GandalfTheWise

One thing to realize in any romantic relationship is that we cannot fix another person. We can give them encouragement and tangible support, but we cannot fix them. The reality is that their addiction will have consequences which will affect those around them. Depending on the addiction, these can be severe consequences. One can love a heroin addict unconditionally, but it won't change the behavior that they'll likely exhaust all possible financial resources (both legal and illegal) and quite possibly end up dead because of it. A sex addiction is unlikely to bring financial ruin or death as consequences, but it will affect relationships in a negative manner. Based on many Christian testimonies I've heard over the years, this is something that might be there to struggle with for many years. There are two aspects to addictions: mitigation and freedom. Mitigation is where steps are taken to reduce the consequences of an addiction. Freedom is where the addiction is gone. I'm not a trained counselor or anything, but having heard many Christians' testimonies over the years and read many things about it, my sense of things is this. Some addictions are the problem themselves. This is the person who becomes addicted primarily through experimentation and getting hooked. However, some addictions and compulsive feelings and behaviors are a symptom of a deeper problem that needs to be resolved. This is the person who experienced deep and and perhaps chronic trauma of some type and is now doing things like overeating, overmedicating, acting compulsively, experiencing debilitating fear or anger as a symptom of this deeper spiritual and emotional injury. No amount of willpower and setting goals ever really cures an addiction whatever its source. Sometimes this does mitigate the addiction and makes it manageable for the person and close relations. However, sometimes the behavior continues to worsen over time. Sometimes eliminating addictions (and I'd include compulsive behaviors and emotional reactions too) requires some type of emotional and spiritual healing in our lives. Having listened to many testimonies over the years, one common theme is that when some people have experienced a spiritual and emotional healing of some type that some seemingly unrelated compulsive feelings and behaviors and addictions have unexpectedly disappeared. Some testimonies are that this just suddenly happened one day during a prayer meeting, retreat, or in a time of personal prayer. Other testimonies are that this happened in a series of steps over time often including counseling and other people alongside them. I've also heard testimonies where such things as a smoking addiction just vanished in an act of divine deliverance. Sex addiction is something that many Christian men struggle with. There are many resources for helping to mitigate this that have helped many Christians reduce the consequences of the addiction. With regard to freedom from it, that seems to be something that uniquely occurs as a natural part of their Christian walk and spiritual growth. That seems to be different for each person. I think the main thing is to walk closely with God and let Him guide and direct one's steps. We often see things in our lives that we consider the worse possible thing that needs to change whereas God maybe has other priorities to work on first. I think doing things to mitigate the consequences of addictions and compulsive behaviors is wise (including meeting with experienced Christian counselors at times). However, we need to remember that there are some things in our life that we can trivially change by just deciding to change and other things that require God's transforming work in our lives to change us. We need to stay focused on God and the direction He is guiding us in. In the long run, fruit of the Spirit (including self-control) is something that spiritually grows in our lives as a part of walking with God and being transformed.

Two points. Point one: Forgiving someone frees us. When we don't forgive someone, we remain emotionally and spiritually in bondage to whatever it was they did to us or someone else. As long as we lose sleep, grit our teeth, tense up, or cannot get that person out of our head every time we are reminded of them, we are in bondage. When we are reminded of them, feel no strong negative reaction, and can just mentally go back to what we were doing, we have more freedom. Point two: Forgiveness does not mean we need to reestablish a relationship or trust someone. Unless they have changed, it might be unsafe to be around them or have a relationship with them. Trust and confidence in someone develops over time as we see consistent patterns of behavior; it is not something we just freely give. If someone's past behavior has destroyed our trust and confidence in them; their present and future behavior must change to rebuild trust and confidence. Forgiveness is something unilateral that immediately benefits us. It also lays the foundation for a possible reconciliation. Reconciliation is a two way street. It often requires that the other person has indeed changed in some manner.

Once I got my wife a power saw for her birthday..... seriously, it's what she wanted. Last week, we were helping our neighbor with his deck. My wife got a big thrill out of using a nail gun for the first time. She had a big grin on her face.

I usually take the number of pages in my Bible and divide it by the number of days I am targeting. I find chapter lengths vary a lot and I prefer have similar amounts of reading each day. I just read my pages and then stop at a natural paragraph or section break on the next page. For example, I have one Bible that is about 1200 pages. If I was targeting finishing in one year, that works out to about 3.3 pages per day, so I'd just read 4 pages per day. That gives me plenty of leeway for those times when my reading gets disrupted.

I think most just use the terms interchangeably to refer to people who are in the body of Christ. Strictly speaking, the term believer could be used of anyone who believes something (not necessarily Christianity), but in practice when Christians use the term it is usually just synonymous with Christian.

Treat them the way they want to be treated, not the way you assume they want to be treated.

The current church we go to has a predominantly black backdrop and ceiling behind the main platform which does help visibility of projection screens and other things. I think it's a combination of curtains and painted areas. The previous one we went to primarily had woodwork, decorative trims, plants, etc. with some nondescript beige or gray walls. I guess I just got used to them as they are. It never even registered with me that black was the predominant color on the back wall behind the platform of our current church until I saw this thread. On the other hand, if the color and decoration scheme of the two churches were interchanged, it'd be a huge shock to the system for awhile.

Having been married for over 30 years, I can tell you from a simple practical standpoint that the more you have in common with your life partner, the better. Marriages typically go through 3 general stages, infatuation/passion, disillusionment, and (if it survives disillusionment) contentment. At some point, the initial feelings fade and you are left with the real person that you married. If they are a person of integrity and good character with no serious dysfunction, have a similar outlook on life, share similar priorities in life, and have a good family that both you and they get along with well, you will be in a much better position to weather the inevitable times when your relationship is going through a low point. If your partner has some serious dysfunction or problems, marriage will usually not cover those up but will reveal them over time. Over time, both partners change and the relationship must adapt and change. The more you have in common, the easier it is to adapt and become comfortable partners for life and have a more peaceful and contented life. This is no guarantee but it increases the odds in your favor considerably of having a marriage that makes your life better versus one that makes your life worse over the years. I've heard many painful testimonies over the years from Christians who ignored many red flags and married someone they shouldn't have. It ended up being much more painful for a much longer time and with a bigger impact on their life (especially those who had kids) than a break up early on would have been. I've known Christians who married other Christians ignoring many red flags that they later regretted not paying attention to as well. Often these marriages ended after much frustration and pain. To be fair, I've heard a few missionary dating testimonies that did work out. However, the majority usually had long term problems of some type beyond the normal struggles most marriages have. In some cases, the unbelieving spouse remained polite about it but the believing spouse ended up going to church and doing such things alone. In other cases, the unbelieving spouse became actively belligerent over time about spiritual matters. There were also often disagreements about how to raise the kids regarding spiritual matters. For many, instead of their home being a spiritual haven and restful place away from the world with a special person to share it with, some other place became their spiritual haven to get away from spiritual frustration at home. I've heard a few testimonies over the years that it was a romantic or dating relationship with a Christian that caused someone to take an initial interest in the gospel. However, these are less common than the number in which a romantic or dating relationship failed to generate lasting spiritual interest in things. My sense of things is that in the initial stages of falling in love, about the only way those feelings usually start to disappear is to be around that person long enough that either you become bored with them or that their flaws start to frustrate and hurt you enough that the negative feelings start to outweigh the infatuation and positive feelings. At the beginning of a relationship, continued close contact usually just causes feelings of infatuation to grow and those feelings are likely to stick around for awhile.

I'm going to speak heresy here. Early in my Christian walk (first decade or so), I memorized II Thess (in an old Schofield KJV) having picked it primarily because it was relatively short. Also (in some order I've forgotten), Titus, Galatians, Ephesians, and part of Romans in ASV. I basically found that my review time to keep things fresh and perfect became unsustainable. Something I also found was that I rarely ended up quoting anything anywhere. I had this idea that having these things memorized was going to turn me into Mr. Bible answer man who could drop needed quotes in at every occasion but it never happened. What I found was that I usually ended up paraphrasing things and expressing the ideas and pointing out where a particular passage was. Over time, I found that those hours I spent memorizing were much better spent for me reading a book several times and becoming familiar with it in its entirety and then moving onto the next book. I think we each need to determine what works best for us as the person God created us to be. As I found later in life with various personality tests and trait preferences such as the Gallup StrengthsFinder, I am a high level strategic type of thinker. My brain simply processes information in patterns rather than details. It's why I am a physicist and mathematician rather than an accountant. It naturally goes to the forest rather than the trees. It's why I found having read the Bible through in several English versions and three different languages very helpful rather than confusing. It's why I cannot quote a particular verse but can trivially recall the existence of a number of passages which address a particular question. I know Christians for whom Bible memorization is fruitful practice. I've known others for whom it becomes a burden. The real goal is familiarity with scripture of which there are different methods that work better for different people.

One priority we should have is an increasing familiarity with scripture. This includes familiarity with both the breadth and depth of scripture as well as reading reference materials such as bible dictionaries, atlases, histories, and the like. We of course have to start somewhere, with something like reading the gospels being a good place. For new Christians, I think a priority are gospels and acts to become familiar with the life of Jesus and the early church. But at some point for those who've been Christians for many years, we need to have a first hand familiarity with the entirety of scripture. My opinion is that this best comes from having read the entire Bible through on a consistent basis. This does not have to be Genesis through Revelation, but should be a method that takes us past *all* parts of scripture on a regular basis (which might be annual, or every 2 years or whatever). It is familiarity with the breadth of scripture that gives us a solid, sure, and safer base for in-depth study and reading. We are not forced to make a choice between only reading the Bible through or only studying in depth. I have done both in my life and both have their strengths and weaknesses. It is not that one is better than the other. It is that each gives us something that the other cannot. We need familiarity with both the breadth and depth of scripture. Reading the entire Bible provides a necessary framework and structure within which to better conduct in-depth studies. There are two ways to miss things in the Bible. The first is to not study in depth. The second is to not study the breadth. To be blunt, many of the in-depth studies I've been part of (where one book is studied for a year or more) often become fanciful fishing expeditions at times where supposed deep truths being discovered are merely conjectures and opinions rather than solid truths based on the entire counsel of scripture. I cannot recall the number of times I've had to restore some sanity to such studies by merely pointing out the existence of some other passage in some other book that no one else in the room was aware of. This includes studies lead by pastors and teachers with formal bible school or seminary educations who should have known better. The best Bible teachers I've heard over the years are those who regularly read the entirety of scripture on a consistent basis. Their in-depth study is then rooted in the entirety of scripture and is more balanced and more true to the entire Bible.

The challenge is the -eth endings in the KJV are not consistently translated from present active indicative (PAI) verbs in Greek and do not always carry an emphasis of continuity. Sometimes -eth is translated from present participles. Sometimes PAI verbs are not translated with -eth. It also precludes the continuous meaning from being applied to 3rd person plural subjects (he singeth but always they sing and never they singeth) since it only applies to 3rd person singular. In addition, the present active indicative verbs in Greek have multiple uses. Depending on the intermediate or advanced Greek grammar one consults, there are about a dozen different uses of the present tense in Greek only some of which incorporate a "continually" meaning. There are some places where -eth does translate a 3rd person singular PAI Greek verb which does carry a sense of ongoing and continuous action. However it is NOT a general rule that can simply be applied every time an -eth word is read. As I was doing my reading in Matthew today, I had this post in mind so I was using my 8 parallel text NT and was comparing the Greek with the KJV looking for -eth words. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. (Matt 6:11 KJV) This is PAI (present active indicative) in Greek and illustrates one of its uses in historical narratives. This represents an event with a definite time limitation. It could not be understood as "the devil continually left him" since it is a summary of an event that occurred and was done with. Verse 4:5 is similar with two PAI (translated -eth) describing finished events. 19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. 20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him. (Matt 6:19-20) This is another PAI translated with an eth word (sayeth->saith) which cannot carry a meaning of continually said to them because it is a historical event with a definite ending. One common use of PAI verbs in Greek is within historical narratives where action and events are told in a combination of summarized and expanded events. In Matthew 5 in the sermon on the mount, there are inconsistencies. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee... (part of Matt 5:30 KJV) This is a 3rd person PAI that does not include -eth for some reason. 42 Give to him that asketh thee... (part of Matt 5:42 KJV) This is from a present participle and not an indicative verb. There are other such examples of inconsistencies between KJV -eth words and various Greek verbs and continuous aspects of the verb usage. This is only in a couple chapters in one book. Over the years, I've run across many Christians who learned erroneous things about Greek in sermons, articles, books, and other places. Sadly, it seems that many graduates of seminaries and Bible schools who've taken a year or two of Greek (and have never read the entire NT in Greek because they lack the practical skills) take random statements from Greek grammar books that they do not understand very well, put them into a teaching or sermon to make a point, and then someone repeats some variation of that as fact and so on. Somewhere, someone, for some reason (that made sense to them at the time) started the incorrect idea that -eth words are something special the KJV translators used to specially signify continuous action. This is basically the Christian equivalent of an urban legend that pops up in random places and gets passed on. It keeps going because few people have the background to question it. I think the article quoted in the OP has some neat insights in it regarding actual grape harvesting and how God works in our individual lives. The inclusion of things like KJV -eth words and a very conjectural translation of Greek (at odds with dozens of widely accepted translation teams) distracts away from this.

--------Reading Efficiency ----------- Something that no one ever talks about but is very important is how good of a reader are you? The reality is that people emerge from formal education with vastly different levels of reading skills. Some people have learned to be efficient readers and others have not. This is not related to intelligence or education (except for vocabulary). Efficient reading consists of effective eye movements to take in information. We can only see something clearly when our eye pauses and fixates for a split second. We cannot see a page as our eyes are moving. Inefficient reading consists of looking at one word at a time. Efficient reading consists of reading pairs or triplets of words. Our eyes can only move so quickly, if we stop at each word, there is an inherent limit to reading speed on the order of perhaps a few hundred words per minute. However, if we are reading two or three words per eye fixation, we can read at 2 to 3 times the rate of one word per eye fix. I'll put asterisks and parentheses into a couple sentences to illustrate what I mean. The stars are where inefficient readers and more efficient readers would be looking. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. (T*he) (Lo*rd) (i*s) (m*y) (shep*herd). ( I*) (sh*all) (n*ot) (wa*nt). (9 eye fixes) (The * Lord) (is * my) (shep*herd). (I * shall) (not * want). (5 eye fixes) (The Lo*rd is) (my shep*herd). (I shall * not want). (3 eye fixes) As one practices reading efficiently, one gains the ability to take in multiple words and short phrases at once. It's easier to comprehend because you don't have to hold a number of words in memory to put together into a sentence later. You take in a short sentence in perhaps 1 or 2 eye fixes as you've practiced this. I've heard inefficient readers comment about sometimes having to re-read a sentence a few times to understand it because they forgot what the beginning was by the time they reached the end. Efficient reading is not about trying to be fast. It is about being efficient and using as few eyes fixes as possible to understand what is being read. Increased speed and increased comprehension is merely a byproduct of efficiency. The Bible is a long book. Having good reading skills is a huge help when reading it. ------Pick a version that will work best for you --------- My opinion is to pick a version that you find easy and comfortable to read. The purpose of reading the entire Bible through is not to master each verse but to see the entire forest rather than focusing on the bark on one branch on one tree. Being able to comfortably read some number of pages per day will make it easier to read the entire Bible than if you are somewhat frustrated and struggling with a particular translation. Often a less literal translation is a better choice for reading the Bible through than a very literal version. Most people can read 10 pages of a version such as the NIV more quickly and with more comprehension than a more literal version with more archaic English usage such the KJV. --------Decide what to do with tedious sections --------- One thing to note is some sections of the Bible are tedious and boring to read. For example, the first nine chapters of I Chronicles is mostly genealogies and names. You'll find a few interesting things such as that Joab and his brothers were David's cousins, but for the most part, it's a bunch of names that never appear anywhere else. You have to decide if you are going to feel guilty for skipping those parts. Some people feel strongly that they will not skip a single word in the Bible. Others are more concerned with getting through the entire Bible for an overview. I've read the genealogies in various OT books multiple times and there is little there that applies anywhere else. Depending on your personal interests, some sections of the law and the several chapters in Exodus describing the tabernacle can get somewhat tedious to read as well. My opinion is that reading the Bible through is (as phrased above) a chance to see the entire forest rather than worrying about studying the leaves and bark of a particular tree. If there are sections (perhaps such as I Chronicles 1-9) that are slowing you down and sapping your enthusiasm, my advice is to just skim them. For example, in Genesis 36, only verses 6-8 really have much bearing on the larger story. This is where efficient reading skills can help immensely. If you can comfortably switch between a more detailed reading mode and skimming, using skimming on sections such as genealogies can help you get through them quickly but allow you to catch the general gist of things as well as notice special names such as "David" when going through them. --------Learn what works for you ----------- It is important to note that everyone is different and we all are at different seasons in our lives. What is good for one of us at one point in our lives may or may not be at other times or for other people. There've been times I've read the Bible through in a month (which was when I could dedicate a couple hours of reading every night). This gave me a great overview of the Bible. For example, reading I and II Kings through in a day brings a unity and coherence to understanding that you wouldn't get reading them a few chapters at a time over the course of a few months. There are times I've read the Bible through in a year and on 6 month types of schedules. I've also at times separated my OT and NT reading onto parallel schedules where I did the OT on a one year basis and the NT on a 4 month basis which was about the same number of pages in each per day. There are times when I've focused on a single book (reading it through once per day for about a month). It is very important to note that there is not a "right" way and a "wrong" way. There is a way "which is working good for you right now" and a way "which is not working so good for you right now." This can very well change over time. At one time in my life, I read the Bible through in a month for 3 months in a row and got a lot out of it. Indeed, much of my current Bible knowledge is rooted in the foundations of that 3 months. However, on the 4th month, I crashed and burned and gave up trying to get through the Bible about 6 months later perhaps about 1/3 of the way through the OT. What I did not realize is that there was a season in my life where once per month was fruitful and that I needed to move to a different season. I've since learned that I need to adapt to what is working for me. I'm simply a person who can throw unsustainable amounts of effort at something for a limited time and gain much from it. After that, I need a break and then need to find the next thing to throw myself into. I had a pastor who for close to 20 years has read the one-year Bible like clockwork. Every morning he gets up, makes a cup of coffee, and reads the daily readings to being his prayers and devotions. It has worked great for him. Something like that has rarely worked for me. I have definite seasons in life that change that I've learned to adapt to. Each of us is different and we need to learn what works best for us rather than forcing ourselves into someone else's patterns. A reasonable starting point for you might just be to start in Genesis, pick some amount of time per day (perhaps 30 minutes) at the same time each day, and just read and put in a book marker when the 30 minutes is up. Repeat the next day. After a few weeks, you will probably have a good idea if this is working. If you are excited and cannot wait to start reading the next day, this is a good plan for you. If you are starting to have to force yourself to do it, it's probably not a good reading plan and something else might be better. Some Bible reading schedules mix readings from various books and sections (which some people just love and other people like me find frustrating). The main thing is to monitor how it is working for you. If it becomes something you have to force yourself to do (and your predominant feelings are frustration and guilt), you need to find a different plan that is fruitful for you. You might hit something great the first time. You might have a few false starts trying to find a good plan. This is not a reflection of you being a good Christian or not, it is simply learning how to best walk with God as the unique person He created you to be.

As a follow up to my previous post which is basically a critique of the analysis, I'd like to add that I think that the experience with grape tending could be the basis for a great sermon, article, or devotional. The entire process described is a great analogy for how God works in our lives individually. Drop out the attempts to use Greek and make theological points, and turn this into an encouraging devotional type of teaching, and it could be an outstanding one. It's a nice concrete analogy people could envision of how God works at pruning and removing things out of our lives that are drawing time and energy away from the things that really bear fruit. Those parts of the original post which were focused on how it applies to us individually are insightful and helpful. Rewriting this focused on practical application and encouragement for us individually would probably yield a very good devotional that could be published someplace.

This statement is nonsense. The suffix -eth is simply the 3rd person singular present tense verb ending in older forms of English. For more detail, a simple search for "Middle English verb conjugation" will give a number of hits. Here's a link including some tables. http://www.nativlang.com/middle-english/middle-english-grammar.php If one looks carefully at the KJV usage, verbs which end in -eth will be associated with the 3rd person such as he or she singeth and never thou singeth or I singeth or they singeth. It's thou singest and never thou singeth. This is just how older forms of English conjugated present tense verb endings. This would be like saying that adding an -s to a verb in modern English changes verb function and that "they sing" and "he sings" means that he continually sings because of the -s added at the end whereas "they sing" isn't continually because of the lack of the s. This is very misleading. With regard to translation of αιρω in John 15:2a as "lift up" rather than "take away" or "cut off", pretty much every English translation uses some variation of take away or cut off. I did a search on biblegateway.com looking at every version of John 15:2 in English. Only the Passion Translation (which is really a paraphrase) says "lift up" in the sense the article in the OP claims. I did a search on all Spanish versions on the site and all either use cortar (cut) or quitar (remove or take away). The verb αιρω does have different uses in Greek including both "lift up" and "take away". However, these uses are usually fairly clear. When all but one of dozens of translation teams in two different languages agree on a verb's usage in a particular verse and only a single paraphrase disagrees, I think one should have a very good reason as to why they are all wrong beyond just wanting the verse to say something different. Strictly speaking, the primary meaning of καθαιρω is to clean or purify. It has derived uses in classical Greek in medicine and agriculture for specific tasks such cleaning wounds, cleaning up blood, and cleaning up trees and bushes of dead materials. In this verse, I think the modern English word that carries the closest meaning is prune (which is what most translators choose). I'd note that the older English word purge basically meant to wash or clean which is a direct translation of the primary meaning of the word. This is interesting and I didn't know this. But ultimately, saying that the runners correspond to those who never knew Christ and were never going to bear fruit is reading one's prior beliefs into this verse (and surrounding ones) to make it say what they want it to say. Overall, I think it is quite a stretch to make John 15:2 read like the Passion Translation "He cares for the branches connected to me by lifting and propping up the fruitless branches and pruning every fruitful branch to yield a greater harvest." (John 15:2 TPT) I don't think that there is any escaping that the meaning of the passage is pretty much what it says in the vast majority of translations where the fruitless branches are taken away. I normally try to stay clear of the OSAS debates on this site. However, I simply could not let the errors and misleading things in this very sloppy analysis of this verse go because of the poor example it sets. Ultimately, this analysis is saying that only the Passion Translation has this verse correct in support of the conclusion and that the vast majority of other translations are misleading. In addition, it seems to read prior opinions into the symbolism of this and surrounding verses and then essentially appropriate biblical authority for the opinion. I would like to emphasize too that this article has been quoted and is not the product of the original poster of this thread.

I'd like to clarify a few points that are unclear to me. Can a person be born-again without being baptized by immersion in water in Jesus' name? Can a person be born-again without speaking in tongues? I'm unsure from the OP if these are being given as requirements for salvation, or if they are given as a description of what frequently happened in Acts accompanying salvation. I've known many charismatic and pentecostal Christians and am fairly familiar with their teachings on various things. Using John 3:3 as a proof text for initial speaking in tongues accompanying salvation is a new one on me as is likening initial speaking in tongues with a baby starting to cry. Many of the charismatics and pentecostals I know (this is in the U.S.) testify to a large gap in time (often month or years) between when they were born again and when they were water baptized and when they first spoke in tongues.

@Jostler I appreciate your reply. Many years ago (over a 1/3 of a century ago, time flies), I used to be a heretic hunter (as I've come to describe it). It is a seductive feeling of importance finding secret hidden evil that no one else notices and protecting the flock. It is addictive. The excitement of one discovery leads to another and then another. And then when just a few people ooh and ahh over your spiritual acuity and sensitivity, it feeds the ego and makes you feel special. After time, it sadly becomes less about being in the light seeing God than spending more time digging in the dirt looking for the devil. I like the way you phrased it: "I feel He's urged me to just let Him worry about the heretics and keep my focus on learning what the truth is and learning to speak it in love. Many ARE being deceived in our day but I think the main counter is being a light, not boasting against the darkness." I have a serious sense of relief that I went through this before the internet or I'd have likely had a huge internet site dedicated to such things and a huge embarrassing published set of articles still floating around in cyberspace rather than a huge set of embarrassing conversations that most people have now likely forgotten. One of the things that has brought balance for me is the path God has had me walk. I've spent years of time in evangelical churches and ministries of most flavors and many flavors of mainline churches (notable exceptions being RCC and Eastern orthodox though I've known individual Christians from those backgrounds). It's given me a chance to get to know and observe evangelicals with a wide range of beliefs. I've also gotten to know many in the body of Christ (meaning that in a born-again sense) who God has ministering in mainline churches. This means when I hear accusations against various denominations or churches or ministries, it is often an accusation against people, ministries, and churches that I've gotten to see up close and personal for myself. This often gives me a basis for evaluating the accusations. Real fruit of the Spirit in people's everyday lives, actions, and words is pretty hard to counterfeit for any length of time. As a brief comment FWIW, many years ago I learned some good lessons in the aftermath of the Jimmy Swaggart and PTL scandals. A few years after the PTL scandal, I was teaching an adult Sunday School class and spent some time on a diatribe against PTL and other such ministries. Afterwards, my pastor pulled me to one side and pointed out a man I didn't know very well (and who incidentally never attended one of my classes again). It turns out he'd been a full-time prayer and ministry counselor at PTL for a number of years. It was a real ministry where people were being saved and growing in Christ. He and others ministering there were shocked and devastated as their opportunity to minister disappeared in a day, their fellowship and ministry connections with each other were abruptly terminated, and he then had to face the stigma of being labeled a dumb gullible fool who fell for the PTL scam. Similarly, I made some disparaging comment about Jimmy Swaggart once and a friend from Panama filled me in on many things I didn't know. Swaggart ministries included a number of lifelong missionaries and leaders and ministers from a number of churches and they had a large Spanish speaking ministry in central and south America. For years prior as it was related to me, in many places, their radio broadcasts and live events were the first time many people heard the gospel in that part of the world. When Swaggart refused to step down and simply hand over leadership to one of the many capable leaders in the ministry , the ministry largely disintegrated as most of these ministers then left. I came to see that there is often a big difference between the visible leaders and the often large amount of behind the scenes ministry that is going on not directly related to the leaders.

FWIW, here's how I approach things like this to determine what I think about them. The first thing I try to do is find more context and background. It took me awhile, but I managed to find that this sermon is from 2013 or so and many people jumped on this line (at about 1:30 in the video) as proving Houston was teaching Christianity and Islam were somehow compatible. Here's a clarification he issued about this. Recently there have been false claims on social media that I believe Muslims and Christians worship the same God. This is incorrect. Those propagating these false statements have taken one sentence from an entire message out of context. I realize that some critics WANT to believe their interpretation, but my prayer is that reasonable people will take my comment in context, accept my acknowledgment that I did not explain this sentence as I intended, and judge me on 40 years of pointing people to Jesus - not one sentence. For further clarification, here is the context of my message:King David said about His God in Psalm 119:68, "you ARE good and you DO good". Who David believed God IS, determined what He Believed God DOES. The spirit of the message was exactly the opposite of what some critics are claiming. If you listened to the message in its entirety, my point was that; who a Muslim extremist believes God is, determines what they believe God does, and what they believe God loves. I was contrasting their harsh perspective of (their) god, with who I believe God is - (a Loving God, the Father of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ) and therefore what I believe God does and what I believe God loves. The ONE sentence that critics are drawing huge conclusions from was clearly a (clumsy) way of me explaining that though both Christians and Muslims believe they serve the God of Abraham, they are very DIFFERENT 'entities' or 'deities' in both nature and action.I have always believed and will always believe that there is only one Way to God and that is through His Son, Christ Jesus. I also believe that anyone – irrespective of their religious upbringing, culture or background – can find grace, peace, freedom and eternal life through Christ. Brian Houston Second, I looked at the people creating the headline, the insinuation, and the accusations for this excerpt. Here is the blurb on this YouTube video. "Do Christians serve and worship Allah? Hillsong heretic Brian Houston says we do, click to hear him say it! So you are a follower of Hillsong Church, are you? Like to purchase all their Grammy award-winning “christian” music to ‘support their ministry’, is it? Well, then you might want to know that the founder of Hillsong United, Brian Houston, believes and preaches that Christians and Muslims ‘serve the same God’. Oh heresy, thy name is Chrislam." It is a group with a web presence of https://www.nowtheendbegins.com which has a number of articles on various topics. I skimmed around to get a sense of what they were about. As far as I can tell, the site is primarily the work of one individual. From the doctrinal statement and testimony, he seems to be a Christian with beliefs mostly in the mainstream of evangelicals along with some distinctives. He's OSAS, KJV-only, staunchly pre-trib, heavily anti-RCC (having been raised RCC and attending RCC schools), and as far as I can tell, anti-charismatic and anti-pentecostal. I'm not sure if this headline reflects an actual belief that the current pope is the antichrist or is just clickbait: "CONFIRMING HIS ROLE AS ANTICHRIST, POPE FRANCIS SPITS IN JESUS’ FACE AND DEFIANTLY DECLARES THAT ‘THERE IS NO HELL” AND NO PUNISHMENT" He also seems to be into some conspiracy type stuff and heavily political. Indeed, most his Youtube videos are political topics. His statement is that his site is meant to be for end times news and KJV teaching. My impression is of an individual so focused on everything bad that is happening in the world and increasing corruption in the last days Laodicean church that he sees it everywhere and often assumes the worst about whomever he's writing about. Here's his comment about Houston's clarification: UPDATE MARCH 29/2014: THIS STORY CAUSED AN IMPACT HEARD ’ROUND THE WORLD, AND WITHIN 24 HOURS IT FORCED HILLSONG UNITED PASTOR BRIAN HOUSTON TO ISSUE THE STANDARD QUICKIE DENIAL OF THE THINGS HE SAID IN THE VIDEO CLIP BELOW. IN INTEREST OF FAIRNESS, CLICK HERE TO READ THE FULL CONTEXT HIS DENIAL OF CHRISLAM. YOU CAN MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND IF HE IS SINCERE OR NOT, AND IF HE MEANT WHAT HE ORIGINALLY SAID OR NOT. WE TAKE IT AT HIS WORD AND BELIEVE HE MEANT WHAT HE SAID IN THE VIDEO SEGMENT BELOW. THE STORY STANDS. In other words, this person chooses to assume that a single line in a long sermon is to be taken as Houston's definitive belief about Islam and Christianity being compatible and not Houston's more detailed clarification in which he denies that. So, in this case, I'm willing to take Houston's clarification at face value. Why? Because in the 5 or 6 years since (and prior to that), he does not have a track record of constantly teaching Allah is God or that Jesus is not God and the only way to be saved. The only proof given that I could find on the NTEB site that he is a heretic about Islam consists of a single sentence in a sermon from 5 years ago. Why isn't there a video with dozens instances of him explicitly talking about Allah from the pulpit over a several year period? If there were more clear instances, I'm sure that site and others would have a comprehensive list of them all. To me, the evidence points more that this was a single poorly spoken line in a long sermon than a hidden agenda on his part to merge Christianity and Islam. I listened to the entire video a few times myself. I'm willing to chalk this one up to saying something ambiguously while speaking extemporaneously. Now, to be clear. I am not making a blanket statement about my support or lack thereof for Brian Houston or Hillsong on other matters. I am looking at this single instance and considering a single question. Does Houston teach that Islam and Christianity are compatible and that Jesus is not the only way to God? As far as I can tell, he has standard Christian beliefs about Jesus Christ and does not believe that Islam is some alternate route to God. A single sentence from one sermon out of hundreds or more over decades is not convincing to me. A complete sermon or book talking about how Islam and Christianity are compatible and explicitly describing such things unambiguously would be clear evidence to me. The single sentence I heard in the couple minute context seems to me more likely to be a momentary lapse in clarity. If he was really teaching Islam, I think it would show up a lot more clearly and obviously than was presented.

You've already recognized the situation and started to address it which is a huge first step. Many people don't and end up in a bad situation. My sense of things is that many inappropriate relationships between Christians start off healthy as encouraging friendships and then start to become more intimate emotionally with some degree of infatuation starting to kick in. No pastor ever met a church secretary with the intention of leaving his wife for her, but spending much time in close proximity can lead to a gradual deepening of feelings from colleague to friend to close friend to best friend. This is especially true if one or both is at a low point in life and if being around that person is a high point of their day. My guess is that many Christians have found themselves in the situation of having developed deep emotional ties with someone who is not their spouse or cannot be their spouse. My sense is that this usually ends up being a deeply confusing situation because it is a mixture of a strong friendship with a good person and a very unhealthy relationship with romantic overtones. The problem with relationships like this is that changing our emotions tends to be like the rudder of a large ocean going ship. You turn the rudder to one side and it takes awhile to complete a turn to a new direction. It will probably take awhile for these feelings to die down. Depending on how deep these feelings are, it may take a long time to die down. I recall one marriage counselor recommending that the only way to restore a marriage after an affair is to cut all ties with the other person because the feelings will always be there waiting to re-emerge stronger than ever after an absence. I think this is why it is important for Christians to have a few strong same-sex friendships so that our need for fellowship, sharing, and emotional attachments can be met without the potential of infatuation and romantic ties developing with someone we cannot be married to.

Last winter, just before a handful of very active posters who were causing many problems were banned, there was a thread basically reiterating the Worthy Experiment as being a site where Christians of all backgrounds could come together to be united in Christ and minister to each other and those who came to the site. The old Moravian motto "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things love" was reiterated as being a goal for the site. It was clear that there was general agreement that the way we express ourselves and behave toward others is every bit as important as being doctrinally correct. This description of WCF as being committed to propagation of each and every odd idea anyone wanted to post seemed to be a general opinion of those banned. They seemed to be frustrated that each and every thing they disagreed with was not immediately deleted and banned and took it upon themselves to protect WCF from the hordes of pagans and heretics they saw. This description of WCF as being open for anyone and everyone to say whatever they wanted sounds like how the banned posters would criticize the admins and mods and misrepresent what they were saying. I never heard anything like that in what I was reading in posts from admins and mods.

Here's a link to a 2004 post from George explaining the "Worthy Experiment". The reality is that hurting and searching people do stop by here needing God's touch in their lives. Perhaps some on this site can take the cavalier attitude of "Tough luck! The Christians on this site aren't here to minister to you! Go away because we are busy doing whatever it is we are doing!" I simply cannot. God has wired me in such a way that I cannot leave anyone behind. I see every poster to this site, every lurker on this site, whatever their current spiritual condition, as a creation of God that Jesus Christ died for. Every person with anything to do with this site is a unique treasure intended by God to become a holy sanctified person that will uniquely reflect God's glory to the world. The body of Christ is stronger when each member that stops by is ministered to rather than chased off. The body of Christ is stronger when potential members of the body of Christ stop by and can encounter obvious living examples of people whose lives have been transformed by God. There have been people saved through the ministry of this site. I'm under no illusions that I or any individual here can do more than minister in a limited way to a limited subset of people who visit this site. But we can touch those that God does bring across our path. We can help others here in their ministry by helping the environment and tone of the interactions. We can and should always be godly examples and show the world a different way of living. People on the internet should stop here and be stunned by how different it is here because God's Spirit has transformed us so much that we act and speak differently than most people they see on the internet. Words fail me when I hear a Christian basically saying there is no hope that this site can ever become anything more than a typical internet cesspool and that we shouldn't even try. I simply cannot accept that God's Holy Spirit is too impotent to do something that is earthshakingly different on a site like this that it cannot become a beacon of light, love, compassion, gentleness, wisdom, kindness, and exemplify fruit of the Spirit that sets an example for what a group of Christians on the internet can be like. We can be different from the world. We can stand out. Should the Lord tarry and His return be a century from now, I want to be part of a legacy that Christians a century from now look back at and call blessed. I'd love to see communities of online believers spring up where love, unity, holiness, and apparent fruit of the Spirit are a way of life and conduct. This site could become such a place and be an example of how to do it.

In threads targeted toward such topics, I agree. What I (and I think others) are concerned about is when those topics start spilling over into advice, praise, prayer, testimony, and other threads and start involving and drowning out people who want nothing to do with the topic. I recall as a kid, our school officially had a no snowball throwing rule which was not really enforced when it was the boys out in the woods or the softball field away from everyone else. No one complained about (nor admitted to) getting hurt when it did happen. If you didn't want to get hit by a snowball, then you stayed away. Then one day some boys started chasing each other beyond the bounds of the unofficial snowball fight areas. A stray snowball hit a poor girl playing jump rope with friends breaking her glasses and giving her a bloody nose (or at least that's the version that circulated since few of us actually saw it). Snowball throwing then became a "lose recess privileges for awhile" type of offense that was strictly enforced. That's what I see happening to some people on here and what some of us are concerned about. Some Christian is innocently jumping rope with their friends and gets plastered in the face with a snowball meant for someone else. What makes it worse (at least in my opinion) is when some people start lecturing the person with a bloody nose about how it's a great opportunity to practice forgiveness and turning the other cheek while they are still picking up their broken glasses and trying to prevent blood from dripping on their clothes. Some people come to this site having been hammered with snowballs in the face their entire life. In theory, it'd be great if they were completely healed of past trauma, fully formed and mature in Christ, and able to easily forgive and readily turn the other cheek to get hit by another snowball. But the reality is that people come to this site at various stages of spiritual development and in different situations in their life. Some are simply not in a position to take many snowballs in the face without walking away in tears for a safer place. Ten years ago, I would have left this site within a few days of joining. That's a statement I make in all seriousness. I had some things in my life that needed some deep healing which God has done. At that time, I could not handle heated confrontation which is what I ran into with my first few posts in an advice thread being tag teamed by a handful of people who forcefully disagreed and upvoted each other's posts. Today, I could comfortably go toe to toe with most anyone on this site (but rarely choose to do so since I choose my battles very carefully). Ten years ago, I'd have been run off in the first few days and I'd have been a Christian for 30+ years at that point. Healthy debate in the proper context and with fruit of the Spirit in abundant evidence is one thing. It helps us grow and become stronger. It is another matter completely when a handful of people forming two cliques (that more or less believe those in the other clique are heretics) insist on interjecting their fight into other threads and drawing innocent people into it. I think that is what some people are concerned about and getting frustrated with. If people want to have their snowball fights, fine. They can create threads dedicated to those snowball fights and have at it. Some of us just have the attitude that the snowballs should be kept out of threads where people are jumping rope.

There's a big difference between some quick sincere advice or encouragement and a long lecture on everything someone is doing wrong. I tend to treat posts like that the same as I would a prayer meeting in person, most time in prayer, but the occasional helpful words being a form of God's ministry to people.

FWIW As near as I can tell, she was a victim of crossfire in the ongoing OSAS war. She made a very nice OP. Then a poster made a statement that took her OP to be supportive of one side in the OSAS war, another poster took exception with that, and a couple tit for tats later a nicely started thread had some rude things said which were ambiguous about who they referred to. As far as I can tell, those posts have now been deleted. I'm also disappointed in the people who upvote those types of posts and keep egging on and encouraging such behavior because the posts happen to support their doctrinal views on the matter. When I see someone upvote a post that is some combination of goading and hijacking a thread for a doctrinal debate, I simply lose some of my respect for them. Such upvotes are basically saying that being doctrinally correct on that matter is more important than behaving in a Christian manner. It's one thing to express our feelings and talk about and celebrate what God has done in our lives. It's another to intentionally express things in doctrinally inflammatory ways to explicitly step on toes and provoke an argument. If I was sitting outside enjoying watching a sunset with a flat-earth believing Christian, I'd simply comment on how beautiful the sunset was and maybe point out different colors or things or comment on the beauty of God's creation. I'd refrain from commenting on how our use of the word sunset was strange since the earth's rotation was causing the sun to go out of view. Why? There'd be little point to it and about all I'd be accomplishing is making the FE Christian not want to ever watch another sunset with me. Now, if they sincerely raised the topic sincerely asking me why I thought the earth was a globe, we could perhaps explain our views to each other. But if they lead off with "isn't it amazing how the devil has convinced so many people the earth is a globe" and keep forcing the issue, I'd probably make it a point to avoid watching a sunset with them again. We could choose to either enjoy watching many sunsets together in the beauty of God's creation, or we could make each other so uncomfortable we couldn't enjoy watching a simple sunset. It's our choice. We can enjoy the sunset in its beauty or we can argue that a proper understanding of how a sunset works is essential for enjoying watching it.

To put this post in context, I'm in my mid 50s, have been married for over 30 years, have adult children and a few grandkids in the toddler stage. Your life is going to turn upside down and a lot is going to change including your wife and your relationship. Some changes will bring awesome new things into your life. Some changes will be frustrating and painful at times. Keep your relationship with your wife alive and well. You will both change over the years and your relationship must change with you. A few decades from now, the kids will be heading out of the house, and many couples realize that they are left alone with a stranger. Take time to enjoy each moment; they will not come again. Life can become hectic and fly by in a rush. Each stage of a child's life has particular joys and novelties and frustrations. Don't let the frustrations stop you from enjoying the novelty and good parts. Truly, before you know it, you'll have gray hair and your kids will be grown and having kids of their own. Given the choice between doing things *for* your kids or doing things *with* your kids, opt for doing things *with* your kids whenever you can. Each child is a unique treasure of God. Indeed, I'd say that about everyone. This means each of your kids is going to have their own walk with God that needs to be uniquely theirs. Each will have their own personality, passions, interests, and strengths. The faster they gain confidence walking in life as the person God created them to be, the faster they will become who God intended them to be. They cannot live off of your relationship with God. They need to develop their own. You have to strike a balance between protecting them from some things but letting them exercise and grow and become strong enough to protect themselves. Too little protection and they can end up with serious lifelong injuries (be they physical, emotional or spiritual). Too much protection and they will remain weak and helpless. What works great with one child can stifle another. What encourages one might discourage another. You need to have a relationship with each child marked by love, compassion, respect, and confidence to help them navigate life. Such a relationship starts from the time they are little and takes years to build. Find some solid mature older Christian men in your life to hang around and learn from, especially those who have solid marriages after decades. You become like the people you hang around with. It's of course good to have people your own age range and family situation to fellowship with, but often you are all in the same boat with the same level of ignorance about life. Sadly, our modern western culture has largely lost the long-term stability that comes with multiple generations of families and neighbors and friends in close contact. We now grow up generationally isolated and often pick up much of what we know of life from our peers who don't know much more than we do. Take care of yourself and grow as a man and as a Christian. If you haven't read them, I'd recommend any man read the John Eldredge books "Wild at Heart" and "Waking the Dead". We live in a world where few men have really learned what it is to be a man. You will bring strength and stability to your wife and children and family relationships by being a strong good man. Your biggest influence on your family is who you are as a man and your relationship with each person in your family. Become a man of prayer and the Bible. Find that quiet place in the midst of the hubbub of the world around you that you can escape to for a time every day. That looks different in all of us. I know some for whom the first 30 minutes of every day is spent in devotions; some for whom this is at night. Others find prayer something best spread throughout the day. Some read 5 or 6 pages of their Bible every day; others might spent months slowly reading and meditating over one book. Some use the one-year Bible and read through the Bible every year. Depending on you and the season of life you are in, prayer, Bible reading, fellowship with other men who are Christians, ministry, and other such things can take different forms. Don't force yourself to do something because you feel guilt or obligation but figure out how God has made you to best walk with Him. Don't walk someone else's walk with Him but learn to walk your own. You'll then be in a much better position to help your children learn to walk their own walk with God. You'll have regrets. You'll make mistakes. You'll look back and realize there are many things you'd do differently. Apologize when you're wrong, fix what you can, and learn from it. Ideally, learn from other people's mistakes rather than making your own (hence my advice to spend some time hanging around with older mature Christian men who've made plenty of mistakes themselves and seen even more mistakes in others around them). In the long run, it is the quality of what kind of man and Christian you are and the time you have spent building a good relationship with each of them that has the biggest influence on your kids. You're in for a rollercoaster of fun, thrills, pain, worry, and satisfaction. Raising kids is a grand adventure in a wild world full of beauty and dangers. They'll pick up bruises and scars but smell flowers, climb trees, and see awesome things around them. It's not about being safe and secure from anything that can go wrong, but being free to live and breathe deeply and learning to navigate and enjoy the world around them. It's about helping them to find their own walk with God in the grand adventure of life that He had planned for each of them.