I have a question.

[kross]

'HIS girl'

At Judgement - those who are turned away are the ones who did not have an intimate relationship with Christ and the Father - they were the ones who were all talk and no heartfelt action. Their words were hollow with no meaning - absent of Truth.

It is this reason they will be turned away - not because they were hand picked for rejection before time.

Most people who believe in election will not go to the point of God's sovereignty in reprobation. Partially becsuse it is secondary to the issue and it is less palitable than election to salvation.

I do not remember if this was mentioned in the previous, but I will say it anyway.

People like me who believe the doctrins of election, believe that no one would be saved if were not for GOD determining to save some. In seeing that every person in the world will reject CHRIST, HIS act of love is to save some by HIS grace alone. Where HE not to do this, none would be saved. This HE does inspite of the fact that there is absolutely no difference between those HE chooses to save and those HE chooses not to save. (the definition of grace)

They still go to the lake of fire as a result of their choices. Everyone would go to the lake of fire as a result of thier choices.

Some people believe that GOD only does so much to save people and if they reject HIM then O well. Those of us who believe the doctrins of election believe that GOD's love is so intense that HE will not let any of those HE loves go into the lake of fire and HE will do whatever it takes to save HIS people.

I realize that we have talked this thing around the horn and back. I would toss in some scriptures, but they never really make a difference.

Prov.16:4 and Romans 9 point to something. The verses that talk about predestination, adoption, election, choosen, called, all point to something and they are all written in reference to HIS people. (yes there are those who can change the meanings of the scriptures to be what they want them to be) All of the scriptures about GOD's love towards men are written about HIS love for HIS people. There is no scripture that refers to GOD loving those who are not HIS people.

I believe that the Bible is the absolute perfect inerrant word of GOD. I am not saying that I believe the texts it was derived from as the only inerrant writings, I believe GOD led men by HIS HOLY SPIRIT to bring forth the current Bible (the KJV to be precise). I believe these men were the very best at interpretting the original texts because I believe in the hand of GOD in their work. So, when modern theologians come along and say "this is not the best translation for this text" I do not buy it. GOD has given us a perfect work to study and learn from.

for 2,000 years Bible scholars have debated the doctrins of election. Both sides are convinced they are right and the others are decieved. It will be that way until CHRIST comes again. (unless HE decides otherwise) So it is one of those doubtful things that is not worth fighting or argueing about. It is worth the discussion but all to often the discussions degrade to name calling or the "I'm right and your wrong" attitude.

We are saved by faith in JESUS CHRIST. How we got that faith...?

[Guest HIS girl]

Do you agree with this -

As God has given us freewill - He also has freewill to save or not to save? He just chooses this person over that person? I'm a little confused.

What would be His deciding factor?

[larryt]

Do you agree with this -

As God has given us freewill - He also has freewill to save or not to save? He just chooses this person over that person? I'm a little confused.

What would be His deciding factor?

Only His good pleasure.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

LT

[Guest]

What would be His deciding factor?

You

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 1 John 4:15

You

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

You

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

Because Of HIM

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

And HIS Father

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

We Are Offered The Gift Of God Himself

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

And I Still Don't Think That I Really Really Get It........ Yet!

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Corinthians 2:9

Hallelujah!

[Guest HIS girl]

Do you agree with this -

As God has given us freewill - He also has freewill to save or not to save? He just chooses this person over that person? I'm a little confused.

What would be His deciding factor?

Only His good pleasure.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

LT

So what would you suggest is "the good pleasure of His will"?

[kross]

Do you agree with this -

As God has given us freewill - He also has freewill to save or not to save? He just chooses this person over that person? I'm a little confused.

What would be His deciding factor?

"By grace you are saved, through faith, this not of yourself, it is a gift from GOD, not of works lest anyone should boast" (some people think the gift of JESUS is the grace, some believe the gift of faith is the grace. The original greek holds up the idea that the gift is faith) according to "HIM who works all things according to HIS good pleasure of HIS will."

There is nothing in any person that is atractive to GOD. We are all evil and decietfully wicked. No flesh is going to glory in HIS presence because no flesh is going to have had anything to glory about. It is all of HIM.

Yes, whomsoever can come, none will come "because their deeds are dark" those who do come do so, " ...born not of blood (inheritance) nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD." Born of the SPIRIT, not born of themselve.

When JESUS teaches the parable of the Tares and Wheat, HE uses a weed that looks just like Wheat until the Wheat matures. Taresw are never Wheat, Wheat are never Tares. HE, JESUS explains very clearly what the parable means. HE, JESUS states that there are those who are GOD's and there are those who are the Devil's. One will never become the other.

How does HE choose, shear, coplete, absolute determination to create some for HIMSELF as vessels of honor.

You are absolutely correct that this will not fully line-up with human logic. That is why we must first see what the scriptures say and then try to understand HIM.

[kross]

Here is another question. If God created MAN (meaning every single human being on this planet: past, present, and future) in His own image and likeness (Gen. 1:26, Colossians 3:10), wouldn't it be a slam against God's own character to say that He created some in His own image and likeness to go to hell??? That sounds pretty blasphemous if you ask me. That would be like a major car manufacturer like Chevy making a bunch of Corvettes only to sell some and to bring the others to the compound...(for those who like analogies, that's the best one I could think of)

Also, God is a fisher of man. Jesus said to His disciples to follow Him and He would make them fishers of men (Matt 4:19, Mark 1:17). I don't see anywhere in scripture where Jesus is teaching them to fish for God's chosen men. Rather He taught them to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERY creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:15-16). hmm...sounds like in vs. 16 God is giving us a choice there. See God will take any fish that comes to His bait...which is His word (Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES"). God want's everyone!!! You would have to twist God's word too much to say anything different.

J

Your first question kind of answers itself. If you believe that GOD creates them individually knowing exactly which ones are going to go to hell and which ones will go to heaven... (proverbs 16:4)

We are the fishers of men, GOD already owns them all to do with as HE chooses.

Yes, absolutely, every person on earth is given the choice. No doubt about it. And every person on earth will reject GOD outright.

[larryt]

Do you agree with this -

As God has given us freewill - He also has freewill to save or not to save? He just chooses this person over that person? I'm a little confused.

What would be His deciding factor?

Only His good pleasure.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

LT

So what would you suggest is "the good pleasure of His will"?

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt'

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Do you think that verse points to God being 'exclusive" from before Creation?

2Ti 2:19

[Guest HIS girl]

Tell me what you think Larry -

would it be evil or good to create a person fully knowing that person would spend eternity in Hell?

Does that sound like God from the Bible?

If the bold text was a fact - then freewill would be pointless and Christs death on the Cross also.