Ugh, you're so close-minded

[pokemaughan]

Ever used that, atheists? I've heard it here and there. When a believer rejects your views or doesn't explore them, he is 'close-minded'.

Let me tell you why we're close-minded.

Imagine you have a friend, George. You've known this George guy for a good deal of time- you've talked with him, asked him for advice, and you talk to him everyday via phone; but you don't see him because he lives in a far-off country. You've been there for eachother in the good and the bad.

Now imagine a man approaches you saying, "Friend, I believe you're out of your mind! There is no 'George'. I have some evidence I Googled to prove it."

You say, "No, he's quite real. Would like to meet him?"

To which the ageorgist replies, "Preposterous! It's clear from my infallible evidence that this man is a myth. Why don't you just try and see it my way? Look at the evidence. You'll clearly see he doesn't exist."

And you reply, "No thanks, I know he's real. I've known him personally for a good deal of time, I talk to him everyday- I don't care what evidence you have. It's very clear to me he's real."

The ageorgist- "Pah! Well now I see that you're quite looney. You won't consider cold hard facts that are 100% true! Anyone who believes George exists is dumb!"

And that, in a nutshell, is why we won't look at it your way or reconsider. It isn't just a book and some history, it's a relationship.

[MorningGlory]

Pokemaughan, you are awesome! I believe you've written a....parable.

[Trusting Jesus]

You are right! Probably George is right there with you all the time the guy is denying he exists.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[MorningGlory]

I don't have a problem with believing that you know a "George" in a far off country who you speak to on the phone.

However, if you then claim that "George" magically influences the events of your life, knows your thoughts, predicts the future and is going to grant you eternal life after you die, well then you surely can't be surprised that some people are going to doubt you. Any chance you can give me "George's" phone number?

What Pokemaughan wrote was a parable....you SO don't get it! I mean to the point where it would be funny if not for the inevitable outcome.

[artsylady]

However, if you then claim that "George" magically

Why do atheists continually use the word 'magical', when we constantly try to tell you it's supernatural - beyond our knowledge of nature? Is this just your way of being insulting?

influences the events of your life, knows your thoughts, predicts the future and is going to grant you eternal life after you die, well then you surely can't be surprised that some people are going to doubt you

Ever heard of out of body experience? Ever heard of people who are clinically dead who hear the conversations of loved ones in another room in the hospital, come back to life and recount the conversation? Ever heard of scientists going into places where 'ghosts' exist, only to find that during the prescence of the ghost, their equipment measures energy levels and temperature changes? I could go on and on.

Supernatural occurances DO occur and there is no explanation for them. There are many unsolved mysteries and unexplainable phenomenon that occurs daily.

Any chance you can give me "George's" phone number?

Would you try to talk to him if we did?

[Lesta]

Any chance you can give me "George's" phone number?

Matthew 6:9-15.

That was incredibly clever. ^^

[Lesta]

I have told Christians who refuse to listen to my reasoning that they are close minded, but only because I listen to their reasoning with an open mind.

If an Atheist refuses to listen to the reasoning of a Christian, that Atheist is also close-minded.

However, I think your comparison of 'George' and 'God' is lacking.

If I thought i had a friend named George and I called him all the time while talking to him about my problems, my life and so on...but he never talked back, I wouldn't be so sure he exhisted either.

When I talk to my friends on the phone, they talk to me as well.

[Believer1997]

Ever used that, atheists? I've heard it here and there. When a believer rejects your views or doesn't explore them, he is 'close-minded'.

I thank you for the post Pokemaughan. It gives me the opportunity to point out that, to the best of my recollection, I have never told a believer that he or she is closed minded. The reason? Most posters on this site believe they have intimate knowledge of God. If I were to delcare that you were closed minded, when you believe truly that you have intimate knowledge of God, then that opens me to ridicule and to the claim that I am close minded. For this reason I never make the aformentioned claim. Of course you only say that that you have heard it "here and there". That pretty much fits with my observations as well. It may be that most atheists try to use reasoned arguments intead of innuendo.

Hello Hitchey,

I hope you are well... just popped in to say hi. Bless you!

[Lesta]

I have told Christians who refuse to listen to my reasoning that they are close minded, but only because I listen to their reasoning with an open mind.

It's a slippery slope. The other person never sees that they are being close minded. I have been told that I was close minded, though I couldn't see it at all. I guess my point is that the assertion does nothing to further the discussion.

However, I think your comparison of 'George' and 'God' is lacking.

I would agree. Analogies are infrequently perfect.

If I thought i had a friend named George and I called him all the time while talking to him about my problems, my life and so on...but he never talked back, I wouldn't be so sure he exhisted either.

Of course that would be my experience with God, but as you may have seen in the thread Talking with God, the experience of many here is that they have been answered. If George never spoke to you then you might soon stop calling him, but the experience of many here is that George does speak to them. How do we account for that? And if he does give RSVPs to some then of course they will listen.

Oh, and by the way, hello Lesta. Welcome to the forum.

Right. But what I meant was that he usually doesn't speak to them directly. I do see what you mean though.

Thanks for the welcome. Thanks for having me.

[artsylady]

Saying 'magical' is somewhat disparaging, I agree, though I too have used it. Do you recall the the Greek myth of the poor elderly couple who offered two strangers refreshing milk from their picther, even though they had barely enough for themselves. The two strangers turned out to be Zeus and Hermes, and in reward for the old couples' kindness the gods magically altered the pitcher so that it continuously refilled itself. Now I didn't have to say magically. I could have said the gods supernaturally altered the pitcher, but the two words can be used interchangeably. Certainly the pitcher became a magic pitcher, did it not?

No one believes in Greek mythology anymore and they very well have used the word "magical". I wouldn't be offended had you used this to describe an event from greek mythology.

However, when you are speaking of the Bible, the word magic is never used in a postive context.

Miracles are different than magical. Supernatural is different than magical. I think when people use the word 'magical' to describe events in our lives, or stories from the Word of God, they use the word purposely to be insulting.

Now think of the story in which Jesus turns water into wine. If that act had not been reported in scripture, but was known only from Greek antiquity, I doubt you would have a problem calling it magic, if Hermes had been the one to turn the water into wine.

Correct, and in the days right after Jesus, a writer outside of the Bible did say that Jesus had been to Egypt where he recieved his 'magical powers". But that writer, in that day and age, wasn't being insulting. The word supernatural probably didn't exist and magical was probably the only word he could come up with to describe the events he had heard about.

If I have time, I'll look up supernatural occurance that have no 'natural' answers.

Surely you know that medical miracles occur often today - wherein there is no natural answer for the healing.