Willa

I realized that all of us should give, but we should also evangelize, making disciples, and give to the poor. While some of us are compelled to give out of gratitude, we find it more difficult to share the gospel. Paul said he was compelled to preach the Gospel, but he also gave to the poor. I assume that he also tithed because he was a Jew. But what I am saying that we contribute to the church first according to the gifts given us. We contribute to the needs of the church according to the needs that we see, and that defines our spiritual gifts as well. I had a pastor who always talked about giving because this was the last area of his life that he finally surrendered to God; in his mind the two went together, and giving meant a surrendered life. But i don't believe this is necessarily so. I know some whose burning desire is friendship evangelism. They are always looking for ways to plant seeds in the lives of unbelievers or backsliders. Meanwhile they pour their lives into helping them with gifts of service or helps, always being available to help repair a car or whatever they can do. Yet their giving is not a tithe. I do believe their lives are fully surrendered to God and the have their priorities straight. Perhaps in time their monitary giving will increase. But that is God's business as they walk in the Spirit. And perhaps my compassion for the lost will someday overcome my reluctance to speak up and I will be filled with boldness. Love and a surrendered life that walks in the Spirit are perhaps better guages of maturity.

I know people who send their kids to church, send them to christian schools, but never go themselves. They may have been baptized believers when they were younger but have backslid. Still they want their kids to do better than they are doing. But kids do what their parents do,, not what they say. Sadly, I have never known this to work out well.

We are born once of the flesh, and once of the Spirit. We can backslide and rededicate our lives to God, but we are just a prodigal and still a son. or daughter. And no one can take them out of God's hand. We are eternally secure as long as we want to be. Yet there are many warnings about leaving God. Should we totally reject our salvation, reject the beautiful work of the Holy Spirit saying it is of satan, go into idolitry or some other heathen religion or otherwise renounce the work of Christ on the cross, we are warned against having our name blotted out of the Book of Life or becomming a reprobate. That sounds pretty final. By that time we would not even care. God will try to reclaim His lost sheep till our dying breath, is my personal belief. Some of these people have gone on to form cults and create false doctrine to deceive others. Some say they were never God's to begin with, which is probably true. Those who endure to the end shall be saved. Still, we are warned not to do these things. From our perspective we should be vigilant, to not let ouselves become luke warm, to beware of false doctrine, and to work out our own salvations with fear and trembling.

Perhaps it is because nobody has sat down and calmly explained to them what the Bible says on the matter? I too pray that people find the truth. I still maintain that it is possible to support the things mentioned above and be a Christian. I do believe that with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and patient encouragement of other Believers it is possible for people to come to the truth (abortion is murder, homosexual relations are sin, etc) regarding these subjects. GE, I agree with you to an extent. The problem that I face is that they refuse to use the Bible as a basis for coming to agreement because they believe the Bible is just mans philosophy so they are also entitled to their ideas. So they don't even have a bibical definition of Who God is. I so often hear of hell "well, MY god would not send anybody to hell!" They say they have asked Jesus to be their Savior but by this time you don't even know who they think Jesus is. They reject His word. I have a very hard time thinking of a person as a Christian who has made God into their own image.. So every so often I get to sew a seed or share a testamony, and I continue to pray and to love them. How would you consider these people? are they saved? I honostly don't know. Do you consider the emerging church to be a Christian church? or Unitarian, or Black Liberation Theology? Some people have a different idea of what it even means to accept Jesus as your Savior. My issue is discarding or disregarding these people (so-called liberals) as unsaved simply because of their views on certain controversial issues. God bless, GE

It is more important to learn what God has to say about those issues and go to a church that preaches and teaches the Bible. The Bible contains God's ideas. It was inspired by God the Holy Spirit. Our ideas need to be conformed to God's. Romans 12:2 And do be not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptabe and perfect will of God." This is what Christianity is all about--becoming more like Jesus, our Creator, and thinking the way He thinks about people (loving them) as well as about sin (hating it).

They would probably make it a system of support groups led by psychologists and get around it somehow. Some secular humanists, by the way, were diests.

That is very interesting. I have not even been able to strike up a conversation with muslim women I meet while walking. When I say Hi, how are you, or hello, they avert their eyes, lower their heads and refuse to even smile. I figured it is probably their tradition, but I at least try to be friendly. Even if they don't understand the language, they at least know how to smile, and they need to be taught that in this country a smile goes a long ways. I know in large cities it is different, but in the rural west USA it is customary to be friendly.

Lothar, should God use you to be a small part in the working of a miracle, you might change your mind. That is what happened to me. Then I decided that if miracles can happen today, they also must have happened in the Bible. Perhaps the evolving religion that you profess will give way to an evolving of your own self--from adhering to an intellectual philosophy to adhering to and depending upon the resurrected Christ. I hope so. It is sad to depend on a man made philosophy. There is no life giving power in that. The God of the Bible changes lives and is our ever present help in time of need. You have an idea. I have a friend "What a friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear. What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer."

The guy said he is not getting everything he wants. Well, guess what. Most of us don't get everything that we want. Welcome to the real world.

I had this happen, too, and nearly lost my job over it. I was working for the school district and was accused by a mother of being mean to children. She even went to the superintendent of schools over it. But I didn't know what would cause her to say such a thing or what I had done to cause this... So I asked God to vindicate me and reveal the truth. It was a very hard year. Eventually she went on TV and made hysterical paranoid accusations toward other people and they saw her for what she was. But it was awful to go through. Even some friends thought it must be true. The only thing I can say is that Jesus suffered false accusation, too, and He is praying for you. Matthew 5:10-12 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdome of heaven. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil about you falsely for My Name's sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." And remember that Jesus loves and died for them, too. Wait till someday when one of them needs a friend, and then show them kindness. That is the only thing I can suggest. I know it doesn't make you feel any better now. But remember that God loves you and is looking out for you.

We saw a Gray Jay land on our late pastor's bald head. We told him it was the "annointing". I think it even left its mark on him.

Let me guess--she doesn't believe the Bible either.

I like that answer. Yes, we are curious and creative. I believe that God enjoys to see us be creative and learn new things, so long as we don't break his rules and we behave as his children. We are designed to live on Earth, but I have no reason to believe he was angry that we landed on the Moon, or that we have discovered for ourselves how his Universe works. There's nothing in scripture that says we can't do such things as long as we acknowledge God's power behind it all. That was what bothered me about our moon landing. I didn't hear anyone give any glory to God or thanksgiving. It still grieves me. It seemed like a giant step in the wrong direction. Being out there and seeing the beauty of the universe and not giving God His due?

Hi! Welcome. The only answer I can add is that He made us in His image. We are made with a creative bent as well as curiosity, so I have to wonder if God also has a curiositiy. We know he is creative since He is Creator. All things are made by Him,through Him and for Him. Moreover in Him all things consist or are formed or put together. Col.1:17

This is the very point that I was about to make. We are all being changed from glory to glory. I am so thankful that God doesn't reveal all our sin to us at once. It would be overwhelming. And even those of us who are more mature still have areas that we are blind to. God is still working in all our lives. My two best friends are very liberal politically. I have one friend who is saved but she is convinced that our president is a Christian and she is a good democrat.. I am not. The other one does not believe that the Bible is inspired. She goes to a liberal church, she believes Jesus died for her sins, she believes in miracles, yet she does not believe the Bible. Her beliefs are similar to the emerging church. When I asked her if she could surrender her life to God as her Lord, she said "that is hard". Hopefully God will help her understand the reality of His Word. Hopefully both of my friends will have their eyes opened to the lies of the enemy of our souls. So I pray. A third friend is a liberal who hardly thinks we can be friends because we are so different. Yet God has given me an astounding love for her for some reason. She spent a year trying to get me to recycle. I refuse to wash my garbage. Maybe God will change me. Who knows. But the very fact that God has given them the grace to not just tollerate me but to actually give me a big hug when they see me says something about them, since I tend to be pretty outspoken and conservative. God does seem to work first on our love quotient. At least He did me. Pat, I have to think of the Apostle John; He and James were known as the sons of thunder. But as God changed him he became one of the most gentle, patient and loving of the apostles. Yet he manages to speak the truth pretty blatently. I don't know how anyone can ooze so much love and grace while saying "if you say you love God and hate your brother you are a liar.." God seems to work the most on those areas that need it the most. Perhaps that kind of change most glorifies Him.. I am so glad none of you knew me 50 years ago. I was really hateful and ugly toward people whose beliefs i believed were wrong, such as Mormons. My pastor even reproved me. You guys really are a great bunch.

The historical bedrock argument seems to be rooted in the 1 Cor 15 "creed" 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, This seems to be an early oral tradition, encorporated into the Scriptures by Paul. AMEN! Or it may have been spoken to Paul by the Holy Spirit, as well. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that yousoever believes in Him should not parish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His so into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 1 John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. v.15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God. Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you which also is Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in the appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 1 Cor, 5:3b And no one can say that Jesus in Lord except by the Holy Spirit. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. v 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us , and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Acts 1:8-9 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of ther sight. John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembraance all things that I said to you. 2 Timothy 3:16; All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitabe for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..

Unforgiveness. Matt 6:15 NKJV But if you do not forgive men their tresspasses, neither will your Father forgive your tresspasses.

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

I once heard a joke. A man and his wife were lying in bed praying. He prayed Lord, change my wife. She prayed Lord, change my husband. Their prayers arose to the ceiling and neutralized. Actually, when I used to pray that God change my husband God changed me, instead, to be able to forbear him in love, just as he is. It is so amazing that God can hear and answer our prayers like we were the only person in the world, yet there are millions praying all the time, and He can hear all of us. I wake up so slowly in the morning,, I am very fortunate that He hears us the rest of the day as well. Some of us have to have coffee to be awake enough to think, let alone pray.

I can't help but think that those who have flat rejected Christ after hearing the Gospel will have it worse than those who have never heard it. But I really don't want to find out for myself. I will stay in God's camp even if it is to be the doorkeeper or in an obscure corner. I just want to be there.

Coheir,, it doesn't seem like heaven without pets, but I guess I won't mind if Jesus is there. But our pastor loves to ride his horse and is quick to remind us that horses will be in heaven since Jesus and His saints return on horses for warfare. And we will have white robes, washed in His blood, which seems a little contradictory but I am sure it means purity. The thought of being able to see Jesus as He is, and to see God our Daddy, just blows my mind. It seems like science fiction so beyond my comprehension, to see the actual Creator of the universe. I wonder if we will be able to explore the universe and go where no man has gone before. I have often wondered if heaven is another dimension that we are not aware of. It all seems so surreal and exciting.

I use NKJV, NASV, Wuest, and Amplified.

I know it's the opposite of prosperity teaching but where did God promise in the Bible all that some preachers preach? Some of the verses that are widely used are taken out of context. For instance, Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. This verse is for the Jews in captivity in babylon, At the end of their 70 years in captivity. It is a wonderful promise and I am sure that the principal holds true for all who are being chastened by God, but it is concerning the restoration of Israel. 3 John 2 was written to Gaius. I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, even as your soul prospers. Many forget about it being a prayer and it is not God speaking. Nor do they pay much attention to the part about his soul prospering. When we seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness we start to seek spiritual prosperity. We want the treasures in heaven, not on earth. These are true ritches. But many who seek worldly riches are carnal Christians, and do not yet see the value of treasures in heaven. There hearts are not totally given to God. Malachi 3:8-10 speaks of testing God by tithing to God's house and seeing if He will not bless those who do by rebuking the devourer. This is true. Things do not break down and we are led to good sales, or we don't make those mistakes in our checking accounts that set us back. Our animals dont get sick and things just go much better when we give to God first and out of a grateful heart. Moreover, He gives us spiritual blessings such as joy. And we should not let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. If a pastor acknowledges someones' giving, I would look for another church. It is nobody elses business. Give and it will be given to you is Luke 6:38. I do believe that you can't out give God. He has normally replaced what we have given, and as said before, our needs have been met. But we should never give to get. We should give out of a grateful heart. And we should give as we are prospered. Some who are out of work are not prospering and are not expected to give. Those who give the widows mite, their last dollar, will be greatly blessed by God. She expected nothing in return but gave her all. It is our hearts that God sees. Your quote reminds me much of the writings of Archbishop Fenelon a few centuries ago. Thank you angels, a great post.

All people are truly welcome in our church. However, our pastor does expository bible studies and the Holy Spirit is very active on Sunday mornings. Since God does His job quite well, some will feel uncomfortable. Many of these end up in counseling, so if they aren't saved on Sunday, many repent and are saved in counseling. We are also good at holding people accountable, which helps a lot of people overcome habitual sin and addictions. Sinners are always welcome. There is a well established jail ministry and our pastor once laughed that much of our congregation are either former inmates or deputy sherriffs. We also have some people who have been gay or lesbians. I only know one personally because I have known him since he was a kid. Otherwise they are treated like everyone else and our pastors don't reveal past sins. We only know that pastors do encounter them in counseling and many of them do come to repentance..Our pastor has found that the average life span of a homosexual is much shorter, like 42 years or something, and addictions usually accompany their activity because they often hate themselves for what they do. He has so much compassion for sinners, it is amazing. But I see more people grow spiritually in our church than any I have been in. There is a lot of discipling going on in the congregation just through friendships with new christians. But sin is always called what it is. Emotionalism is discouraged, and our pastor doesn't shout repent or anything. He leaves that up to the Holy Spirit. He just does expository bible teaching. Since the Bible talks about sin a lot, so does he. He does mention that those who continue to practice sinful lifestyles will not be found in heaven--but such were some of us. 1 Cor. 6:9-11 And when it pertains to the lesson he is sure to invite people to give their lives to Christ and turn away from sin. But he does not even do this every Sunday. I frequently hear people explain qestions about parts of the message to guests and even lead them to the Lord right there in the pews. Our son led his mother in law to the Lord that way. He had also led his wife to the Lord after a service before they started dating. When asked what our pastor does for evangelism and church growth our pastor tells them "sunday morning" We have sunday evening and wednesday evening services that are "membership meetings".where we ask for prayer and ask questions about scriptures or the Christian life. (We do not have a formal membership.)

[size=5 ]Williamina, I had always heard that the Disciples of Christ was neither for or against the Trinity. That is interesting. This was in the Pacific Northwest back in the 50s. However the church 50 miles away is very strong in teaching the trinity. It very much depends on the church or the pastor. Ours refused to do it because the word isn't in the Bible.