A New Drake Equation?

[Gauntlet]

Mathematically derived evidence is dependent on unattainable precision.

The conclusions presented are specious, at best.

I think I agree, but that aside, what do you think in general about the likelihood of life existing elsewhere?

My response is in haste, however...

The probability of existence of extraterrestrial life is dependent upon our presumptions regarding infinity.

Yes.

[MorningGlory]

Why am I getting nowhere?

Because...if you were succeeding in your efforts to prove your theory, you wouldn't still be posting the same arguments over and over again.

I have presented you with a paradox. You offered no counter proposal. All you gave me earlier were the words, "That's a question only God can answer." In other words you lack an explanation. And yes, I am speculating, but it is speculation that has a basis. So counter my speculation with an explanation that I can't help but agree with.

Yes, I Do lack an explanation. I'M not God.

But it doesn't make sense to you either or you would have offered to correct my misunderstanding. Do you have some other explanation?

Please don't presume to tell me that Scripture doesn't make sense to me. That is patently false. See above.

I guess the biggest (on topic) question I have is the one I asked above. Why do the Christians on this site, as a whole, want to reject the notion of life beyond Earth?

I don't believe they do. I know I certainly don't. Another on topic question is...why do you believe there is life on other planets?

[Gauntlet]

Scripture limits itself to happenings on Earth, for the most part.

[MorningGlory]

I have argued that there is a paradox in the creation story, namely that tiny Earth consumed almost the entire week of creation save for the one day (day 4) on which the rest of the universe was made (ie., the Sun, Moon, stars and presumably, billions of galaxies). I am not saying you don't believe what scripture states, only that you don't have an explanation for this paradox. MorningGlory, it was never my intention that you should take my words as an insult.

I'm not insulted at all. You're right, I don't have an explanation for this paradox you seem to find in Genesis but then you have no convincing argument to support the existence of this paradox either. Neither you nor I have any way of knowing what happened.

I guess you really don't want to discuss it, but it is not fair to say I haven't succeeded in my argument when you haven't overturned it. I guess I am looking for you to say, "Yes Hitchey, your explanation makes sense on a secular level, but it would mean the creation story in Genesis doesn't reflect what actually happened and so I can accept your explanation."

Then, by your reasoning, any argument is successful if no one overturns it? Well then, I contend Sasquatch is a citizen of Canada. I will consider that to be true until you overturn my argument by offering proof that it isn't so.

I accept evolution. If life evolved here then it only makes sense that it also evolved elsewhere. I suspect bacterial life is probably quite common in other star systems. How many civilizations there might be with the capability of space flight, I have no idea, but I think that some must exist. The galaxy is a very big place, and there are billions of galaxies.

Life was created on this planet, and evolved by adapting to changing conditions. Trying to prove that life is an accident and accidentally resulted in beings that worship God is an uphill battle but, if it's that important to you to validate your perceived status as the descendant of BoBo the circus ape, than I say 'Lotsa luck with that'. Even conceding microevolution (God's plan for keeping species viable) that doesn't mean that evolution took place on other planets. How do you know if other planets are subject to the same natural laws as earth? How do you know if the requirements for the beginnings of life are the same? What of the possibility that not everything exists on the same metaphysical plane as earth? The answers to all of life's mysteries could be right in front of us and yet not visible. Your arguments are against the validity of the Bible; they are not FOR anything. To assume that any of us has even a clue as to the eternal plan is naive indeed.

[nebula]

I personally am not opposed to life outside of our planet. But yes there is that unknown of how to make sense of other life with Redemption.

You're saying many Christians wonder why God would create other beings that he would also offer eternal life to, when for centuries they had imagined they were the only ones?

Well, how many times would God have to become "man" (whatever the other planets' equivalents are), suffer, die, and rise again?

You have to admit, it isn't something that can be neatly packed into theology.

Me personally - unless/until sentient life is proven elsewhere, I'm not going to worry about it. But I was trying to help you understand the Christian position, even if you don't agree with it.

But please don't believe the reluctance is about fear, OK? . . . .

I can accept that. People get one paradigm into their heads and it takes awhile for another to win acceptance.

[Fez]

I guess when He comes, and come He will, the last thing on any of our minds is going to be to ask of Him "did you really create everything in 7 days?", or "how old is Your creation?"

That being the case why worry about it now? In Faith we believe, and in Faith we Live.

[MorningGlory]

I guess when He comes, and come He will, the last thing on any of our minds is going to be to ask of Him "did you really create everything in 7 days?", or "how old is Your creation?"

That being the case why worry about it now? In Faith we believe, and in Faith we Live.

For my part I fully accept the current scientific views in astronomy, biology, geology and so on, all of which meet resistance from those who push for a literal understanding of Genesis. I think it is important to continue the debate as it seems that 7 days or 13 billion years is too much of a discrepancy to ignore. I should think everyone would like the truth revealed, though we may not agree what that truth is.

We would all like to know exactly how God created everything and in what time frame. We will know that when it's over and not before. We will NOT be getting the absolute facts from any of the 'ologies'. I believe what you think is important, Hitchey, is to try to chip away at the Bible. It's a futile task and you'll never change even ONE true Christian's mind. Why not, instead, open your mind to the fact that we (as mortals) are NOT in control. We know nothing of why we are here, other than that the Lord put us here. Worshipping science isn't going to save your soul. I will pray for you, Hitchey.

[nebula]

I guess when He comes, and come He will, the last thing on any of our minds is going to be to ask of Him "did you really create everything in 7 days?", or "how old is Your creation?"

Actually, Fez - I have every intention of asking Him about this . . . eventually.

[nebula]

Well, how many times would God have to become "man" (whatever the other planets' equivalents are), suffer, die, and rise again?

Would it matter? If the universe is 13 billion years old then there is ample opportunity to repeat the act, especially if God saw it as a necessary part of his overall plan.

Hitchey -

All I can say is that there are some things that can only be understood with the heart, not with the head.

[nebula]

Cool!