Changing my denomination?

[flja]

There are so many questioning traditional teachings these days. What exactly is it or what traditional teachings are you having problems with? For the most part the many I have known who have gone to the SDAs are in search of sabbath keeping churches who also are looking for more of a '1st century' church type who are keeping the feasts and who feel the commandments are for today.

By insisting that the Sabbath be observed in any particular manner the SDAs willfully violate the purpose of the Sabbath- it was made for man and not the other way around (Mark 2:27). The foundational doctrine for the SdAs violates God

[flja]

The pro-choice thing is a non-starter for me, can't go there.

Yeah, that's pretty heavy duty. That little verse about knowing us while we were being formed in the womb says it all and couldn't be any clearer. Combine that with ultrasound technology and it's a no brainer.

Maybe the prolife movement should mandate that those wanting to go the 'procedure' be shown an ultrasound of the 'fetus'. Do they use ultrasound when performing abortions? Sorry, I'm getting off topic here.

Haven

[Massorite]

Fraught,

These words are taken from the bible they use.

Jude 1:9

CWB - "In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body.'"

That alone should cause you stop your searching and turn your back on this denomination.

OOOOP'S ding,ding,ding,ding. My bell is ringing and my red light is flashing.

[mizzdy]

There are so many questioning traditional teachings these days. What exactly is it or what traditional teachings are you having problems with? For the most part the many I have known who have gone to the SDAs are in search of sabbath keeping churches who also are looking for more of a '1st century' church type who are keeping the feasts and who feel the commandments are for today.

By insisting that the Sabbath be observed in any particular manner the SDAs willfully violate the purpose of the Sabbath- it was made for man and not the other way around (Mark 2:27). The foundational doctrine for the SdAs violates God

[Fraught]

Fraught,

These words are taken from the bible they use.

Jude 1:9

CWB - "In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body.'"

That alone should cause you stop your searching and turn your back on this denomination.

ok. i hadn't heard of CWB - clear word bible, i find it's called. i will check that out. i want to thank all of you here who have pointed out things i didn't know and directions to go in to find out other things.

all your valuable input is appreciated.

[Fraught]

Perhaps i'll be kicked off this forum, but i am truly considering converting to a seventh day adventist church. It will not be an impulsive choice. Here is what has happened:

I have been praying for wisdom and insight for some time. Certain traditional preachings i haven't been able to accept after many many sermons preached in their favor.

Can you explain which

[Arthur Durnan]

I still do not know which "denomination" the Holy Bible puts me in. What "denomination" was the Apostle Paul in? Which was Andrew in? What specific "denomination" did our Matchless Lord & Savior attend during His miracle-working ministries? Why not simply & scripturally be "In Christ" via the imperative of the New Birth of John Chapter Three? Why be shamefully taciturn on this in any way?

[JCISGD]

Hi Fraught, others have already given much good advice so i wouldnt reply except that i too thought of becoming a SDA. I was troubled by the thought that they might be right about the sabbath, as they said the emperor Constantine changed it to sunday when he also forced his army to accept Christ upon threat of punishment, effectively creating a state church and destroying the truth by infiltration.

Part 1

I now know the thoughts i was having was an attack, and that SDA are a cult.

I dont say this lightly and i m posting here as Christians need to know why they are dangerous and to be avoided. Cults such as SDA, JW`s, Mormons etc are becoming very cunning and adjusting their errors to blend in or to counterfeit what true Christians have, therefore decieving many.

Apart from the errors already posted by others, it needs to be clear that SDA`s have gone back to the law as stated in Galations. The law is good but no one is saved by keeping it. They have added to Christ`s salvation by faith and say that you must also keep the sabbath, and they have a heirachy of spiritual disciplines to become holier. They forget that the bible warns about those who "abstain from this and that", trying to be holy by what they put in their mouthes and not as Jesus said, that it is what comes out of the heart that defiles.

I have a sister and an uncle in the SDA, and although nice people they are not saved. I also know what you mean about the deficient preaching that is troubling you, as it is rife here in NZ and is what is known as "Topic preaching". It is not gospel preaching that is suited to the needs of the hearers, warning of sin and exhorting to righteousness. It is dead preaching based on a topic or a formula, or at best teaching for knowledge and at worst self helpism.

The question most needing addressing is their stance on the sabbath. Christians need to arm themselves with the truth about this and not put it in the too hard basket, or shrug it off as a minor annoyance or difference in veiw. There may be a fledgling or decieved Christian sitting in a SDA pew, but SDA is not Christian or even close.

Firstly let me say the 4th commandment to keep the sabbath is binding on all humans as are the other nine, it will never be ok to kill, lie, covet, commit adultery or dishonour our parents, and those who practice such will not enter heaven.

Where the SDA`s are wrong is that the Sabbath is a principle and not a specific day. It means a seventh of, similar to the tithe which means a tenth.

It is also about resting our bodies or minds, which ever we use for our employment, every seven days or a seventh part of every week.

It is more profitable for all to observe this where possible on the same day to reduce noise and unescessary activity, and to provide the most efficient way to bring society together for religious instruction and preaching.

The Sabbath occuring on Saturday was originally given in comemoration of Jesus` work of creation, but it was superceeded by Jesus to comemorate the work of redemption achieved on Sunday when Christ rose from the dead securing the salvation of countless souls and of far greater significance than the creation of the world, which is perishing and will be rolled up like a scroll and tossed away.

[JCISGD]

I have lost too many long posts at the bump of a button, hence i have posted my reply in two parts.

Part 2.

Fraught i dont know where you got thoughts of joining SDA, but i opened myself up to their deception by going to their seminars on last days and denouncing the Roman Catholic Church. I dont hold to their methods but they do have truth mixed with error or else there would be little attraction,but they are right to reject the RCC as it is full of error and blasphemy.

Like all cults they are usually denouncers of others, or how else can they seperate off their flock from the herd. Christians also must denounce error and cults but the difference is that they do not say their local church or denomination is the ONLY Church and the others are lost, as do the RCC, JW`s, Mormons and the SDA who say only Sabbath keeper are Christians. They also follow another prophet after Christ, such as Ellen G White, Joseph Moroni, and Popery.

Act 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul...spoke to them and continued his message untill midnight. (italics mine)

Here is sufficient proof that after Christ`s ressurection and ascension and His probable words to them in private, the disciples met on Sunday to hold communion and hear the gospel expounded by the Apostles, in this case Paul who continued untill midnight. Communion here is synominous with Sabbath ( seventh part) observance but on the first day of their week, known to us as Sunday.

Here in NZ we have a billboard presumably by a SDA member, offering a million dollars for a verse that shows God changed the day from saturday to sunday. It is of course not there, and it is also in ignorance of the many evidences, and natural conclusions from scripture that make a specific verse unecessary. It also only increases the guilt on the rejectors of truth. The Pharisee`s were such and demanded proof, yet Christ gave them none except what they already stumbled on, and proved their unwillingness to honestly heed what truth they already knew.

There are possibly manifold reasons why Gods wisdom prevented Him from making it a commandment or specific verse, but the following are just some that i gleaned from a book "The Heart of Truth" by Charles Finney.

i) God foreknew that the disciples would "turn the world upside down" and that meeting on the Lords Day, the first day of the week, would soon be a iniversal observance, naturally following on as of greater importance than keeping the seventh day.

ii)It gave the disciples ability to preach to two crowds, those in the synogogues on saturday and those gathering on the sunday.

iii) A commandment was not necessary as those who are led by the spirit would move in agreement and did not need commanding.

iv) It would have unfruitfully increased the persecution of the disciples by antagonising the unbelieving Jews who still followed Moses, and would have seen it duty and reason alone to kill Christians despite their many good works and obedience to governmental and moral law.

Where God gives sufficient evidence and proof to obey, it is hard heartedness and rebellion to insist on a command.

Finally while this is certainly not exhaustive of the SDA error and Sabbath change, i hope it is helpful to Christians coming up against their error and deception.

I hope also where i may be in eror or unclear, i be given the chance to clarify before being judged or wrongly accused of being hateful or divisive.

In Christ, your brother

Arthur.

[Arthur Durnan]

And, of course, there is no verse anywhere in Holy Scripture that says "Seventh-day Adventism" is the genuine deal either! Nowhere does the Bible speak about an Ellen Gould Harmon White, founder of SDA, and nowhere does it even mention or hint at, in any way, shape or form her 19th-century cult with its falacious "investigative judgment," its Satan as scapegoat in Leviticus 16," its annihilation-at-death teaching," and its heavy emphasis on the Mosaic covenant & its rituals for today. Why flog a fairly "dead horse" biblically-speaking? No one "changed the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday." The main problkem is that Ellen Gould Harmopn White, founder of SDA in the 19th-century, changed the Lord's Day (on which Jesus arose and which the disciples thus lovingly honored as an integral part of the New Covenant) back into Judaism's Sabbath!!