Top 10 Instances of Christian Bashing in America, 2008

[Axxman]

Yes, those things concern me, but this list is for the most part a joke. People making movies making fun of religion is not persecution, it is what we should expect.

I won't be condescending...but seriously...how can you (and Burning Ember) even make these statements??? My family, my wife, and my kids have all dealt with different forms of harrassment and persecution for our beliefs...for you guys to say its a myth makes me wonder if you put your life out there enough to even be given a hard time. Jesus said that they will hate us because of Him...that has shown to be true in my life. I can't help but wonder what kind of life a person must be living if it is not true in their lives? (again, don't take this as an accusation...more of a inquiry.)

Now...a caveat...certainly Christians in other parts of the world (and America) have it worse than me. I would not trade spots with a Christian in China or Afghanistan...you got me there. There is NO DOUBT that religious persecution is at another level in those places...but that does not mean that Christianity is not under attack in America.

Even recently there has been calls for violence against Christians. Christians who are known to have supported Prob 8 in California have had there names and addresses and phone numbers posted on the internet along with calls for violence...financial donors had links to google maps so that they could be easily found. In 2008 alone, a Cincinnati Pastor was killed while attending a funeral. Governor Sarah Palin's church was torched in Alaska. A Christian radio station was attacked by a crazed gunman in Pennsylvania. A church shooting in Knoxville, Tenn., sent ripples of fear through the Christian community nationwide. At my own church in 2008 there was a "very credible" threat against my church. I was worried to take my kids to church.

"Risks are only going up for the Christian community. The U.S. State Department now classifies faith-based organizations as one of the top five 'at risk' groups in the world today," said Jeffery Hawkins, executive director of the Christian Security Network, a national organization that provides security planning, training and emergency preparedness and response resources for Christian churches, ministries, schools and missionaries.

Just this week, across America, ther have been 5 churches targeted for vandalism or arson. Two in Texas, one each in Iowa, Georgia, and Florida. This stuff happens all the time...it is no myth.

[MorningGlory]

Prayer in school may be legal in the ephemeral sense of the word, but when was the last time you, personally tried to pray in school, or personally know someone who did?

The youth group from my church holds a prayer group at the start of each day at the 3 schools they are represent.

Go to http://www.syatp.com/info/history/ and tell me kids cant pray in their schools.

I am a member of the local school board and there is no one here stopping anyone from praying.

A lot of this is dependent upon where you live......in the south it's more likely to be no big deal to have prayer in schools. There are some places in the country where it's not done but, no, I've never heard of anyplace in the U.S. where you would be arrested or expelled for praying. I think it's group prayer that is not allowed. Anyway, I'm one of those that says "I'm going to pray whenever and whereever I please and no threat of arrest or prosecution is going to change that." If the ACLU can't handle that... well....that's what attornies are for.

[Axxman]

The youth group from my church holds a prayer group at the start of each day at the 3 schools they are represent.

Go to http://www.syatp.com/info/history/ and tell me kids cant pray in their schools.

I am a member of the local school board and there is no one here stopping anyone from praying.

As a member of the School Board then you know that Gov't guidelines state that these group functions may not happen during school hours. "See you at the Pole" prayer events are sanctioned as before or after school events.

Also, children are allowed to pray at school...on their own time (even with friends) as long as no one finds them disruptive or offensive.

[Guest LadyC]

can someone please tell me how the kindergarten girl was being disruptive or offensive when she quietly bowed her head and said a silent prayer before eating her lunch in the cafeteria? i'll have to see if i can still find that story anywhere, it was all over the news a couple of years ago, and was discussed at length here on these forums.

[Guest LadyC]

if i recall correctly, the ACLJ (is that the firm that defends christians?) took on the case. i can't find it through google. not coming up with the right search terms to find something that old i guess. i hope someone here will help me out and find it for me.

[Axxman]

There are always going to be examples of people being mistreated for one reason or another. These are not examples of persecution in my opinion. There are people today that are mistreated because of their gender, race and etc and I am sure you would not call what they are going through persecution.

I will admit I was not clear about my statements so let me try to clarify. There is no wide spread persecution of Christians in this country. For the most part we have it easy here, too easy probably. I think that for Christians to pull the persecution card just makes us look like whiners.

Being harrassed, or mistreated on the basis of your age, gender, race, religious beliefs...is the very definition of persecution.

I will agree that it is easier here than other places...but it is not getting easier. The overall direction of the country is becoming decidingly un-christian...even anti-christian in some cases. The very nature of discourse in this country is becoming non-christian vs. christian. Since "true" christianity is a clear minority in this country...persecution is increasingly becoming more common towards Christians. I have to disagree that this persecution is not wide-spread. It happens in every state, to nearly every christian who stands up for Godly morals and beliefs. However, I will admit that the term "wide-spread" is subjective.

I think the best you can say is that persecution against Christians is not as bad in America as it is in other places...yet.

I have been there, as I said my faith cost me a promotion which ended my career as a Marine. I have been laughed at and made fun of. This is not persecution in my view, this is idiots being idiots.

Clearly, to your credit, you have a thick skin. You are not going to whine because somebody harrassed you...kudos to you. However, it is clearly an example of persecution if your religious beliefs were used against you, cost you a promotion, and messed with your livelihood. The fact that you are a Marine who can handle adversity doesn't change the definition. So...with that said...I will stop harping on the "question" of whether you are putting yourself out there to be persecuted. Clearly you have. On the flip side of that...not everyone has been graced with thick skin, and when they are mistreated, harrassed and persecuted for their religious beliefs...it really means something to them. It can hurt. It can cause worry.

When I was a kid...I used to worry about my dad coming home from Russia (and other countries) because the "idiots" (to use your term) arrested Christians. In my 20's I was assaulted by a bunch of "idiots," who raided a prayer rally in a park, because I refused to get off my knees and stop praying. As an adult last year, I was planning exit strategies with my kids in my church because a local "idiot" decided that he needed to destroy our church. I'm pretty tough minded too...but I'm no 20yr Marine veteran...and those are just a few instances of persecution that affected my life. When people are tempted to take a gun to church in America...somethings changed.

And how many schools, bridges, stores and homes have been targeted for vandalism or arson this week? Are all those people being persecuted also?

We need to be careful when we call something persecution or we will end up like the boy who called wolf when it starts to happen in earnest.

Again, persecution is when mistreatment is directed at a person, by a person of opposing beliefs. If a muslim school is attacked, because its muslim...thats persecution. Vandalism or arson alone are not persecution...but if the place is targeted because it is a church...thats persecution. If you post my address, phone number, email and provide a map to my house in Arizona because I donated money to Prop 102 (Defense of Marriage Fund)...thats persecution.

Thats not crying wolf Bro! Thats exposing it for what it is.

[MorningGlory]

There are always going to be examples of people being mistreated for one reason or another. These are not examples of persecution in my opinion. There are people today that are mistreated because of their gender, race and etc and I am sure you would not call what they are going through persecution.

I will admit I was not clear about my statements so let me try to clarify. There is no wide spread persecution of Christians in this country. For the most part we have it easy here, too easy probably. I think that for Christians to pull the persecution card just makes us look like whiners.

Being harrassed, or mistreated on the basis of your age, gender, race, religious beliefs...is the very definition of persecution.

I will agree that it is easier here than other places...but it is not getting easier. The overall direction of the country is becoming decidingly un-christian...even anti-christian in some cases. The very nature of discourse in this country is becoming non-christian vs. christian. Since "true" christianity is a clear minority in this country...persecution is increasingly becoming more common towards Christians. I have to disagree that this persecution is not wide-spread. It happens in every state, to nearly every christian who stands up for Godly morals and beliefs. However, I will admit that the term "wide-spread" is subjective.

I think the best you can say is that persecution against Christians is not as bad in America as it is in other places...yet.

I have been there, as I said my faith cost me a promotion which ended my career as a Marine. I have been laughed at and made fun of. This is not persecution in my view, this is idiots being idiots.

Clearly, to your credit, you have a thick skin. You are not going to whine because somebody harrassed you...kudos to you. However, it is clearly an example of persecution if your religious beliefs were used against you, cost you a promotion, and messed with your livelihood. The fact that you are a Marine who can handle adversity doesn't change the definition. So...with that said...I will stop harping on the "question" of whether you are putting yourself out there to be persecuted. Clearly you have. On the flip side of that...not everyone has been graced with thick skin, and when they are mistreated, harrassed and persecuted for their religious beliefs...it really means something to them. It can hurt. It can cause worry.

When I was a kid...I used to worry about my dad coming home from Russia (and other countries) because the "idiots" (to use your term) arrested Christians. In my 20's I was assaulted by a bunch of "idiots," who raided a prayer rally in a park, because I refused to get off my knees and stop praying. As an adult last year, I was planning exit strategies with my kids in my church because a local "idiot" decided that he needed to destroy our church. I'm pretty tough minded too...but I'm no 20yr Marine veteran...and those are just a few instances of persecution that affected my life. When people are tempted to take a gun to church in America...somethings changed.

And how many schools, bridges, stores and homes have been targeted for vandalism or arson this week? Are all those people being persecuted also?

We need to be careful when we call something persecution or we will end up like the boy who called wolf when it starts to happen in earnest.

Again, persecution is when mistreatment is directed at a person, by a person of opposing beliefs. If a muslim school is attacked, because its muslim...thats persecution. Vandalism or arson alone are not persecution...but if the place is targeted because it is a church...thats persecution. If you post my address, phone number, email and provide a map to my house in Arizona because I donated money to Prop 102 (Defense of Marriage Fund)...thats persecution.

Thats not crying wolf Bro! Thats exposing it for what it is.

Just curious, Axx; why was your dad in Russia? Was he a diplomat?

[nebula]

Also, children are allowed to pray at school...on their own time (even with friends) as long as no one finds them disruptive or offensive.

I see a problem here. What happens when someone finds them "offensive"? There are people who get all up in arms about religious expression being displayed.

[Guest LadyC]

On the flip side of that...not everyone has been graced with thick skin, and when they are mistreated, harrassed and persecuted for their religious beliefs...it really means something to them. It can hurt. It can cause worry.

let me add to this... for many, many christians who are not thick skinned, it can silence them. that is the PURPOSE of the harassment, to silence the christians. and it's working very effectively on a large scale nationwide.

(and again, i'll mention what jfk said... all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing... this is why God tells us our battle is not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers, and darkness. we are to be a light to this world... when we are silenced, whether that silence is out of intimidation or out of "oh, this is just stupidity to be expected", satan is getting a stronghold in this country.)

by the way, why should we expect movies that mock christianity and the likes? 20 years ago, that would not have been tolerated by the christian community, and the wheelers and dealers in hollywood would not have allowed such blatant garbage. if this was something we SHOULD expect, then why is it a relatively new thing?

[Axxman]

yes they are, when else would that many kids be allowed out of class?

Based on the "Joint Statement of Current Law" that is Distributed to every school in the country the law is:

11. Student participation in before- or after-school events, such as

"see you at the pole," is permissible. School officials, acting in

an official capacity, may neither discourage nor encourage

participation in such an event.

This is also quoted on the SYATP website.

Is this a bad thing? Should we not strive to be non-disruptive and to not cause offense?

Is it the mission of a Christian to be disruptive or cause offensive?

The "mission" of Christianity is NOT disruptive or offensive...the very nature of Christianity is offensive and disruptive to the world. Jesus was tremendously disruptive and offensive...to the point that they wanted to kill him. If we live and promote a Christian lifestyle it will be considered disruptive and will cause offense regardless if that is our intention or not.