Dan. 9:27

[mizzdy]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

[Guest]

Heads

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 9:27

Up Brothers

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

Matthew 24:15

That Ain't Our LORD

"And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

Mark 13:21-22

Our God Who Warns Us Of This Evil Pretender

"I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

John 5:43

And Who Came Down From Heaven Above To Die To Save Whosoever Believes

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

[EricH]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

I don't believe Jesus is being talked about in Daniel 9:27. I believe it is the antichrist whow ill make a peace treaty (covenant with Israel) in the middle of the tribulation.

[glorywatch]

Daniel 9:27 is talking about Antichrist (see verse 26). The covenant referred to is the one which antichrist makes with the Jews. He will break that covenant of peace. Matthew 24:15 gives reference to this as well.

[Fraught]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

the general opinion has always been that the scripture is referring to the antichrist. you have caused me, for the first time, to read it as if it were Messiah. okay - so if he 'confirmed the covenant, he said He is the fulfillment of the law. if he caused the sacrifice to cease, He did determine that the temple would be destroyed. third, the desolate could be the jewish people. they have been beset by desolations. i don't know yet why this interpretation is so far-fetched.

[BlindSeeker]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and

I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David

.

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Ps 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

10 For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.

Ps 17:15 As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness.

Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for He shall receive me. Selah.

Ac 13:34

And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David

.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through

the blood of the everlasting covenant

,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

Edited March 18, 2009 by BlindSeeker

[Paul 84]

Mizzdy, on Christ being represented in Daniel 9:27. First remember Luke speaks of Jesus ministry beginning when he was 30(Luke 3:23) this ministry lasted about 3 and a half years, as Jesus earthly ministry was coming to an end He institutes the LORD Supper in Matthew 26:27-30; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:17-20. When Jesus instituted this Supper He said "This cup is the new testament (or one could say new covenant, see Hebrews 10:12-18) in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20 see also Mark 14:24; Matthew 26:27). Basically Jesus death and resurrection from the dead, for our sins gives us this New Testament or New Covenant. "(3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures; (4) And that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (I Corinthians 15:3-4) Paul wrote to the Corinthians more on the New Testament (I Corinthians 11:24-25). So this would be the covenant that Christ made with the Church.

On the rest of the week this was a timetable God gave to the Jews to come to Christ (Daniel 9:24) before the message would be given to the Gentiles. For a gentile woman, early in Jesus earthly ministry came to have a demon cast out of her daughter, but Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:22-25) Remeber Paul began the ministry to the Gentiles in Acts 13 but the Jews were still on God timetable until Paul announcement in Acts 18:6 "And when they opposed themselves, (the Jews from verse 5) and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your heads; I am clean from henceforth I WILL GO UNTO THE GENTILES." This is when I believe the Seventy weeks ended.

As for the abmonations of desolation spoken of by Daniel, God gave the Jews nearly forty years after Jesus death, before He destroy a Temple that was a Abomination, what made the Temple an abomination, they continue to offer sacrifices after Jesus said, "It is finished" (John 19:30) speaking of His Sacrifice. Plus the writer of Hebrews in a very misunderstood passage spoke of this Hebrews 10:12,14,29. I really think Hebrews chapter 9-10 speaks on this. Remember in Daniel 9:27 the last part of the verse says, "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." The Temple didn't have to be destroy in the Seventy week frame, for God wrath was still to be fulfilled against the Jewish people for rejecting their Messiah our LORD JESUS CHRIST (I Thessalonians 2:14-16).

But God has not forsaken the Jewish people for Paul wrote of this "(25) For I would not, Brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" (Romans 11:25-26 see Isaiah 59:20) Hopefully this answer your question.

[mizzdy]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

the general opinion has always been that the scripture is referring to the antichrist. you have caused me, for the first time, to read it as if it were Messiah. okay - so if he 'confirmed the covenant, he said He is the fulfillment of the law. if he caused the sacrifice to cease, He did determine that the temple would be destroyed. third, the desolate could be the jewish people. they have been beset by desolations. i don't know yet why this interpretation is so far-fetched.

I know some don't read the lxx but I use it for reference etc and this is how it is written there;

And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offerings shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.

I do see this as being the Messiah who is cut off after all it does say the Messiah the prince is the one who will be cut off so I don't understand why it is such a far stretch to say that he is the one who confirms a covenant. Perhaps it has dual meanings? If it is a leader or the antichrist then that person would have had to have a covenant or treaty with Israel before hand in order to 'confirm' it again. Which could mean a few nations who now have treaties with the nation of Israel leading many to think that it could be a visible leader of one of those nations. But then again isn't Israel who is spoken of not the nation of today but the tribes who went into captivity, if thats the case then it seems that Christ was confirming a covenant with a multitude of peoples and that may be the grafting in of the gentiles. One of the reference verses about the "many for one week" is Isaiah 42:6 that says "...I will keep you and give You as a covenant to the people, And as a light to the Gentiles" so it does seem this is about Christ and not the antichrist. But I am still searching and studying yet it makes much more sense when I do read it as the Messiah and not the antichrist.

[mizzdy]

Mizzdy, on Christ being represented in Daniel 9:27. First remember Luke speaks of Jesus ministry beginning when he was 30(Luke 3:23) this ministry lasted about 3 and a half years, as Jesus earthly ministry was coming to an end He institutes the LORD Supper in Matthew 26:27-30; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:17-20. When Jesus instituted this Supper He said "This cup is the new testament (or one could say new covenant, see Hebrews 10:12-18) in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20 see also Mark 14:24; Matthew 26:27). Basically Jesus death and resurrection from the dead, for our sins gives us this New Testament or New Covenant. "(3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures; (4) And that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (I Corinthians 15:3-4) Paul wrote to the Corinthians more on the New Testament (I Corinthians 11:24-25). So this would be the covenant that Christ made with the Church.

On the rest of the week this was a timetable God gave to the Jews to come to Christ (Daniel 9:24) before the message would be given to the Gentiles. For a gentile woman, early in Jesus earthly ministry came to have a demon cast out of her daughter, but Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:22-25) Remeber Paul began the ministry to the Gentiles in Acts 13 but the Jews were still on God timetable until Paul announcement in Acts 18:6 "And when they opposed themselves, (the Jews from verse 5) and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your heads; I am clean from henceforth I WILL GO UNTO THE GENTILES." This is when I believe the Seventy weeks ended.

As for the abmonations of desolation spoken of by Daniel, God gave the Jews nearly forty years after Jesus death, before He destroy a Temple that was a Abomination, what made the Temple an abomination, they continue to offer sacrifices after Jesus said, "It is finished" (John 19:30) speaking of His Sacrifice. Plus the writer of Hebrews in a very misunderstood passage spoke of this Hebrews 10:12,14,29. I really think Hebrews chapter 9-10 speaks on this. Remember in Daniel 9:27 the last part of the verse says, "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." The Temple didn't have to be destroy in the Seventy week frame, for God wrath was still to be fulfilled against the Jewish people for rejecting their Messiah our LORD JESUS CHRIST (I Thessalonians 2:14-16).

But God has not forsaken the Jewish people for Paul wrote of this "(25) For I would not, Brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" (Romans 11:25-26 see Isaiah 59:20) Hopefully this answer your question.

Actually it hasn't. The covenant is confirmed so that denotes something already existing not something new. Christ wasn't instituting any new supper but one that had been in place since Egypt, the Passover, which now Christ is the lamb showing us we no longer need blood sacrifices.

[mizzdy]

For those who believe that Christ the Messiah is the one being talked about here, confirming the covenant, which covenant was he confirming? The Mosaic, Abrahamic covenant?

I don't believe Jesus is being talked about in Daniel 9:27. I believe it is the antichrist whow ill make a peace treaty (covenant with Israel) in the middle of the tribulation.

I do think that the antichrist will come along and set himself up in Jerusalem and show the world how he is able to make peace treaties and calm the fears of the world. When it says in Dan that this person will confirm a covenant, confirm shows that something was already there not something new. The passage before verse 27 are all about the Messiah so couldn't it be a logical read or thought process to think the rest is about Him also? And since there is no more sacrifices going on due to the lack of a temple how would the antichrist bring an end to those sacrifices? From what I understand is that the antichrist will allow the rebuilding of the temple when he makes that treaty. So as I asked could this be a dual prophecy? I still am inclined to believe this is Christ that the whole thing is about.