Pittsburgh Cop Killer Feared Obama Gun Ban

[Believer1997]

I was purchasing a .22 calibre rabbit gun in a shop a year or so ago, when a man came in, who I recognized. He had been a client in a facility I worked at. A facility for the chronically mentally ill.

On his meds, he was pretty normal and functional. But he was goofy enough to stop taking his meds periodically, and became pretty delusional after a while. He had never expressed a desire even when quite 'off the beam' to hurt people. He never mentioned having homocidal ideations, although he would hurt himself by smoking his cigarettes down to the nub, where they actually burnt his fingers, and left nasty, 3rd degree burns. With his meds however,he was, as I said, pretty normal. At the gun shop as he picked out a gun, he was nervous and odd, but not 'talking to invisible friends' or anything like that. He could, I suppose, have filled out the requisite forms, lied about his psychotropic meds and gotten a gun. But the clerk eventually just told him "I'm not comfortable selling you a gun right now. You seem agitated, so I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

The man shrugged, said a couple of bad words, and left. The owner of the shop came over and congratulated the clerk! That's the only gun shop I'll go to now. In fact I have since bought my bird gun and a .22 target pistol there.

We must all be vigilant.

amen leonard

Leonard,

Thank God the clerk "sensed something" about this man. I wish all gun shops were as vigilant in their observations.

[Believer1997]

I was purchasing a .22 calibre rabbit gun in a shop a year or so ago, when a man came in, who I recognized. He had been a client in a facility I worked at. A facility for the chronically mentally ill.

On his meds, he was pretty normal and functional. But he was goofy enough to stop taking his meds periodically, and became pretty delusional after a while. He had never expressed a desire even when quite 'off the beam' to hurt people. He never mentioned having homocidal ideations, although he would hurt himself by smoking his cigarettes down to the nub, where they actually burnt his fingers, and left nasty, 3rd degree burns. With his meds however,he was, as I said, pretty normal. At the gun shop as he picked out a gun, he was nervous and odd, but not 'talking to invisible friends' or anything like that. He could, I suppose, have filled out the requisite forms, lied about his psychotropic meds and gotten a gun. But the clerk eventually just told him "I'm not comfortable selling you a gun right now. You seem agitated, so I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

The man shrugged, said a couple of bad words, and left. The owner of the shop came over and congratulated the clerk! That's the only gun shop I'll go to now. In fact I have since bought my bird gun and a .22 target pistol there.

We must all be vigilant.

amen leonard

Leonard,

Thank God the clerk "sensed something" about this man. I wish all gun shops were as vigilant in their observations.

[Believer1997]

not all "mentally ill" people are crazed killers. there are people who have had the same diagnosis as the VT killer who have never killed a soul in their life--nor ever would. more homocides are committed in this country by people who have never been on meds and have never been diagnosed with a mental illness than there are those who have. if you want the government to step in and predict who will become a killer and who won't, and either grant or deny the right to arm themselves because of that prediction, i think you're asking for the disarmament of this country. given an inch, the government takes a mile.

you have more to fear from those who don't seek medical treatment (and so in your opinion may have easy access to guns) than you do the ones who do (whom you imply are not fit to protect themselves with firearms). there can be no weeding out, because there can be no predictions. if you want to take all the guns away from the "mentally ill" just in case... well, that's kind of a WWII Germany thing, ain't it?

Ya know... Charitow...when you're right you're right. Yep - Give Everybody a Gun. I don't care who they are or how competent or not.. Give 'em all a gun. Doesn't matter any more. By the way, I just sit and listen to a close friend who lost her only son at the VT massacre. Now, she has a little different outlook on who should have them or not - but, I think you're right. ANYBODY who wants one - should get it. It's our right!! Blessings to ya!! and Keep your powder dry!!!

The problem with the whole mentally competent argument is if you make it where someone with "mental problems" can't purchase a gun, you will have people denied their Constitutional rights that would never harm anyone. For instance, what if you have a person who gets depressed and goes for treatment? They are treated and get better, but forever have it in their records they once sought treatment for depression. They could be denied the right to buy a gun. This would lead to people deciding not to get treatment that need it. I would rather get rid of gun control laws and allow everyone access to them. Criminals will always find a way to get them anyway. There is a huge black market for guns.

The solution to things like what happened at VT is to have security officers on each campus with guns to take care of nut jobs shooting up the place quickly. The times have changed, and there seem to be more random killings today than in the past. It has become a way of life, and there is no way to stop it. As such, having a heavily armed public, capable of defending itself is the best solution.

Yep - again - You guys are right. Anyone, anywhere should be able to buy a gun. No gun control - no access laws - let everyone just have 'em. You guys have thought this out and obviously people who are on psychiotropic medications always take them and are always responsible - so why shouldn't they have guns?? And on campuses as huge as VT - it was just silly that those officers weren't able to get there quickly enough - yeah you are absolutely correct. Guns need to be much more accessible and easy to get and with no gun control laws. Let's arm our public at large. Everybody gets a gun.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

The ironic thing is that this is the conversation that the left in this Nation wants you to have every time that one of these situations crop up.

There are more than plentiful gun control laws on the books in this Nation. You can't even own a gun in the Nations Capital yet gun crimes happen there all the time.

Individual Liberty trumps Governmental control every time.

Peace,

Dave

[forrestkc]

The problem with the whole mentally competent argument is if you make it where someone with "mental problems" can't purchase a gun, you will have people denied their Constitutional rights that would never harm anyone. For instance, what if you have a person who gets depressed and goes for treatment? They are treated and get better, but forever have it in their records they once sought treatment for depression. They could be denied the right to buy a gun.

I don't think anyone is arguing that someone who sought treatment for depression should be denied the right to buy a gun. Instead, what people are arguing is that if someone is diagnosed as psychotic, their doctor should be able to petition the government to have that individual's ability to purchase a firearm suspended.

Its a delicate balance for sure, but as I stated earlier, what is the difference in this, and criminalizing drunk driving? Yes, the vast majority of psychotics do not go out and murder people, but the vast majority of drunk drivers don't kill people either.

[redwing]

Anyone remember Joseph Wesbecker? He was a man that warned a number of his friends and co-wokers that he was going to " get revenge on the plant where he had worked and some of his co-workers". People just laughed it off saying " that's just Rocky (his nick name) talking.

They were wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Wesbecker

[Axxman]

I haven't seen one thing about this guy being mentally ill. However, I did see a picture of him and he has a "Warbird" tattoo all the way acrossed his chest. Bet you anything he's AT LEAST a white supremacist. This guy should have been dragged to the middle of the street, in plain view of the camera's and executed.

This guy will be used as a liberal prop for gun-control and anti-right wing propaganda!

[Gauntlet]

The Virginia Tech killer didn't tell them he was on drugs for psychosis or had been hospitalized..... It was a horrible tragedy. His actions should not affect people who are responsible gun owners... there must be a way to weed out the mentally ill from getting guns. I don't know what the answer is.

How about psych evals for would-be gun owners? Americans, get your priorities in order and then maybe we won't see as many stupid senseless unnecesary deaths. Unfortunately, no one can legislate morality. No one is obligated by law to understand the value of human life. No one is legally obligated to value human life.

What a bummer.

[Gauntlet]

I haven't seen one thing about this guy being mentally ill. However, I did see a picture of him and he has a "Warbird" tattoo all the way acrossed his chest. Bet you anything he's AT LEAST a white supremacist. This guy should have been dragged to the middle of the street, in plain view of the camera's and executed.

This guy will be used as a liberal prop for gun-control and anti-right wing propaganda!

And rightfully so.

I'm left wondering what kind of gun Jesus would use ...

[forrestkc]

They should make gun control like cars. You have to go register them every year. Pay a small fee, maybe 3 dollars a weapon to keep it. If you sell it you have to go to the local gun registry with the person that is buying it and they get fingerprinted. Then when they come back ok the gun can be tranferred over to them. If you sell a gun without the proper documents and a body comes up on it...you can go to jail. O yeah. Before a person gets to use the gun, it should first be fired and the forensics of the weapon be on file in a national database...dont know how accurate that would be though.

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

What you are proposing is unconstitutional on a lot of levels.

For one, you have a near absolute right to bear arms. Secondly, you have a right of privacy. Third, if you allow the government to infringe upon these rights with such broad scope, you then open the door to intrusions into other rights, such as freedom of expression, and of the press.

Never exchange liberty for security.