self deception. If a person is going to heaven they do not have a question about it. They know.

I KNOW that .

My question was in regards to the pre-creation selection notion.

With THAT logic - many would be deceived - even after thinking they are the "chosen ones."

Also - if you were "chosen" many would be sinning - because they think they are untouchable...doesn't matter what sin they commit because they were predestined to be in Paradise. The whole notion is distorted.

When you get down to it - there is no point for Jesus having died on our behalf. Why would He have to if pre-selection was in place? His death signifies the fact He is reconciling ALL to Him - so ALL are available to spending eternity with Him/the Father. The original plan of God's.

I agree completely. I know some one who believes in the once saved always saved concept and is a full time alcholic of his own choosing and still thinks he is saved. Saved people are not full time drinkers. Similar concept same results.

[kross]

Some people think that they are saved but are not. That is called self deception. If a person is going to heaven they do not have a question about it. They know.

I KNOW that .

My question was in regards to the pre-creation selection notion.

With THAT logic - many would be deceived - even after thinking they are the "chosen ones."

Also - if you were "chosen" many would be sinning - because they think they are untouchable...doesn't matter what sin they commit because they were predestined to be in Paradise. The whole notion is distorted.

When you get down to it - there is no point for Jesus having died on our behalf. Why would He have to if pre-selection was in place? His death signifies the fact He is reconciling ALL to Him - so ALL are available to spending eternity with Him/the Father. The original plan of God's.

I agree completely. I know some one who believes in the once saved always saved concept and is a full time alcholic of his own choosing and still thinks he is saved. Saved people are not full time drinkers. Similar concept same results.

And i know a man who was a fulltime alcoholic and a Christian for 15 years. He fought in his own power and his flesh to stop drinking for the first 5 of those years. Finally, he just excepted that he was saved and he could not defeat his addiction, if GOD wanted him to stp drinking, GOD would have to do it. Ten years later, he stopped for his usual fifth of Jack after work, went out to his car, took a sip, said,"this is stupid" tossed it out the window and never drank again.

In your mind, he was not saved until GOD set him free from the addiction. But JESUS saved him 15 years before.

I am convinced that there are those who will die in some alley from the ravages of drugs and alcohol drowning in their own vomit, have no works but have a trust in JESUS. I believe JESUS will honor that trust.

There will be many that you would cast out of heaven who will be there and many you would let in who will be cast out.