Alcohol

[pokemaughan]

Are you sure?

That's why I said, "as far as I know."

I'm not 100%. He made wine out of water to obey the commandment to Honor thy mother and father... yes. He drank 'fruit of the vine', sure. He never used the word 'wine' when he spoke of drinking anything Himself. He only spoke of wine in other contexts. Yes, He was slandered and called a drunk 'the Son of Man came eating and drinking... glutton and winebibber', but in the context of people also making false claims about John the Baptist. Before Christ was crucified, He was offered wine and refused. As a High Priest, He's commanded not to 'be given to wine' at all.

The only places I clearly see wine being okay is when a person is sickly/dying. (1st Timothy 5:23 and a verse in the last chapter of Proverbs)

And on another note, should I become a pastor, and she a pastor's wife, I don't think it would be proper to drink at all. Deacons and various church leaders are commanded to not 'be given to wine'.

But anyways, I guess the main point is that I feel strongly convicted against it- so even by that merit she shouldn't drink, at least around me, so she doesn't 'cause her brother to stumble' or grieve the Spirit.

I'm open to it being okay, but from what I know thus far it just doesn't seem godly. Maybe I've been misinformed.

She is only 18 now, so according to our laws she's not allowed as is. What is/are the verse/s that command us to follow our leaders and laws?

[Guest man]

What is/are the verse/s that command us to follow our leaders and laws?

Romans 13

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Peter 2

13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord

[MorningGlory]

Something else came to mind.. Drinking kills brain cells. When I was an unbeliver and deceived by the world and it's many shiny new things, my best friend introducted me to drinking.. well it wasn't too long until binge drinking with his other buddies became a common thing when we were out together.

I can tell you right now, my eyes are not the same as they were when I never drank.. its as if it's got a snowy picture effect that is common about TV's which don't have a good signal. It's not so visible but it's there if I'm staring at the wall or something that doesn't move. Also on really bright days if I look at the sky there is a constant billowing black cloud right in the middle of my vision. I had this checked out by an eye doctor twice by two separate physicians and they suggested that my vision is fine but I know its not fine. One suggested I see a specialist just to confirm, I haven't done that just yet.

I haven't drank really in about 2 almost 3 years now, except for one glass of wine this past thanksgiving if my memory serves me correctly. Anyway, drinking little or excessive is a bad way to go..

(btw, I gave myself to Christ around 2.5 years ago)

Blien, you need to see a specialist. Dark spots in your field of vision has a name but I can't recall it....you are way too young to be having such symptoms. Take care of your eyes, brother, because they have to last you another 60 to 70 years, maybe longer!

[pokemaughan]

What is/are the verse/s that command us to follow our leaders and laws?

Romans 13

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Peter 2

13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord

[Blien]

Just saying.. the are consequences to everything! Learn from my mistakes!

[Guest Butero]

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. I don't even believe drinking to excess is a sin. It's what happens when one is under the influence of alcohol that we must question.

If the consumption of alcohol were a sin, then Christ Himself is guilty.

As I stated, it's what we do when we're under the influence. 9 times out of 10, it's not good.

And just so you know, I'm not a drinker.

The Bible tells us not to drink wine in excess, but be filled with the Holy Ghost. It also tells us that no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. I don't even think it is debatable that drinking in excess is wrong. At the same time, I don't know of anything in scripture that forbids drinking any alcohol. The reason I don't drink is because you can't become a drunkard if you stay away from alcohol altogether. In addition to that, I don't like supporting an industry that has done so much harm to so many people. I can see some medicinal uses for alcohol in small amounts, and don't see that as sinful, but I personally can't think of any good reasons to drink. The negatives outweigh the good.

[pokemaughan]

poke, the verses in proverbs are not just talking about giving strong drink to someone who is sick or dying. it also says those in poverty or those of a heavy or bitter heart. and it says so he can "forget" his misery and poverty. one glass of wine won't do that.

your comment that your girlfriend shouldn't drink because you feel strongly about it kind of concerns me for a couple of reasons. why would her drinking cause you to stumble? are you not strong enough to stand on what you believe is right? if that's the case, i think it's something you need to work on--not make her take care of it for you. and are you trying to control her according to your own beliefs? something just doesn't sit quite right. there seems to be more concern about what she should do for you than there was about what is right or what is sin. maybe i read it all wrong. i don't know.

we are not to be led to debauchery, which is what happens when one drinks a lot a lot of the time. proverbs also says that a king shouldn't drink because of the heavy responsibility he has. alcohol effects our decision-making, and those in authority, such as pastors, need to have their wits about them at all times.

there is also the fear that drinking a little, just to try it, will lead to drinking a lot, and hence lead to the debauchery mentioned above. i think you are wise to abstain from it. and it being illegal for you to do so right now, i think it's a no-brainer. submit to the authority over you. i just hope that in 3 years, you will feel the same.

i realize this has kind of mixed messages here. i don't believe it's wrong to drink. i believe that Jesus drank wine at the last supper simply because drinking wine was a common practice (plus the whole wine repressenting the blood thing). the Bible does not forbid drinking wine, but it does give us a devine principle to live by. drinking alcohol on a regular basis doesn't fit in with that principle very well.

I think I've got a huge problem with pride. I know where she's at spiritually, and where I'm at... frankly I'm more 'on fire', so to speak, and she's coasting- so I assume that whenever I try to teach her something, that I'm right and if she argues than she doesn't love God. It's something I battle daily... I jump ahead and assume waaaaaay too much. I think sometimes... a lot of times... I try too hard to 'win' and 'seem' right, instead of swallow my pride and admit when I'm wrong.

I don't know why I feel so strongly about it. I may have been influenced by prior experiences. I'm very aware of how hurtful alcohol can be. So it may simply be that I'm projecting my own hurt and fear onto her in a last-ditch effort to 'protect' her. I imagine, "Why would you want to drink that? It only causes pain." And I see her mother, father, friend and friend's mom all drink pretty regularly- beer and wine. I may perceive this is wrong again because of prior events in my life. I guess my top fear is that Sara will fall into the same track as her mom- more involved with the world than with heaven. Please understand that I love and respect her mother very much- and she realizes that she has a ways to go, like all of us. So when I see Sara's mom do something sketchy, I make note of it. When she cusses, drinks, flies off the handle, talks in a demeaning tone... I try and make a point to Sara to 'don't do that'. I think that's ultimately what it is. I'm afraid that Sara will continue on her current path, so I'm trying to lead her in another direction. More often than not this just results in heartache and stress. I just want her to be a godly woman. That's the bottom line. So I do whatever it is my little pea-brain thinks is right to get her in that direction.

Siiiigh.

[Guest shiloh357]

I personally have no use for alcohol. I don't care for it and I don't have it in my home.

I cannot and will not condemn anyone else who consumes it responsibly and in moderation, but it is not for me.

[Rest is a weapon]

I believe any good thing can have a bad side to it, usually when engaged in to excess. I saw first hand how alcohol contributed to my mothers death. I believe because of watching this I never took up drinking during my youth and middle age. I have in the past 2 years taken interest in good wine. But remain clear on where the line is for me. I believe Jesus drank and enjoyed wine as I do. There is all manor of enticements around us that can, with abuse, become a problem for us. Be it alcoholic beverages, food, or any good thing. But to throw the baby out with the bath water is a shame to me and I believe to God, who created it for our enjoyment.

To set in place a standard that says it is wrong or sin across the board; is like the pharisees that created the fence laws to keep people away from sinful behavior.

Ecclesiastes 9:7-10 has Solomon telling us to enjoy life while we have it. He includes in his description of that enjoyment drinking wine. There are many other examples of Solomon warning of wines other side. 10:17 "For strength and not for drunkenness!"

To me this says if you know your limitations you can enjoy alcohol. It is unfortunate that excess ruins this enjoyment for so many. My son is one of them. I believe his limitation, because of his previous abuses, is to have none at all. None at all for me, is a yoke I don't need to be burdened with. I am of course sensitive to those whom I don't want to cause stumbling. So I would not consume alcohol in front of friends I know have problems with controlling their drinking.

[darkest_red]

I don't believe drinking alcohol is wrong - if it was, why would Jesus have turned water into wine? He wouldn't.

That said, I very rarely drink and never more than a drink or two if I do.